Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!
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@TrueCrimsonFTW said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
I do think it should be level based thought. That way new people don't lose stuff right off the start but after a certain level you should suffer!
In EVE, a general rule that every new player learns quickly is to pretend everything you fly is already dead, so don't fly what you cannot afford to lose. In fractured, I imagine it'll be the same for any player who isn't in a large organization that can quickly resupply them with standardized gear, just don't wear what you can't afford to lose.
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I am more going off, no new player likes to constantly regrind and be bullied by other players if they are new. I think this provides a safety net. Again just my opinion.
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@TrueCrimsonFTW except for "new" players they will most likely be in areas where they shouldn't be able to get ganked. At least, I'm fairly sure this is how they will have things set up. (Starter zones)
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@TrueCrimsonFTW said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
I am more going off, no new player likes to constantly regrind and be bullied by other players if they are new. I think this provides a safety net. Again just my opinion.
Well the idea is that it's a harsh world, and it's better that new players learn early to not get attached to any of their gear, rather than later in the game where they craft really expensive gear, and then finally lose it. You can't really set an arbitary cutoff for "new player" vs "veteran". In EVE, usually the earlier a new player dies and loses all their gear, the better (as they learn an important lesson of not flying what they can't afford to lose). Early on dying might only be losing an hour worth of grind, but if they avoid death for a long while, they will eventually die in some ridiculously badly fit ship (in Fractured, this will be the equivalent of bad armor + weapon + skill synergy), and end up as laughing stocks of the community. Vets aren't attached to their ships, and treat them like they're already dead the moment you undock.
This also rewards organizations that have good supply chains, logistics, and is great for the economy as a whole. Because everyone is losing their gear constantly, materials will always have value, and crafters will always have jobs as a result.
EDIT: Also, newbies will have the advantage of numbers, and any organization worth anything will herd them into a large group, and just PvP with 30 newbies vs one or two people with decent gear, kill and loot them. Even if some newbies die, they can just die in horrible gear that can be given out to them for free. I imagine newbies with support skills will be quite useful even if they have no gear at all.
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@Basileus Yeah but saying "bad" gear is relative. To a new player everything is good.
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@TrueCrimsonFTW said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
@Basileus Yeah but saying "bad" gear is relative. To a new player everything is good.
Not really, you spawn with some default gear right? If you spend 20 minutes gathering mats, craft, and then die, the experience learned from dying is more than worth the gear itself. Far better than someone grinding materials in a safe zone for weeks, finally leaving it, then immediately dying and losing 3 weeks worth of grind in under 30 seconds. The more you protect new players, the more you harm them in the long run. Besides, any good organization will just throw low level gear at new players for free, and just lead them around to try and find fun fights to engage in.
EDIT: What would be great though IMO, is to have a tutorial mission give you some really good gear, then force you into a fight where you will 100% die, and lose all your gear with no chance of getting it back. That sort of thing generally teaches players the consequence of death without actually costing them anything. Plus they will of course get some sort of reward upon completion of said tutorial.
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@Basileus It isn't harmful if you tell them when their death protection is up.
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You are just going to have to play to be able to see how things work.
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@TrueCrimsonFTW said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
I do think it should be level based thought. That way new people don't lose stuff right off the start but after a certain level you should suffer!
That won't work in an Isometric game that doesn't use Levels though.
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Okay I think I more meant time or certain check point reached.
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@Basileus said in [Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST
EDIT: What would be great though IMO, is to have a tutorial mission give you some really good gear, then force you into a fight where you will 100% die, and lose all your gear with no chance of getting it back. That sort of thing generally teaches players the consequence of death without actually costing them anything. Plus they will of course get some sort of reward upon completion of said tutorial.
I like this idea.
Maybe combined with "Be save in the first half of the tutorial" while learning the basics, but dying in the end to learn the lesson.
Then new players can get something thats "okay" as starting gear for the "real world" without loosing much and already know how to recreate their gear themself.
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The tutorial system is not what you think it is. It is merely missions for you to do if you choose to. The missions will teach you the basics of the game. You are not obligate to start or complete the tutorial. There is no time line for the tutorial missions to be completed, and you are actually playing the game while on the tutorial missions.
So, if the last mission was to go defeat a dragon.. you would just not do it (if ever) until you were able to defeat a dragon with friends or solo.
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@Ostaff said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
The tutorial system is not what you think it is. It is merely missions for you to do if you choose to. The missions will teach you the basics of the game. You are not obligate to start or complete the tutorial. There is no time line for the tutorial missions to be completed, and you are actually playing the game while on the tutorial missions.
So, if the last mission was to go defeat a dragon.. you would just not do it (if ever) until you were able to defeat a dragon with friends or solo.
Currently the 'missions' as they are probably won't even exist in the final game. In EVE Online in the early days, you used to be given just a starter ship, and then you were thrown out into the world with not a clue as what you were supposed to do. Eventually they made a tutorial system (for multiple different professions, such as combat, mining, exploration, trading and etc), which had a mission that included you getting blown up and losing your ship, while the tutorial NPC told your player character how dying was nothing to be afraid of, and how you'd lose everything you were flying at the time. I believe new player retention increased a great deal after the tutorial missions were released.
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I don't mind heavy penalties because I loved Everquest so I am happy with this death penalty.
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@Zori said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
@SmithyJones said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:
Ok @Zori, it's like telling someone to shoot themselves in the foot to get used to pain... I play online to have fun, not to enjoy crafting every piece of equipment, enhance it, enchant it only to see it puff, go up in smoke in the air because I don't have a group to help me get my body back...
You can complain all you want, doesn't change the fact that you lost your gears that you can literally craft by walking around picking up stones, branches and fibre.
You can even compare it to getting shot in the foot if you want, but that's not going to change the fact that this model has been running for decades with so many games, and that it has been a trope of MMOs.
You can say what you want but that doesn't change the fact that in this game, there will be 3 PVP systems, you happen to be living in one of them where lawful PVP/death has a penalty.
If we're going to use this mentality of "I shouldn't lose equips from dying" then I can yell at you as well and tell you that you shouldn't even die in the first place considering how easy this game is at this point.
You legit can't die if you just pay attention to what you're doing. You can't possibly die if you pay attention to your debuffs and if you have enough stuff to make a fireplace.
It is all your fault that you die as every precaution has been placed to make sure that you don't die.
You came unprepared, and now you're just being whiny cause you lack the ability to prepare.
edit:
i've been sitting here thinking how could you possibly die without PVP, and I just can't wrap my head around it.
There are so many people walking in and out of the vale, even run around as melee against wisps and not die yet somehow you managed to die?
What kind of a self-respecting "crafter" dies cause they don't pay attention to their inventory, debuffs and gears? This thread was a waste of bandwidth.
damn your arrogant. This is not true. Sometimes you just run into a bad place. Plus firepit dosen't remove the death debuff.
I have played quite a bit of mmo's and i can't think of a single one that have similar death punishment.
To me it just does so you don't want to explore and play it so safe. Especialy with that starter quest, where you have to go certain places
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There are multiple MMOs with this kind of death punishment. Some of them are even harsher.
Also, that starter quest clearly indicates that you are not supposed to do it but it is just helping you localize the PvE hotspots.
By the way, getting killed is 100% possible if you lack experience. One mistep is usually all is needed to be put in a situation where you just can't get away.
Losing gear though isn't really that much of an issue, you should keep some spare equip in the bank since it is easy to make.
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@SmithyJones if gear doesn't drop on death you kill the idea of a player just being a crafter and playing the merchant game. you also kill the idea of someone playing a complete outlaw and surviving off what he takes from others. you only see your play style and unfortunately for you this is not a theme park mmorpg where everyone plays the same way and rides the same rides. stock up on money so you can do what you want when you want. if you kill the loss of items you kill the market place in a game where players make the gear. your best bet if you are not willing to adapt is to stay in the safer worlds or move in groups making friends. lastly if that doesn't work there is only every other mmorpg wow clone on the market for you to feel safe in.
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Im feeling a <Naked RP guild> will have the best time!
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Nudist Colony for the WIN!!!
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I have a policy: if I have only 25% of total HP, I leave and regardless of the distance to an Inn I turn tail and ride to it.
I've not died yet and I'm a Mage with only 1800 HP
