How similar to Albion Online?
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Albion was a fail becouse it is an mmo withouth mmo content, in the sense that all territorial fight is around gvg wich exclude 99% of the members of a clan, so outside gvg all people needed to do was grind and do dungeon fights for no real reason, even castle etc was all loot for keep "funding" the gvgers.
This is why it lost 90% of players in 8 months, you cant have 200 man guilds playng for 10 guys that do gvg.
I hope this game will get a lesson from this mistakes, but there is also something albion did well, the combat was fun, mainly skill based and fast , also the hellgate system was interesting, Are going to introduce something like the albion online hell gates?
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@vicious In fact, each planet is PVP, PVP-PVE and PVE mode ,so I think this problem not so.
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That not means anything, you can have pvp planet but nothing to conquer/kill/loot. Depends all on game dynamics and featured.
I already see game with pvp pve world since ultima oline time, trammel-felucca, and is what killed the game becouse you cant both sadisfy pvpers and pveers you gonna always fail on one side or the other.
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@vicious Still to early to tell, since the players even pre alpha yet not experimenting. So we are all waiting for this masterpiece from this Studio.
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@vicious hahhahaha another pker has arrived
what keep up games are carebears tho. PvE is needed somehow because a game with no players is a dead game ;). I doubt you will see things like hellgates here or gvg. In this game you will find siege wars that were missing in albion.
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@finland You cant read? dont you? gvg is why albion is dead, an istanced pvp for a very small minority, I like more massive pvp but need to heave a meaning, conquer castles, territories etc.
hellgate where actually interesting since was high risk/gain pvp on demand, if you didnt like pvp you simply didnt go there
And yes i am a PK, always play pk since Uo 1997, stangely the games i chose during my 22+ years of MMo are also the games that still alive and coincidence? they all full pvp games, Uo, Eve online etc , your "carebear" games all died none gad a lifespan of 15+ 20+ years , i wonder why.......
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@vicious you have no clue you are talking for a minority of players. Gvg were made by hum 15 guilds prolly. The whole disign was a fail. That game forced people to grind and gather more than killing stuff. Fore sure did not die due the gvg. The pick of 140k players was 4/5 of carebears that ragequitted after few hours. For sure I don't want to see top guilds monopolize this game too. Zergs was no sense in albio just a shitty spam of stunlocks and aoe.
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I love this completely unsubstantiated (and completely false) argument thrown around all the time.
Show me some scientific study numbers where it was shown that "those sensitive folks" keep the games alive (lol).
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@gothix niumber are out there just check the player base on games that allow ganking with full loot
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@finland said in How similar to Albion Online?:
@gothix niumber are out there just check the player base on games that allow ganking with full loot
Where? I don't see any numbers?
When you run through the world, does it say above players head does he like PvP or not? And did you count that?
Where is this number you speak of?
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@gothix the numbers of players playing mmorpgs. Active accounts without multi accounts. Not gonna argue again about this topic. But PvErs are way more that PvPers and Griefers/Pkers are a really niche part. I said the same thing on albion 1 year ago and the game is not going well kinda empty. I don't fuck care to play a mmorpg that looks like a single player game cause there are no players around.
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@finland said in How similar to Albion Online?:
@gothix the numbers of players playing mmorpgs. Active accounts without multi accounts. Not gonna argue again about this topic. But PvErs are way more that PvPers and Griefers/Pkers are a really niche part.
So take a look at Eve Online then.
The point is that most MMOs get designed more towards PvE, with all the PK punishment that PvE players always cry for. And then of course when those MMOs release, PvP players go and play something else that has an actual PvP. This is why MMOs that get designed for PvE, get played more by PvE players. It's a closed circle.
MMO that would get a nice design with nicely designed PvP that's not punished, will get played by a great number of PvP players.
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@gothix EvE is the only one. Players will move out from there and will spread around. If you spread players from other games like FF, WOW, Gw2, ESO you will notice different numbers. I'm sorry but wow alone got 100 times the player base of every gankbox together. This means everything about the wishes of the players around the world.
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@gothix said in How similar to Albion Online?:
@finland said in How similar to Albion Online?:
@gothix the numbers of players playing mmorpgs. Active accounts without multi accounts. Not gonna argue again about this topic. But PvErs are way more that PvPers and Griefers/Pkers are a really niche part.
So take a look at Eve Online then.
The point is that most MMOs get designed more towards PvE, with all the PK punishment that PvE players always cry for. And then of course when those MMOs release, PvP players go and play something else that has an actual PvP. This is why MMOs that get designed for PvE, get played more by PvE players. It's a closed circle.
MMO that would get a nice design with nicely designed PvP that's not punished, will get played by a great number of PvP players.
Practically every full loot pvp gankbox is dead or down to a handful of players. EVE Online is the only exception and even there a lot of people live in high-sec. There's a good reason the devs decided to add a PvE planet to Fractured.
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@vicious said in How similar to Albion Online?:
@finland You cant read? dont you? gvg is why albion is dead, an istanced pvp for a very small minority, I like more massive pvp but need to heave a meaning, conquer castles, territories etc.
hellgate where actually interesting since was high risk/gain pvp on demand, if you didnt like pvp you simply didnt go there
And yes i am a PK, always play pk since Uo 1997, stangely the games i chose during my 22+ years of MMo are also the games that still alive and coincidence? they all full pvp games, Uo, Eve online etc , your "carebear" games all died none gad a lifespan of 15+ 20+ years , i wonder why.......
You've been playing Ultima Online since '97, huh?
Then surely you're familiar with how UO gradually made PKing and item drop on death irrelevant in order to stay alive by better appealing to casual players?
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@fibs to add, they added a whole new pve zone to stay alive. Gordon talked about it on the Crowfall forums.
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We get hella planets bro
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Albion just simply wasn't fun at all. Everything you did was boring, from the combat to the grinding to the crafting to the dungeons.
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@fibs Yup thats when the game died, after t2a , the more you dumb down your game the more people you gonna get but also the less they stick around, becouse game become simpler less challenging and unless you have an incredible end game not many gonna remain.
Uo pop dropped by 50% when they did trammel-felucca (pvp world pve world) then another 20%-30% with age of shadows, and even more when they introduced insurance for equip
Star wars galaxy was going well , then they did NGE, simplify the game the grind the classes, les punishment , it lost 80% of players in 6 months.
I can go on and on with examples like that
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@vicious said in How similar to Albion Online?:
Uo pop dropped by 50% when they did trammel-felucca (pvp world pve world) then another 20%-30% with age of shadows, and even more when they introduced insurance for equip
You've got it backwards. Ultima Online's problem was not that it became a casual game; it's that it absolutely never did.
Ultima Online was originally designed very thoroughly as a hardcore game, regardless of whether you were a PKer or not. Its mechanics are complex and frequently not directly shown to the player.
This already marked the game's (slow, eventual) doom, as they noticed with their player base slowly dwindling. Old players were leaving but no new players were showing up, because the learning curve and the open PK environment harshly discouraged new players.
So they tried to force the game to be what it wasn't (casual). That would have worked out just fine, if they had succeeded, but they were trying to sell a chili dog dressed as a salad. After all their clumsy changes UO was still not a casual game, so it didn't appeal to casual gamers, and it ruined all the hardcore mechanics, so it no longer appealed to hardcore gamers. That is, it no longer appealed to anybody and so nobody played it.
The game would still have eventually died because hardcore and/or open PK games discourage new blood from joining. It just died faster when they botched the surgery. It would've been smarter to make a new game entirely and run both to their natural conclusions.
Fractured won't have this problem, because you will not be forced into an open PK environment as a new character, and because the power gap between a new character and an experienced one is much lower than in UO anyway.
Star wars galaxy was going well , then they did NGE, simplify the game the grind the classes, les punishment , it lost 80% of players in 6 months.
Oh boy, you're going for that can of worms?
Star Wars Galaxy lost a huge chunk of its playerbase overnight, and here's the actual reason why.
Remember when everybody absolutely hated "midichlorians" and how they de-magical-ized the Force? In the original Star Wars Galaxy, Jedi were implemented but the players were never told how to become one, and everybody loved that. You just explored the game world hoping one day you'd tap the Force and become a Jedi - or you didn't, and became a doctor and/or danced on street corners for money, because it's not like everybody was a godlike Jedi and you had to compete with them. It was expected to take nine years for a single Jedi to show up, and so nobody paid the idea any mind because it was basically an urban myth, the way Jedi were supposed to be in the lore.
... and then two years into the game - before NGE mind you - LucasArts wanted some quick cash by hyping up Jedi so they added a hint system on how to become a Jedi and the game quickly devolved into min-maxing to become the Best Jedi. No more exploration, no more varied professions, everybody just went straight for Jedi immediately. Not only was it no longer a mystery, but it was no longer rare or valuable or legendary. Even worse, because of the very specific requirements to become a Jedi, people forced themselves to go against their preferred playstyle to chase the Jedi cheese at the end of the maze, so the game devolved into yet another typical grindy MMO instead of a diverse virtual ecosystem. Even if you yourself continued to play the same as before, you wouldn't find anybody else to play with because they were all becoming Jedi.
So how did LucasArts respond to the rapidly growing concern that players were no longer encouraged to explore and participate in the game world on their own terms, i.e. that the game was becoming a linear grindfest?
They made it so players no longer could play their own way.
Earlier I implied that you could become a doctor slash dancer if you wanted. And you could, or just about any other hodge-podge mix of skills you liked, before NGE. With NGE, you were now forced to pick a strict class - one of which was Jedi, the complete and utter antipode to its former elite and secretive nature in the base game. Any and all additional skills got neutered as the entire game became focused on fighting enemies and gaining EXP, like World of Warcraft.
This didn't make the game "more casual" - quite the opposite, it took out everything casual. Rather than choose skills for fun or for roleplay you had to choose them to maximize your combat efficiency.
And just like that, the players vanished overnight. Many demanded refunds, and Sony said they'd get them, and then changed their minds. The bastards.
I can go on and on with examples like that
And I can go on and on about how they are not a case of failing to cater to an entitled minority.
