Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!
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Currently I am going through a set of heavy armor A DAY while tanking legends.
This is far too quickly in my opinion as we all know that heavy armor is quite pricey and time consuming to craft.
Additionally tanks are getting SCREWED!
They are the only players losing durability on their armor while fighting and it needs to change.
Not only should the durability on armor increase 2 to 3 times the amount it currently has but it should also lose durability on armor while attacking.
I know from a realism standpoint it doesn't make too much sense to lose durability on armor just form attacking but gameplay & balance is a thousand times more important than realism.
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Poor tank! But, to play demon's advocate...
...in a 1on1 with a Legendary Boss, realistically, a fighter would expect their armor to get pretty trashed, I'd think. even if there are mages and rangers fighting at a distance and a bard to buff y'all, the armor is gonna take a lickin'It is a shame that armor can't be repaired. Realistically, it would make sense for there to be a way to repair armor, even if it didn't fix up all the way to its starting stats.
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@PeachMcD said in Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!:
Poor tank! But, to play demon's advocate...
...in a 1on1 with a Legendary Boss, realistically, a fighter would expect their armor to get pretty trashed, I'd think. even if there are mages and rangers fighting at a distance and a bard to buff y'all, the armor is gonna take a lickin'It is a shame that armor can't be repaired. Realistically, it would make sense for there to be a way to repair armor, even if it didn't fix up all the way to its starting stats.
I absolutely agree. It does MAKE SENSE that the armor taking hits would lose more durability. That's the issue. Realism does not make for good balance and gameplay. This is a prime example of that.
Metal armor is both more expensive to make AND it takes more durability damage since you are tanking with it.
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Sill question, have you enchanted with +50 durability?
I noticed it slowed it quite a bit, but I haven't hunted as many legends as you.
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@Jimbolini Ya
Tanking 24/7 make these sets die so quickly.
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The durability issue has been one I've been beating the drum on for a while now. The degrading is tuned waaaaay too high at the moment.
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I agree with this. I feel as though for the current investment and cost of armor, it should not go down so quickly during a fight. Either decrease the cost of getting metal armor and weapons or increase their durability. I prefer the latter.
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I wouldn't even mind a repair option. As long as the repair cost some percentage of the original material cost, not just gold, it would still keep the economy flowing and get rid of having to remake a weapon or armor every few hours. If they add in a small durability increase across the board, and then introduce a repair system like that, I think it could work well.
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@Esoba This could work also. Maybe tie it to the alchemy system like you need oils or certain ingredients to make sword oil or other things.
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Sounds like crafters are going to have alot of action in the game.
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@Nekrage we definitely agree on this, durability loss is too fast now and indeed affects tanks only. We're likely going for a combination take damage / deal damage to trigger durability loss on armor in the future and slow down the deterioration of metal armor.
@Esoba the issue with repairing is that it doesn't take into account the cost of enchantments, that's why it's likely that won't be an option unless we go for something like losing enchantments on repair.
On a... related note, how do you evaluate the durability loss of weapons now?
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Weapons seem to be a bit on the fragile side, but barely inside the acceptable range.
I echo Nekrage thoughts on this though and repeat what I said in my feedback post.
Offensive bonuses should never be tied to armors, because they don't degrade when you attack. You are using the bonuses of the item without impacts on the durability.
I'm against a system where inflicting damage wears down your armor. It's counter intuitive. Just limit defensive buffs to armors and offensive buffs to weapons. That fixes it.
Edit: I do like though that hunting legends trashes equips. It is a group activity which should be vexing on players resources.
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Well a possible solution could be a single skill for warrior like "Defence stance" that put the warrior in a defensive mode where armor value increase by a tot percentage and durability loss is stopped, however any offensive skill is forbidden during this stance, just healing is allowed.
This skill will give chance to a war to be a pure tank, not ruining armor but at same time cannot be used to abuse while farming because cannot do damage (so useless in farming without exploit).
Defensive stance should just consume mana by time and keep aggro of all surrounding monsters for x meters, so a good position is important to avoid pull too many monsters and giving a strategic asset to the skill
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@Prometheus said in Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!:
@Esoba the issue with repairing is that it doesn't take into account the cost of enchantments, that's why it's likely that won't be an option unless we go for something like losing enchantments on repair.
If you repair armor the maximum durability is decreased so that you can repair your armor only 10 times. Every repair cost gold coins - a money sink. Problems solved
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@Prometheus said in Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!:
@Esoba the issue with repairing is that it doesn't take into account the cost of enchantments, that's why it's likely that won't be an option unless we go for something like losing enchantments on repair.
On a... related note, how do you evaluate the durability loss of weapons now?
I think the whole enchantment thing would be easy enough to think through. Heck even if they disappeared with repair that would be fine because those ingredients are going to have a lower ceiling to obtain than the amount of ore it takes to constantly build new weapons.
The problem I kept running into was that a couple hours of killing mobs, and I'm not talking 8-10 but 2ish, and my weapons had substantial damage to the point I would need to carry another one with me if I wanted to go out hunting and killing again. So, while y'all have the actual data in the studio to see these things, it just "feels" off. Even other games where you have to repair frequently, and weapons deteriorate rather quickly, don't seem to have this level of weapon durability loss. And in the end you can still repair in those other games, making that investment to build the weapon pay off for more than a couple hours.
I think another problem will naturally arise, where if weapons are destroying themselves this quickly, and there's anywhere near a large population of people in the game, metal is going to become even more scarce. This will mean a healthy portion of players will be left out of the mix even with basic non-stone weapons. Add in the maintenance changes to cities that make it essential even for very small mining cities to trade way healthy amounts of ore, and its a system where more than a couple people won't be able to get that 2-4 ingots once or twice a day (just for weapons) to actually go out and kill things.
I know people will say right now they're not having problems remaking weapons a couple times during a heavy gameplay session, and I didn't either when there was just a couple of us playing. However, add in thousands more players and suddenly you're gonna have some issues that will block that access even to the most basic metals. Plus, when someone finally saves enough to have one made, and since they can't actually mine the ore themselves out in the wild, they'll have it for a few mob runs and it'll be gone again.
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@Esoba said in Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!:
(...)This will mean a healthy portion of players will be left out of the mix even with basic non-stone weapons(...)
Wasn't that what they mentioned they wanted though? That not everybody had these weapons, which in fact makes them special. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but I thought that was the intention.
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@Logain
I could understand that in regards to some alloys, or some of those exotic metals that are coming. Absolutely true not everyone should have those. However, I'm talking even basic copper weapons/armor. If they indeed mean that even the most fundamentally basic metal gear is meant to be out of reach for many - or most - of the population, and that it would get destroyed in a day or so anyways, I would start having some substantial concerns on the long term viability of the game.
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All I'll say is that the last mmo I played the durability was linked to effectiveness and the items were basically used up in a day and I quit the game. I don't want to play a game where I have to constantly be working to replace gear just so I can have some fun. I agree with items having durability so crafters can be viable, but items need to last days not hours.
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@Esoba said in Durability is depleting WAY too fast + Tanks are getting screwed!:
(...)However, I'm talking even basic copper weapons/armor(...)
'(...)One thing you should really understand is that metal weapon and metal armors are valuable, it's not like in many other games that you've played, where you just craft 1000 plate armors each day, that's not the way it works, you can maybe craft 4 of them in one day if you're really hardcore, because they require several ingots (...)'That's how I understood what Prometheus stated in the video. The question would be, can you play and enjoy the game without metal weapons and armors as a player? May reply would be yes, in this test I didn't have a metal weapon for the first 10 days and I still don't have a metal armor. I didn't solo legendary creatures, but I could kill most normal beasts.
What I would do though is add a 'tier in the middle' where you have the uttermost basic items that you can craft 'on the fly'. Some items that you can craft in your own house, which offer slight benefits and then the full metal items which require a city membership.
