Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime
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@jetah EvE is not so niche. That game have enough players as far as I know and almost all are the worst players around (griefers).. btw considering that game a PvE one is a big fail ;). It's just PvP. PvE is when you have to not fight players ;).
I would prefer to have none from EVE in this game (well the games I play).
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the game has dungeons, and lots of pve content. pvp is just in the low sec space or null sec space.
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
Neither considered griefing? Do you mean that players will be allowed to act like that without penalities? That's going to be hard work for guilds
One could infiltrate another guild for the purpose of griefing its members or for competitive advantage. Still not against the rules of the game...
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
are we talking about real money/Dynamight Gold here or in-game currency?
In-game currency.
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
First of all I find the 30 minutes restriction too much. More importantly though, here are some questions; OK after 30 minutes I am kicked out, how long till I am able to return? Do I have a debuff not allowing me to return, or I may start preparations returning immediately. When first going to Arboreus, where do I land? When I am kicked out and then return (whether this is after 1 hour or 24 hours) where do I return to? Will I return to the area I was kicked out from?
You're always able to return. There are some default landing points, others you can learn to open, but you can't just go anywhere you like - just a brief explanation here. As for the others things you've said, remember that we can always adjust the type, duration and intensity of maluses / limitations to have things working as planned - that hostile PvP on Arboreus is an exceptional occurrence, not the norm. This will all be defined during Alpha testing!
@garlic said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
Loved this read! So much info. Though I'm interested in knowing if an Angel would be able to live on Tartaros?
Hell no!
@chrightt said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
Now, I can only hope there isn't some main quest or quest that gives very good rewards on specific planets.
There isn't. Quests are not a thing in general for Fractured - aside from a few exceptions like Divine Quests, but you could call that "secondary" :slight_smile:
@chrightt said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
TL;DR While I think Fractured introduces a lot of systems in a nice story/lore format, I also think many rules in Fractured actually restricts a lot of freedom and restricts players according to their race.
That's the trade-off of our system, yes. However, nothing prevents you from having different characters of different races, or playing in a Syndesia-based mixed-guild!
@target said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
What I'm hoping Tartaros will be rich for are big boss-like creatures that drop rare materials.
As the "Hunters & Scavengers" tab in our homepage (which you've mentioned later) suggests, resource gathering goes through PvE on Tartaros much more than in the other planets. And PvE can get really hard there, given the horrors that inhabit the planet. So your guess is 100% correct.
@Phaethonas @Finland mind stopping arguing with each other in half the discussions on the forums?
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@prometheus said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
are we talking about real money/Dynamight Gold here or in-game currency?
In-game currency.
Good to know
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
First of all I find the 30 minutes restriction too much. More importantly though, here are some questions; OK after 30 minutes I am kicked out, how long till I am able to return? Do I have a debuff not allowing me to return, or I may start preparations returning immediately. When first going to Arboreus, where do I land? When I am kicked out and then return (whether this is after 1 hour or 24 hours) where do I return to? Will I return to the area I was kicked out from?
You're always able to return. There are some default landing points, others you can learn to open, but you can't just go anywhere you like - just a brief explanation here. As for the others things you've said, remember that we can always adjust the type, duration and intensity of maluses / limitations to have things working as planned - that hostile PvP on Arboreus is an exceptional occurrence, not the norm. This will all be defined during Alpha testing!
Also good to know.
That said have in mind that many aspects of the economy ("working economy" if you like) won't be clear till players are actually playing the game, with all features/mechanics in play, and start harvesting, crafting, trading, looting etc.
So, even if during Alpha you won't be seeing any of the problems I mentioned, don't think you won't be seeing them when the game will go live. As a matter of fact I would say you will encounter these problems after a few weeks, post launch. So either consider "learning" from other games or having an extensive pre-launch beta. Like an open/free promotional beta for 1 month before release, then wipe everything (if all goes well and no changes are needed) and launch the game. Or something on that line, anyhow.
The important thing is for you to have understood that if you go too harsh on the demons aka FFA pvpers, that would hurt the game.
As I have said so many times, we can't have everything in this life, we can't please everyone, we must make compromises. You can't attract care-bears as well as "gankers" as these two groups want the exact opposite things. As a matter of fact you can't attract either as long as you want both pvpers and pvers. If you have gankers, you won't be able to please non care-bear pvers and if you have care-bear pvers you won't be able to please pvpers who won't mind not "ganking" (non gankers pvpers).
In order for Fractured to work at the very least the following are needed;
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Pvpers to accept that restrictions at pvp will be placed. Each planet will have different set of pvp restrictions.
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Pvers to accept that sometimes they may be killed. Depending where (which planet) they are, these "sometimes" will be "more" or "less" and will be within a different context. But they have to accept that nowhere they will be 100% safe, not even close to 90%, although these numbers are completely arbitrary.
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And finally, you (the devs) to understand that you can't please everyone and all the times. We (the MMO players) want games with identity and not games that will try everything. Games that will try to be both sandbox and themepark, both open world and instanced, etc. Having to reconcile pvp and pve in a functional way is hard enough and there are significant chances that you will fail. If you want to have better chances, you have to draw a line on the sand. And the sooner, the better.
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@target said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
Big bosses that drop rare materials not found at Tartaros otherwise.....the same Tartaros that is an FFA pvp planet? Doubtful
Quoted again from the main site:
Not all resources are fine with being harvested. Fur, hides, bones, carapaces and several other key crafting components can only be obtained through PVE combat. If you’re an avid monster hunter, Tartaros will be your dreamland… or perhaps your worst nightmare.
In my opinion open world PvP is best when you're fighting for something; over a grind spot, to secure a boss kill, over a rare resource, etc. Tartaros can't just be a big pvp arena, there has to be something to do there that isn't hunting other players and sieges. Something to complement the PvP. It's a combat oriented planet and I'm hoping it will have the most rewarding combat oriented resource gathering.
Still I can't see these "fur, hides. carapaces" etc replacing the unique materials Arboreus (or even Syndesia) will have.
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
You have said so yourself!
That was before read the last spotlight. And when I said I want to change was something more like I want let them avoid to fail. I'm giving good feedback to make a longevity game with a good population. Niche games with your wishes are a good way to kill a game. The is not out we have years to test it and give feedback. I think that we can try to have bot kind of payers playign togeter with the right restrinctions.
You still are arguing at changing Fractured while you keep claiming that you don't! Is it so hard for you to understand that Fractured's devs want to make a niche game?!
They outright say that they want to do things others haven't tried as well as things that others have tried and have failed at doing. The whole key concept of three different planets, with three different races, with three different "rulesets", with three different economies is niche!
I have been telling you for quite some time, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that as a friendly suggestion; You are following the wrong game.
Fractured is not the game you like, this is why you want it to be something entirely different. Fractured won't be like GW2, ESO, WoW and other games you have said that are "successful" and whose path you want Fractured to follow. Fractured's devs are thinking out of this box and this was clear from day 1.
So you want to help? Do so within the lines of the game the devs want to make. You are suggesting to them to make a GW2 clone basically. They don't want to make a GW2 clone!
I have never said to remove that needs. You can just travel to gather tho. You are missing the fact that the main purpose is that an not going to arboreus just to kill beasts. Like the purpose to play on Syndesia is the siege. Tartaros is the killing spree.
And I told you so many times that with; a) a ton of debuffs on me, b) the "wildlife"/NPCs hunting me and c) the 30 minute restriction, it is impossible for me to go from point A (spawn point) to point B (where I will gather mats), especially since.....I don't know where point B is! Assuming that after 7 times that I tried to go to Arboreus, I finally found where point B is, I will still have to a) go from point A to point B (which may take 10 minutes of "walking"), b) all the while fight the "wildlife"/NPCs that will be attacking me, c) have a ton of debuffs on me and then finally, actually harvesting, and all that in under 30 minutes!
Have you ever played an MMORPG before? Cause if you describe the above to someone who has, he/she will tell you that this is impossible to be done.
tl;dr Behind the "You can just travel to gather tho" has a context which you are not taking into consideration.
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@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
- And finally, you (the devs) to understand that you can't please everyone and all the times. We (the MMO players) want games with identity and not games that will try everything.
Speak for yourself.
Still I can't see these "fur, hides. carapaces" etc replacing the unique materials Arboreus (or even Syndesia) will have.
The devs have stated before materials won't be strictly better or worse, just different. Who cares that your bow is made from Tartaros bone instead of Arboreus wood when the stats are the same. If anything, the fact that every planet has its own resources makes the economy in Fractured work. If all planets had the same resources, then yes Arboreus would be the easiest place to get those resources. But since Tartaros has its own resources, they will have something unique to offer on the market that the PvE planet doesn't have.
I have been telling you for quite some time, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that as a friendly suggestion; You are following the wrong game.
Considering how hard you're trying to change Fractured, have you ever considered you might be the one following the wrong game? You're telling people "This is how Fractured should be, and because you don't like it, you should leave". You're literally telling people to stop following Fractured because they don't agree with your suggestions, even though your suggestions are just that, suggestions.
And I told you so many times that with; a) a ton of debuffs on me, b) the "wildlife"/NPCs hunting me and c) the 30 minute restriction, it is impossible for me to go from point A (spawn point) to point B (where I will gather mats), especially since.....I don't know where point B is! Assuming that after 7 times that I tried to go to Arboreus, I finally found where point B is, I will still have to a) go from point A to point B (which may take 10 minutes of "walking"), b) all the while fight the "wildlife"/NPCs that will be attacking me, c) have a ton of debuffs on me and then finally, actually harvesting, and all that in under 30 minutes!
It sounds to me that you know things about Fractured's gathering system that we don't know. Care to share?
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@prometheus said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
mind stopping arguing with each other in half the discussions on the forums?
Bit hard cause if I get summoned I love to answer.
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Hello ! First of all thank you @Prometheus for this spotlight which clarifies many questions
and I read very carefully all the comments of this post and it was so interesting that I made popcorn with the debate @phaethonas vs @finland 
me for my part I know that I will play the beastmen because I am more a Pve player, but I have nothing against a little PvP from time to time
so if demons or bad humans come to invade my planet, certainly they will have to do to my planet, to its wild fauna (maybe to its flora too ^ ^) but surely to me too and I would not be the only one to play like that.PS: forgive me for my english ^^
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@Prometheus I see, so more about what we "do" in the world basically. Still, that means races/alignment will make us deviate to our more preferred planets though.
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@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
You still are arguing at changing Fractured while you keep claiming that you don't! Is it so hard for you to understand that Fractured's devs want to make a niche game?!
- I'm just givin my point of view (feedback). I'm allowed to do it. I have not powers to change things.
devs want
- Hard words, I really think that Devs (if they can) would love to make a game more popular as possible. It's everyone's dream to succeed. They are only flying at half height.. luckly. But who knows for the future. The game could please many and soar, consequently be successful. In an early stage LoL was a niche game but look at that now (just an example).
The whole key concept of three different planets, with three different races, with three different "rulesets", with three different economies is niche!
- You are thinking it. A niche game is when it is not very appetizing and there are not many players for that reason. 99% of the times due the Killing Spree/Griefing/Mad Community.
I have been telling you for quite some time, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that as a friendly suggestion; You are following the wrong game.
- I don't think. Have you ever stopped to think a second that maybe that's you?
Quoting @Vengu "Considering how hard you're trying to change Fractured, have you ever considered you might be the one following the wrong game? You're telling people "This is how Fractured should be, and because you don't like it, you should leave". You're literally telling people to stop following Fractured because they don't agree with your suggestions, even though your suggestions are just that, suggestions."
He's right. That (your) is not a good way to let the community grow (Only because someone got a different point of view)! More players/users = more ideas/suggestions/feedbacks = better game (in most cases). More players/users would also help Devs about finances and could guarantee if not simply give more longevity to the game. I have seen too many games explode due to lack of players with the consequent lack of enough income.
Fractured is not the game you like, this is why you want it to be something entirely different. Fractured won't be like GW2, ESO, WoW and other games you have said that are "successful" and whose path you want Fractured to follow. Fractured's devs are thinking out of this box and this was clear from day 1.
- Really? You have no clue about what I like. I hope that Fractured will not be like GW2 (I really don't like GW2). You are failing hard due Devs said form day 1 that Fractured will be a game for both PvPers and PvErs. I'm only giving a good feedback to make it good/funny/enjoyable for my fellows PvErs.
So you want to help? Do so within the lines of the game the devs want to make.
- You are not the one to tell me what to say or what to do. I give my feedback/suggestion and Devs are smart enough to take their own decisions. Neither me or you have any kind of power here.
And I told you so many times that with; a) a ton of debuffs on me, b) the "wildlife"/NPCs hunting me and c) the 30 minute restriction, it is impossible for me to go from point A (spawn point) to point B (where I will gather mats), especially since.....I don't know where point B is! Assuming that after 7 times that I tried to go to Arboreus, I finally found where point B is, I will still have to a) go from point A to point B (which may take 10 minutes of "walking"), b) all the while fight the "wildlife"/NPCs that will be attacking me, c) have a ton of debuffs on me and then finally, actually harvesting, and all that in under 30 minutes!
- I would like to remember this (your words - Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime - post_23177
can already see ways for my demon horde to bring death and destruction at Arboreus. Sure it will require some real planning and team work, but that challenge is very much welcome
For example;
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I have some members of my guild to achieve neutral alignment (neutral demons have been confirmed). Then I send those ahead of the rest of us. They go and put themselves into key positions of the planet and then....
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Evil aligned demons enter Arboreus and start killing and destroying. Sure after 30 minutes those will be kicked out but then.....
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the second wave of evil demons will enter and then the third and the fourth and the fifth, all the while group 1 of the neutral demons will turn "aggresive", then group 2, then group 3.
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Let's assume that I was in the first wave. Depending how easy and "fast" it is to go to Arboreus and whether I will have a debuff or not, I may return.
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Depending the size of my guild or even the alliance of guilds that I am at, demons may have Arboreus at constant siege.
Yes, it requires planning and co-ordination, yes, I won't be there but for a measly 30 minutes, but my presence will be felt for days.
To put it simply; I am willing to bet that the aforementioned strong deterrents will create large and strong demon alliances with sole purpose of bypassing these deterrents. We PvPers will enjoy to play the cat and mouse game with the devs, finding legal ways to make our presence felt.
And now enter evil humans. I will contact large evil human alliances/guild and we will schedule attacks at Arboreus. 01:00 - 04:00 AM I will be sending 8 waves of demons. 04:00 - 08:00 AM the humans will be invading. And thus it is clear that Arboreus is far from safe.
Even if we will have a debuff for 30 days that will not allow us to travel to Arboreus, all "evil" players will band together once per month in order to bring chaos to Arboreus for hours, maybe even days, depending how many "evil" demons and humans are in this "unholy alliance". And be absolutely certain, this "unholy alliance" has just been made, regardless if I play the game or not.
If indeed your goal is to make Arboreus safe, you have only one way to go. Don't allow travel to it for evil and even neutral aligned characters. That of course should be accompanied with Arboreus not having unique resources, in order not to imbalance the economy.
All things considered though (that you want each planet to have unique resources, that you want Arboreus rather safe etc) I'd suggest lowering the deterrents towards the individual player. The more you are trying to stop the individual player to go, explore, Krash Kill N' Destroy, the more these individuals will want to do so and they will try to circumvent your deterrent systems by banding together.
You know what will stop demons from entering Arboreus and wreaking havoc? In-fighting. As long as you won't give the players who want to play in a FFA environment a reason to band together, they won't, and as such they won't be able to do much harm, cause most of the action will be at Tartaros. If you incentivise us to band together, then you will have the opposite effect.
You look so confident when we do not actually have the game to test yet.
Have you ever played an MMORPG before? Cause if you describe the above to someone who has, he/she will tell you that this is impossible to be done.
- I did but prolly different games. I playes as Raid hardcore player on WoW since 2004 to 2014 that just to point out something. To call another game Albion Online. I don't wanna provide list/screenie/acheivements of all games I played.
Behind the "You can just travel to gather tho" has a context which you are not taking into consideration.
- Funny that you said that. You should explain that context you are talking about.
Said this I'm really happy about what I red on the spotlight. I'm just curious to see how those things will work effectively. Until we can test the game I limit myself to hypothesizing the mechanisms because nobody can really judge something that we do not know how it really works. I love to talk about my point of view, give suggestions and feedback. Someone may like those and others not but never tell me to go away just because of my ideas, netiher to not say things that does not suit your point of view.
I hope that none of what I have said may have insulted you in some way. If so, I apologize.
PS: Someone may have enjoyed reading this debate by eating popcorn and others may got bored/annoyed, maybe pissed off to hear us discuss. So I apologize to all of you (Fractured Fellows) for this
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@kiruan bless you. this is exactly what I have been saying.
btw your English is fine, don't apologize for it!
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So many apologies... Are we having dinner at the Royal Court or something?! Loved reading through the debate. It's always good to know different perspectives. Whether you agree with them, or not, even when they are complete bogus, there always is a tiny detail you've missed out and now you have it into consideration for your own master plan. Well, that is unless you're one of them zealous ignorants who "cognitive dissonance" (used as a verb) their way out of any argument. Anyway, point is, the bigger the better!... debate! I was talking about debate, bros. Bear with me!
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@darian I love it so long as we don't turn into children with the name calling.
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I just have a question, what mean TL;DR ? ^^
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@esher said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
TL;DR
TL;DR short for "too long; didn't read", is Internet slang to say that some text being replied to has been ignored because of its length. In slang it can also stand for "Too lazy; didn't read". It is also used as a signifier for a summary of an online post.
In case: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl%3Bdr
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
You still are arguing at changing Fractured while you keep claiming that you don't! Is it so hard for you to understand that Fractured's devs want to make a niche game?!
- I'm just givin my point of view (feedback). I'm allowed to do it. I have not powers to change things.
Sure, but think about it. It is one thing to give your feedback within the lines of a specific project (in this case an MMO) and it is entirely different to say; "You project sucks, make something else which will be entirely different". Which is what you are doing.
devs want
- Hard words, I really think that Devs (if they can) would love to make a game more popular as possible. It's everyone's dream to succeed. They are only flying at half height.. luckly. But who knows for the future. The game could please many and soar, consequently be successful. In an early stage LoL was a niche game but look at that now (just an example)
No, the devs want to make a game with identity. Sure, they want it to be successful and they want it to be played by many people, but primarily, they want to make a game with identity and not a GW2 clone.
You have your priorities backwards (when compared to Fractured's devs).
The whole key concept of three different planets, with three different races, with three different "rulesets", with three different economies is niche!
- You are thinking it. A niche game is when it is not very appetizing and there are not many players for that reason. 99% of the times due the Killing Spree/Griefing/Mad Community.
No, that is not the definition of a niche game.
I have been telling you for quite some time, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that as a friendly suggestion; You are following the wrong game.
- I don't think. Have you ever stopped to think a second that maybe that's you?
Quoting @Vengu "Considering how hard you're trying to change Fractured, have you ever considered you might be the one following the wrong game? You're telling people "This is how Fractured should be, and because you don't like it, you should leave". You're literally telling people to stop following Fractured because they don't agree with your suggestions, even though your suggestions are just that, suggestions."
He's right. That (your) is not a good way to let the community grow (Only because someone got a different point of view)! More players/users = more ideas/suggestions/feedbacks = better game (in most cases). More players/users would also help Devs about finances and could guarantee if not simply give more longevity to the game. I have seen too many games explode due to lack of players with the consequent lack of enough income.
If it was me, I would have wanted and I would have expressed an interest to change the game, I don't want to change the game. You have expressed your disagreement with many and key concepts of the game. And pvp/pve thing aside, you even want this game to have instances!!
Fractured is not the game you like, this is why you want it to be something entirely different. Fractured won't be like GW2, ESO, WoW and other games you have said that are "successful" and whose path you want Fractured to follow. Fractured's devs are thinking out of this box and this was clear from day 1.
- Really? You have no clue about what I like. I hope that Fractured will not be like GW2 (I really don't like GW2). You are failing hard due Devs said form day 1 that Fractured will be a game for both PvPers and PvErs. I'm only giving a good feedback to make it good/funny/enjoyable for my fellows PvErs.
How am I failing hard, because the devs want the game to be for both PvPers and PvErs? You think that I want a pvp game and I came here?
Why would I do that when there are a couple of pure pvp games in the making? As a matter of fact I have already said that came here to pve and not to pvp, because I intend to pvp at Camelot Unchained, which is a pure pvp game.
And I will repeat once more, that according to you, games like WoW, GW2, ESO are successful and that Fractured's devs should go down that route. Niche games are a failure according to you. You have suggested instances because they will attract more people, when the devs don't want instances and they want to revolutionize the sandbox (a niche) MMO genre.
You couldn't have expressed more clearly how much you disagree with what the devs want.
are not what I want (e.g. it will have p2w) I lose interest on the game and move with my life.I have never said that Fractured should be a purely pvp game, as a matter of fact I have numerous times have said the opposite and I have given feedback accordingly. You on the other hand, want a different game. And you disagree with key concepts of Fractured on more things than one.
So you want to help? Do so within the lines of the game the devs want to make.
- You are not the one to tell me what to say or what to do. I give my feedback/suggestion and Devs are smart enough to take their own decisions. Neither me or you have any kind of power here.
Sure, you wanna be the guy who says; "your project sucks, no-one plays sandbox games, make a theme-park" or "your project sucks, no-one likes open world games, you must have instances". OK, be that guy. I won't have a problem with that.
And I told you so many times that with; a) a ton of debuffs on me, b) the "wildlife"/NPCs hunting me and c) the 30 minute restriction, it is impossible for me to go from point A (spawn point) to point B (where I will gather mats), especially since.....I don't know where point B is! Assuming that after 7 times that I tried to go to Arboreus, I finally found where point B is, I will still have to a) go from point A to point B (which may take 10 minutes of "walking"), b) all the while fight the "wildlife"/NPCs that will be attacking me, c) have a ton of debuffs on me and then finally, actually harvesting, and all that in under 30 minutes!
- I would like to remember this (your words - Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime - post_23177
can already see ways for my demon horde to bring death and destruction at Arboreus. Sure it will require some real planning and team work, but that challenge is very much welcome
For example;
-
I have some members of my guild to achieve neutral alignment (neutral demons have been confirmed). Then I send those ahead of the rest of us. They go and put themselves into key positions of the planet and then....
-
Evil aligned demons enter Arboreus and start killing and destroying. Sure after 30 minutes those will be kicked out but then.....
-
the second wave of evil demons will enter and then the third and the fourth and the fifth, all the while group 1 of the neutral demons will turn "aggresive", then group 2, then group 3.
-
Let's assume that I was in the first wave. Depending how easy and "fast" it is to go to Arboreus and whether I will have a debuff or not, I may return.
-
Depending the size of my guild or even the alliance of guilds that I am at, demons may have Arboreus at constant siege.
Yes, it requires planning and co-ordination, yes, I won't be there but for a measly 30 minutes, but my presence will be felt for days.
To put it simply; I am willing to bet that the aforementioned strong deterrents will create large and strong demon alliances with sole purpose of bypassing these deterrents. We PvPers will enjoy to play the cat and mouse game with the devs, finding legal ways to make our presence felt.
And now enter evil humans. I will contact large evil human alliances/guild and we will schedule attacks at Arboreus. 01:00 - 04:00 AM I will be sending 8 waves of demons. 04:00 - 08:00 AM the humans will be invading. And thus it is clear that Arboreus is far from safe.
Even if we will have a debuff for 30 days that will not allow us to travel to Arboreus, all "evil" players will band together once per month in order to bring chaos to Arboreus for hours, maybe even days, depending how many "evil" demons and humans are in this "unholy alliance". And be absolutely certain, this "unholy alliance" has just been made, regardless if I play the game or not.
If indeed your goal is to make Arboreus safe, you have only one way to go. Don't allow travel to it for evil and even neutral aligned characters. That of course should be accompanied with Arboreus not having unique resources, in order not to imbalance the economy.
All things considered though (that you want each planet to have unique resources, that you want Arboreus rather safe etc) I'd suggest lowering the deterrents towards the individual player. The more you are trying to stop the individual player to go, explore, Krash Kill N' Destroy, the more these individuals will want to do so and they will try to circumvent your deterrent systems by banding together.
You know what will stop demons from entering Arboreus and wreaking havoc? In-fighting. As long as you won't give the players who want to play in a FFA environment a reason to band together, they won't, and as such they won't be able to do much harm, cause most of the action will be at Tartaros. If you incentivise us to band together, then you will have the opposite effect.
Yes, and how am I contradicting myself?
In the first case I was talking about myself. I won't be able to go by myself to gather mats at Arboreus for the reasons I explained. This will lead me to try to circumvent that problem by teaming up, which I explained how it will be done in what you quoted.
So bottom line;
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In the context of the three planets with three different economies, demons will want/need to go to Arboreus.
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Demon alone at Arboreus? Can't be done.
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Demons will team up and will circumvent the restrictions we so far know (and work at the individual level). If more restriction are applied (at the group level), Tartaros will just be empty and the game will have failed.
You need balance. You need compromises.
You look so confident when we do not actually have the game to test yet.
Have you ever played an MMORPG before? Cause if you describe the above to someone who has, he/she will tell you that this is impossible to be done.
- I did but prolly different games. I playes as Raid hardcore player on WoW since 2004 to 2014 that just to point out something. To call another game Albion Online. I don't wanna provide list/screenie/acheivements of all games I played.
No please don't. It is clear now why you want Fractured to be something else.
Behind the "You can just travel to gather tho" has a context which you are not taking into consideration.
- Funny that you said that. You should explain that context you are talking about.
I already have. In detail, and it flew way over your head!
PS
I won't even bother with you anymore. Reply if you want, I won't. It is clear now that you neither are paying attention to what is being told to you and that you not only dislike but maybe even hate key concepts of Fractured (e.g. open world, sandbox and balance of pvp/pve).
You want to support financially Fractured when KS starts? OK, so much better for the game and so much worse for you. The game will get its money and you won't get the game you want.
My only hope/wish is for the devs not to listen to you, and anyone else like you for that matter, that clearly and explicitly have expressed their dislike for key concepts they (the devs) are trying to push.
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@kiruan said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
if demons or bad humans come to invade my planet, certainly they will have to do to my planet, to its wild fauna (maybe to its flora too ^ ^) but surely to me too and I would not be the only one to play like that.
I would pay for that (flora NPCs attacking demon(s)). Please make it so.
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@finland Thanks
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@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
Still I can't see these "fur, hides. carapaces" etc replacing the unique materials Arboreus (or even Syndesia) will have.
The devs have stated before materials won't be strictly better or worse, just different. Who cares that your bow is made from Tartaros bone instead of Arboreus wood when the stats are the same. If anything, the fact that every planet has its own resources makes the economy in Fractured work. If all planets had the same resources, then yes Arboreus would be the easiest place to get those resources. But since Tartaros has its own resources, they will have something unique to offer on the market that the PvE planet doesn't have.
Sure, if each each planet's economy is self-sustainable then you will be correct. If my bow is made of "Bone tier 7" which is as strong as "Steel", then, yes there will be no problem.
The problem arises with your assumption that this will be the case.
Although it is not clear at the moment (and it should be clarified, @Prometheus) it is implied that each planet's economy won't be self-sustainable. If each planet's economy was/will be self-sustainable then there is no incentive to move between the planets, a key concept of the game. As travelling between planets is a key concept of the game, it can be assumed that each planet's economy won't be self sustainable.
I have been telling you for quite some time, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that as a friendly suggestion; You are following the wrong game.
Considering how hard you're trying to change Fractured, have you ever considered you might be the one following the wrong game? You're telling people "This is how Fractured should be, and because you don't like it, you should leave". You're literally telling people to stop following Fractured because they don't agree with your suggestions, even though your suggestions are just that, suggestions.
will have or will not have what they are looking for. I am doing that here, I am doing that at Reddit, I am doing that in other places as well.If for example someone asks me; "I want to play arenas/instances pvp, is Fractured good for me?" What do you want me to say? Yes?! Fractured won't have instances! Not even pve instances!
And I told you so many times that with; a) a ton of debuffs on me, b) the "wildlife"/NPCs hunting me and c) the 30 minute restriction, it is impossible for me to go from point A (spawn point) to point B (where I will gather mats), especially since.....I don't know where point B is! Assuming that after 7 times that I tried to go to Arboreus, I finally found where point B is, I will still have to a) go from point A to point B (which may take 10 minutes of "walking"), b) all the while fight the "wildlife"/NPCs that will be attacking me, c) have a ton of debuffs on me and then finally, actually harvesting, and all that in under 30 minutes!
It sounds to me that you know things about Fractured's gathering system that we don't know. Care to share?
What do you mean? I am describing what is already known.
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Debuffs, Arboreus wildlife attacking "evil" players, 30 minute restrictions are confirmed at this spotlight.
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Prometheus confirmed that Arboreus will be Terra Incognita for the other races, including Demons. He also confirmed that initially you will be spawning at pre-determined spawn points. Other spawn points will be becoming available as you reveal them.
It makes sense that these predetermined spawn points won't be inside a forest at which you will be gathering wood. They will be 3 km away, towards the East. As you will be spawning at an unknown area, you have 25% chance of going at the correct direction. So, it is possible that you may be getting further away from the forest, instead of closer, cause you are heading towards the West! In 30 minutes time, assuming that you are still alive, you will be 6 km away from the forest/wood gathering area. As such, you are sent back to Tartaros and then you make preparations to go back at Arboreus. This time you head....North. Well that was a mistake as well. Even if you head East (towards the forest), you may need 40 minutes to walk the distance of 3 km, or you may need just 10 minutes (per se/walking), but as the wildlife is attacking you and you are forced to fight your way through, you will need 40 minutes. Oops, still you didn't reach your target destination. Even if you make it to the forest in 25 minutes, you will only have 5 minutes of grinding wood.
Bottom line is that all these restrictions, combined, are creating a great problem.
There is a key point here; This will be a problem assuming that each planet's economy is not self sustainable. If you are correct and each planet's economy is self sustainable, then there will be no problem.
As I have said before;
The solutions are three;
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remove pvp altogether and make the game only for care bears
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at one planet, plentiful at another) and make all planets equal/same.
3) remove the restrictions at Arboreus, or rather loosen them. Yes, this will drive the care bears away, but as I have said before, not all pvers are care bears.That said, I don't think it makes much sense to have three self sustainable economies and a mechanic of travelling. I don't see the point on that.
PS
#2 is about what I am calling in this comment as "self sustainable economy"
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