Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?



  • Will hit boxes of my toon be dependant on race ? Aka will hitbox of naked human female be just as big as of male hellfire demon / bearkin in full plate with huge pauldrons?

    I mean height doesnt matter, but if my character is 2x wider (and my guess is huge Hellfire demon or half bear beast will have little broader shoulders than magic practicing woman who never lift anything heavier than gromoire), enemy will have easier time hitting me with skillshots.
    This is true in moba games like SMITE where Kumbakharna / Ymir is way bigger than many carries and works as meatshield against ranged. In DotA Rooftrellen / Tiny / Tidehunter are also pretty big (im not sure about their hitboxes however).

    Does race (Hellfire vs human) / gender (male vs female) / armour type (light vs heavy) matter in this regard ? Will human / slim beastmen have advantage over big guys (who will become arrow magnet)?


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    Usually a larger hitbox means you are bit easyer to hit, but it also means your own melee hit range is a bit larger as well. This can be useful for melee schools.

    Not sure how it will be taken cared of in Fractured.



  • @Gothix

    but it also means your own melee hit range is a bit larger as well

    it depends, ARPGs have attack range dependant on weapon (Diablo II) or passives (Path of exile - without passives 160cm witch has same reach as 2 m tall marauder). If your range depended on your size / race, tanky races would have quite the advantage, but not sure it would justify much bigger target on my body vs archers.


  • TF#11 - PROCONSUL

    @asspirin said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    e attack range dependant on weapon (Diablo II) or passives (Path of exile - without passives 160cm witch has same reach as 2 m t

    Seeing as its isometric, and all you have to do is click, I would think that the larger toons would have a wider select radius, and the smaller toons would have a skinnier select radius. However, the height really wouldnt be that much different.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    I didn't pay any attention to this, to be honest, but if size of hitboxes is a thing, shouldn't that also be already noticeable in PvE. Rabbits versus Large Ents like etc?

    I didn't had any trouble hitting/clicking on all kinds of beasts, even the rabbits were easy to hit.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @Yitra said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    I didn't pay any attention to this, to be honest, but if size of hitboxes is a thing, shouldn't that also be already noticeable in PvE. Rabbits versus Large Ents like etc?

    I didn't had any trouble hitting/clicking on all kinds of beasts, even the rabbits were easy to hit.

    While i also didn't had troubles at normal creatures, fighting in groups was much affected by hitboxes.
    In Fractured you have different ways to hit.
    You have several skills that always triggers and that you just need to focus the direction to hit.
    Then you have skills that you have to trigger at a special range.
    And then you have these who need the cursor on the hitbox of the opposite.
    Beside, that i really would like it, if a hitbox of the Entities matter - just to say- the actual system makes hitboxes problematic.
    Two Enemies that are standing close to each other or another player in front of them, can overlap their Hitboxes, if you don't have the hitbox inline to your own view to the Desktop, you can't hit the wanted target, because it is hidden behind your own (player) view. Same happens, if your character technically stands behind the Creature and would have it in perfect line of sight.
    It would be easier, if we would be able to turn our camera. But that will not happen. My idea would be then to change the hitbox target priority depending on the position of the character.



  • @Yitra
    It's not really about having trouble targeting mobs, but about the difficulty of hitting away targets with skillshots. I guess the dragons or huge world bosses won't have the same hitbox as the rabbits.

    @Kralith
    Projectiles should stop in the first collision box they hit. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's a legit tactic for zvz: tanks stay in the frontline and protect the dps by body-blocking skillshots. Anyway, to my understanding, Fractured will have character collision, so 2 characters won't be able to stand on the same tile but imo this only adds more problems, both technically and gameplay-wise.


  • TF#11 - PROCONSUL

    @Razvan said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    @Yitra
    It's not really about having trouble targeting mobs, but about the difficulty of hitting away targets with skillshots. I guess the dragons or huge world bosses won't have the same hitbox as the rabbits.

    @Kralith
    Projectiles should stop in the first collision box they hit. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's a legit tactic for zvz: tanks stay in the frontline and protect the dps by body-blocking skillshots. Anyway, to my understanding, Fractured will have character collision, so 2 characters won't be able to stand on the same tile but imo this only adds more problems, both technically and gameplay-wise.

    (Sees that Warg he has been hunting the longest for) (sadly, a big fat Tart is in front of him) Hey YOU! Move your big fat demon lard buttocks!! I'm trying to get through! (fails to get through as he is just unable to get that big o' angry demon tank out of his path)

    Next Scenerio....

    Ostaff is sneakly invis walking across the bridge over the large vale, he closes in on his prey. He takes this time to give thanks to the Gods that be and....
    right before he makes his stab, Leroy Jenkins comes running down the bridge knocking poor Ostaff OFF the bridge into the big vat below!!! ARRRRRGGG!!!! Spoiled again!!!!


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @Razvan said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    @Kralith
    Projectiles should stop in the first collision box they hit. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's a legit tactic for zvz: tanks stay in the frontline and protect the dps by body-blocking skillshots. Anyway, to my understanding, Fractured will have character collision, so 2 characters won't be able to stand on the same tile but imo this only adds more problems, both technically and gameplay-wise.

    I am going totally with you.
    But for now the decision, what is in front is made by players view, not where the character itself is standing. That means if you as a tank is standing in front of my players view, but my character is standing on the other side directly at the enemy game wise, i can‘t hit it. That doesn‘t make sense.
    I am very up for a body collision tanking mechanism, but it should not just depend on what you as a player is seeing.
    It always should depending on characters view/position.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @Ostaff said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    Ostaff is sneakly invis walking across the bridge over the large vale, he closes in on his prey. He takes this time to give thanks to the Gods that be and....
    right before he makes his stab, Leroy Jenkins comes running down the bridge knocking poor Ostaff OFF the bridge into the big vat below!!! ARRRRRGGG!!!! Spoiled again!!!!

    Point of the story.. don't take too much of your time to think. 😄 Also, pay attention to your surroundings, and you may notice Leroy coming your way, way before he can ruin your plans. 😉

    I also agree with Kralith, using collision mechanics, everything should be caluclated from the aspect of characters view/position. It only makes sense like that.

    TBH, I am totally for collision mechanics, if it will be possible to implement it properly, because it adds an extra layer of tactics to gameplay, which can only be a good thing. And it also partly helps against fighting the zergs. It would definitely be harder to fight them without collision mechanics.

    About potential griefing using collison mechanics (what we have clearly seen in many games, for example, ArcheAge, cart blocking)... just add a popular "sneak mechanic", where when you activate "sneak mode" you turn off colision mechanics for yourself, but your movement speed gets reduced. So if you are collision "griefed" on your home door, for example, or anywhere else, just activate sneak mode, pass through.

    Speed reduction is there so people can't exploit "no collision" in combat, it's a penalty that makes sure, when your collision is "off", you get another disadvantage to balance for that.

    It could potentially even make another layer of strategy planning in combat...



  • @Gothix said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    And it also partly helps against fighting the zergs. It would definitely be harder to fight them without collision mechanics.

    How exactly? If there is a collision, aoe spells can only hit so many people on both sides. If there's no collision, a properly coordinated tank pull + DPS aoe can take out an entire group regardless of size.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @Razvan said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    @Gothix said in Hitboxes depending on size of player characters ?:

    And it also partly helps against fighting the zergs. It would definitely be harder to fight them without collision mechanics.

    How exactly? If there is a collision, aoe spells can only hit so many people on both sides. If there's no collision, a properly coordinated tank pull + DPS aoe can take out an entire group regardless of size.

    Collision mechanics makes it not possible for 3000 people at once to pass through narrow terrian, they collide with each other and can only pass few at a time. This makes it possible to find tactical points in terrain to hold off zergs, and nuke them inside hotspots.

    If 3000 people pass through 10x10 pixels at once, zergs can move at much faster rates, and there is no holding off (no you will not be able to nuke them all at once there, that's just wishful thinking). 🙂 Them not being able to move all at once is much greater disadvantage to them.



  • @Gothix
    First of all, the game won't be playable with anything close to 3000 players on the same screen because the complexity grows exponentially.

    no you will not be able to nuke them all at once there

    It's a legit strategy in Albion and pretty much the only thing that gives small zergs a chance to take on considerably bigger ones. With collision on, instead of pulling everyone in the same spot, they will be one next to eachother, and instead of hitting everyone, the aoe can only hit a limited number of people, so you kill some and then you're a sitting duck on CD - no amount of enemy error can make a big zerg lose to a small zerg in this case.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    Yes they will be one next to another and competely stuck in terrain, unable to move anywehere.
    You can kite them through terrain and pick em off, slowly.

    Smart zergs will not hold all people in same spot anyway, for you to nuke them all at once. they will at least have several concentrated groups, and move quickly one through another around.

    While with collision, if they bring too many people, they will just be stuck one next to another, impossible to manuver properly, impossible to avoid projectiles etc. hard time hunting smaller groups that kite them around through terrain.



  • @Gothix
    Ok
    alt text
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P68_Ks0ovm4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RZINwzceRE


    You can't kite groups of people in a game with burst healing. You need to engage and do burst damage.

    With collision you can't clamp big groups and drop aoe on them. You kill whoever is in front (most likely, the tanks, which will absorb the damage) and then you're on cooldowns while they run you over. No collision doesn't mean that small zergs can take on big zergs, but at least they have a chance to exploit enemy error or to defend themselves on a chokepoint.



  • @Razvan But it sure depends on terrain around big cities (which will be targeted by demons during eclipses).

    or to defend themselves on a chokepoint.

    Wonder if devs will create tight places for defence or leave the battlefield open (or whether the governor can customize the defence of his city by building another walls / wolf traps or creating the choke points himself).

    My point however was rather about being bigger target due to character size than collision (which sure is important, but I hope the game will not become another aoe spam carnage).

    Concerning collision - what about pets? One can have up to 3 of them, will they block enemy/teammates as well? If they do there might be quite a mess in big zerg. If more petmasters get into fight everyone is blocked. And if they have no collision they dont serve their purpose as meat tanks.


Log in to reply
 

Copyright © 2020 Dynamight Studios Srl | Fractured