The pvp extreme group, is group of pvpers that do not like competitive pvp. They like to kill easy pickings, whether these are pvers or low level pvpers. Call them gankers, or griefers or as anything else you want. As it stands now, Fractured will not cater to them. Which is good.
You are wrong. DS does not want that and for sure will change restrinctions or debuffs on Arboreus if there will be to easy to pking/ganking/griefing.
You may consider an extreme pvper a pker/griefer, I consider an extreme or to better say hard-core pvper a competitive player.
Oh so, you consider an extreme pvper the competitive pvper and you want Fractured not to cater for them? At what part are you disagreeing with me this time? Semantics? The fact that you want Fractured not to cater to competitive pvpers, when Fractured wants to cater to them? You want Arboreus restrictions to become stricter?
I have told you before, many times, that Fractured will not be a game you will like, hence you are proposing things that are the exact opposite of what the devs want to make, such as the inclusion of instances to an open world, sandbox game!
Your attitude is bordeline toxic. Not to me, not towards other fans, but to the devs themselves!
@phaethonas Humans will do and all brave Beastmen, I'm already gathering/recruiting people under the same banner
Why would good humans go to Arboreus and defend the care bears? And will "brave" beastmen have enough numbers? And will they care to defend their care-bear brethren?
Beastmen guilds designed to protect against attacks (whether by Demons or Humans) and possibly take the fight to them.
As a matter of fact, I was planning at making/participating in such a guild, till I realized that the demons were given the short stick by the devs, in order to cater to the cear bears.
And I will ask again. Who is gonna make the said guild? Who is gonna participate in it? The care bears? Not a chance. The rest of Arboreus population? Perhaps. Will they have the numbers though? And what will the care bears do? Accept that this is the game and move on? Extremely doubtful. They will rage and whine at the forum, that is what they will do. Alas, they are basically doing that now! Imagine what they will do when the first invasion from the "Unholy Alliance" takes place!
As I've said before. Fractured tries to combine pvp and pve. This means that extreme pvpers (call them gankers or otherwise if you like) have no place at this game. But this also means that, extreme pvers (I call them care-bears) also have no place in this game. If the game tries to cater at either of them, the balance is being lost, and the game will ultimately fail.
I'm wondering if you are joking. Tartaros is for extreme pvpers. The problem is only for carebears. We'll se if they have their spot (they must have one) . Asking to FFA everywere is silly. Extreme pvpers that want kill carebears/ gatheres hahaha I call hem spineless. Ambush stile is spineless attitude ;). An invasion looks more like a war and could be funny but the number will make the difference and unbalance the fight prolly.
If fractured were hosted on two servers, one PvE (flag to pvp everywhere but only flagged can be attacked) and one PvP (ffa everywhere without debuffs and restrincions) I wonder if you would play fractured on the PvP server.
It may take 3-4 years for the game to collapse, Dynamight Studios may have made a profit by then, but from a player's perspective? The game will have failed.
I don't know and we'll see. I'm only sure that making games for pkers (givin hem what they want) is a fail.
No I am not joking, and no, I don't want to FFA everywhere.
There are two extreme groups, a pvp extreme group and a pve extreme group.
The pve extreme group are the care bears, who want no pvp at all. Fractured is not for them by definition, unless Fractured's main mechanic is abolished. That mechanic is of course, travelling between the planets.
The pvp extreme group, is group of pvpers that do not like competitive pvp. They like to kill easy pickings, whether these are pvers or low level pvpers. Call them gankers, or griefers or as anything else you want. As it stands now, Fractured will not cater to them. Which is good.
The problem arises, by the fact that as it stands now, there is an effort in order to cater to the cear bears. An effort that will seriously backfire as I have explained in previous comments, at other threads, which you are well aware, so, I don't really have to link them.
The main point is that, by restricting demon travelling to Arboreus (and I should remind here that planet travelling is a main mechanic of Fractured), in order to cater to the cear bears, you imbalance the economy.
I was thinking more in response to a consistent threat from an Evil alliance, which gives the incentive. Granted getting any large number of players together consistently is a challenge in of itself.
Who is gonna make this alliance? The care bears? Extremely doubtful. You know what care bears will do? Start whinning at forums.
Granted, non-care-bear pvers will exist at Arboreus, but will they have the numbers to form such an Alliance?
This is the part where I'm still a bit unclear. Each planet has it's own unique resources; not necessarily better, just different. Is there any incentive for other planets to want said resources and thus potentially creating strife or is this really just 3 games with one engine?
Well, with the game having multiple ways to travel between planets, and these being one of the main selling points, what do you think?
If they wanted 3 games with one engine, then they should have made each planet inaccessible. Then there would be no need for measures and counter-measures, and counter-counter-measures, in order to balance things. Are you a pver (including a care bear)? Your planet is Arboreus. Are you a pvper (including ganker)? Your planet is Tartaros. Are you a pvp/pver (care bears and gankers are excluded)? Your planet is Syndesia. That would be simple, and would work like a charm.
But this is not what we are getting. The devs clearly want to make something more complex, for better or for worse. And judging from the mechanics, this more complex game, is build around travelling between worlds. What is the incentive on that? Different
that will be found only/much easier at Syndesia and [Y] that will be found only/much easier only at Arboreus. Are the beastkin getting 30 minutes at Tartaros though? Nope! Are humans getting 30 minutes at either Tartaros or Arboreus? Nope! As a matter of fact, an evil human will not need to travel to Arboreus in order to get [Y]. The good aligned human will go, and will bring [Y] at Syndesia's market. Then the evil human will just buy it. Will a demon be able to do something similar? Nope!
@phaethonas PvE carebears don't have to worry because a good amount of Arboreus is strictly PvE. Also, Prometheus hinted that a lot of the PvE content on Arboreus will be located in those PvE areas.
Which, if you had read my previous comments (at other threads, admittedly), this is exactly the problem
As I said on those comments, that wouldn't be much of a problem if the economy of each planet was self-sustainable. But Fractured is not build around self-sustainable economies. If that was the case, then the whole "I travel to the other planets" mechanics are unessesary. Instead, Fractured is build around the whole "I travel to the other planets". Also it is said explicitly that Tartaros will have few and basic resources.
It’s a hot, arid world, plagued by a constant volcanic activity and scarce in edible resources. [...] Stone is common on Tartaros – sandstone, granite and obsidian in particular – and frequently used by demons to erect the buildings of their unholy cities. Metals besides iron are rare, but weapons made of the latter have already taken the life of thousands of creatures, in Tartaros and outside. [...] Due to the lack of water, agriculture is practically unfeasible on Tartaros, which forces demons to get most of their food by hunting the fearsome creatures that inhabit the planet. [...] Demons usually wear clothes made of leather crafted from the skin of their preys, since wild plants are also rare to come by – and when they can be found, they’re only suitable to be harvested for wood or hard fibers to make strings and ropes.
It was also implied that demons will have to go to Arboreus to farm.
If you’re Evil and looking to travel to Arboreus to go on a killing spree, you won’t succeed – you’d rather have a clear PvE / gathering objective in mind and complete it as fast as you can!
If a demon was not required to go at Arboreus that phrase has no reason to be there.
I will say again; As long as Fractured wants to cater to both pvpers and pvers, and to do so in a way other than "Arboreus is the pve server", "Tartaros is the pvp server" and "Syndesia is the pvp/pve server" (which apparently is not what the devs want), then extreme pvpers (call them gankers if you wish) and extreme pvers (I call them care bears) should not be catered, as the balance will break.
Yes, I've read the many threads and pages about PvE vs. PvP and it's definitely not only a heated topic but also a hard problem to tackle.
I really like the idea of the potential struggle between races/alignments. I agree with some statements made by @Phaethonas in another thread I read this morning as well - https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/1481/feature-spotlight-6-pvp-alignment-crime/52 - regarding Demons seeing this huge disadvantage as a challenge and alliances being created. But, this is only half the story in my opinion. If such an alliance did form, I could see one being formed on the Good side as well - this could create a very interesting inter-planetary struggle for resources
I doubt that such a "Good" alliance would be formed, and that (such an alliance not forming) would be a problem actually.
If you are right and such a "Good" alliance forms, then the pvpers will have the challenge that we want and the pvers will be protected to a certain, and possibly sufficient degree. The problem though is that, the "good guys" won't be incentivised to form such an alliance. Any "good alliances" formed will be limited at Syndesia, the human planet, and will be formed around politics and dynamics at that planet.
These alliances will have no reason to go to Arboreus and protect the care bears there. The Arboreus players could be split to two categories. The spine-less care bears and those who realize that when you try to marry pve and pvp in an open world environment (as Fractured tries to do), you have to accept that you may be killed at times by that pvper who is roleplaying a "bad guy". The spine-less care bears, won't be able to form nor participate in an Alliance of Good. So who is gonna protect them? Who is gonna rush to support/help them, when they won't be helping themselves? People tend to help other people in need, if the latter (those who are in need of help), are trying to help themselves. So no "Alliance of Good" will be formed at Arboreus, and no "Alliance of Good" formed at Syndesia will bother to protect the care bear beasties.
This will bring unbalance at the game. This will create the exact problem the care bears don't won't to face; being ganked/killed. And it will do so exponentially.
The mechanics that were announced will incentivize the "Bad Guys" to make peace at times and form a necessary alliance that without they won't survive.
As I said, you need mechanics that will keep the demons.....Fractured (pun intended). Instead mechanics that will incentivise demons to band together were announced!
Have no doubt, if I play the game, I will be there and I will be advocating unity. But uniting a large group of people, let alone "wild" pvpers, is not an easy task, under normal circumstances. I doubt that my message of occasional unity will be heard, if the said unity is not needed in order to go and get pine wood. When you won't be able to get pine wood though, you will be willing to listen to my message of this Alliance.
As I've said before. Fractured tries to combine pvp and pve. This means that extreme pvpers (call them gankers or otherwise if you like) have no place at this game. But this also means that, extreme pvers (I call them care-bears) also have no place in this game. If the game tries to cater at either of them, the balance is being lost, and the game will ultimately fail.
It may take 3-4 years for the game to collapse, Dynamight Studios may have made a profit by then, but from a player's perspective? The game will have failed.
@phaethonas what happens when the remaining revenue is lost because x, y and z where ignored?
This is exactly the problem. The game falls apart. But in the process, the dev company is still making money by just catering to the people who care, or even are addicted, to cosmetic lootboxes.
What I am saying is not theoretical. What I am saying is very much happening as we speak. From personal experience I will say that this is happening at SWTOR.
Now, there are examples of successful cosmetic cash shop, there is no doubt about that. The problem though doesn't go away.
Let's make a hypothesis;
Fractured is b2p with a cosmetic cash shop (that much is a fact).
months. Unless Dynamight gathers all new content into an expansion, which will also be b2p (see GW2 model), then this new content will be either; a) not delivered or b) delivered for free.
If not delivered, then (once more as you correctly implied) the game will have a problem. If delivered for free though, where will the revenue come from in order to make this content and keep the servers running? The answer is; "Cosmetic cash shop".
So, in this case, the cosmetic cash shop is bringing revenue, but the new content is not. The cosmetic cash shop will have to pay; a) the new content, b) server upkeep, c) new cosmetic items, which if not introduced, the game will stop making revenue.
Now here is the thing. In the short term it is better to focus at the new cosmetic items and forget about the new pve content. In the long term, the game may survive without new pve content, or rather with minimal pve content (see SWTOR's case). In that case the game is in a limbo, dying, but not dead, so it is still making money from mostly the cosmetic cash shop.
The devs will have to be very very very very [...] very very very very dedicated to their game in order not to fall into that trap. Admittedly an indie studio is more likely to succeed at not falling into that trap, than a multinational like EA/Bioware (SWTOR's case).
That though doesn't guarantee that the indie dev company will succeed.
This is why, probably the best solution for Fractured, considering the correction you made (that pvers will need new content), is the GW2 model.
Both the cosmetic cash shop will bring in revenue, as well as the new pve content.
And that brings two questions.
Will there be new pve content? Is anything regarding that, announced explicitly?
Is it clear, absolutely clear, if possible expansions, will be b2p (GW2 model)? Or will this new content be provided for free?
i don't consider an rng lootbox rng when it's an item gift wrapped.
OK.
Call it what you like.
After all, the whole point is, that many people don't want an RNG element into the cosmetic cash shop.
2 isn't a problem if the cosmetic funds are going to content funds. Bungie created Eververse as a means to trickle rewards to users when in between content patches (or DLC) and made the claim "that use these new items to bolster the service provided by our live team for another full year.". The idea was to take the income and use it on content.
and really the only time i've seen cosmetic sales provide more cosmetics is when the game is dying.
Sure, exceptions are possible, but the rule is that, if [A] brings in revenue, the devs will focus at [A]
1 why would you have a non-rng lootbox.. how.. isn't that just an item in a box, like a gift wrap?
You have a lootbox from which you choose from. Is this a gift wrapped? Yes
2 Fractured is a sandbox but they have raids and dungeons so it's both.
I am not actively recruiting, and I won't do so till the game is ready to launch. After all, I never did say that I would make this guild alliance(s). I said that I am 100% sure that at some point it will happen, if pvp raiding at Arboreus is not laxed
I'm definitely gonna steer away if P2W RNG lootboxes end up in game.
Their cash shop is supposed to be purely cosmetic, as such the RNG lootboxes we are talking about would be like SWTOR hypercrates.
Judging from my SWTOR experience, this kind of lootboxes are a problem for two main reasons
the RNG element
the fact that if a dev company is making money out of cosmetic items (regardless if they are behind an RNG mechanic), the devs will focus at making new cosmetic items instead of making new gameplay content.
Those two said
The RNG element can be bypassed. Basically you can have no lootboxes to begin with, or have lootboxes with no RNG (or reduced RNG).
SWTOR is a theme park. Theme parks need a constant influx of new content. Fractured will be sandbox. At sandbox games, the players are making new content (see "emergent gameplay"). As such a b2p game with purely cosmetic cash shop (without RMT), is something that could succeed.
There is full collision between any type of creature (players included, in the same party and not). SpatialOS makes it possible! However, we might tweak the rules here too. Alpha testing will tell whether it's really feasible on a large scale or not.
if you ignore player collision then people/groups will become 1 death ball. Think of an RTS where you can move 100 units on top of each other. If there's player collision then creating choke points is useful, death balls are less; also still deadly, and would cause tactics to be necessary (at least I'm hoping).
Let me say the exact thing Jetah said in other terminology; full/friendly collision is an anti-zerg mechanic basically. Most players hate zerging. Zerging here is defined as a large group that will always win just because it is larger, in terms of numbers, than their opponents. This is happening at GW2, to state an example. As a result things like, skill, gear/progression and the like are less important than pure numbers.
If you want skill to have a significant role, then you need anti-zerg mechanics, and as I said, full/friendly collision is one, and a very important one.
At the "First Fractured Gameplay Video Released!" post I made some questions arising from the said video. As more questions are arising and some questions are being answered, I gathered the questions and answers here, in order for them to gain visibility.
Questions
Is it possible to zoom in/out and change the camera angle?
I noticed that you were not grouped with the other player. Is grouping possible?
I noticed that there is friendly fire (yahoo!). Was this friendly fire that we saw at the video? Was Uriel being hit/losing endurance because he was targeted by mistake (aka miss-click) or was there real friendly fire, as in if another person is in the line of fire, that person will be hit as well, even if not selected/targeted.
In case grouping and friendly fire are possible, will friendly fire be possible for players within the same group?
I noticed that you bumped on a tree once or twice and once a plant "reacted" when stepped on. The latter is very nice, and shows some good work. Now to the question. What about player collision? Does this exist? Is there a distinction between "friendly" and "enemy" collision (see GW2)?
Supposedly there are "fully interactable environments", mentioned at the site and the gameplay video (I think). Does this mean that those trees and those rocks are "farmable"? For example, will I be getting (pine) wood from a pine tree?
How did you control the character? Both movement and combat wise.
Would it be possible to jump into the water/river and what would have happened then?
Is this procedural generation algorithm, in house tech or did it came with Unity/SpatialOS?
You can zoom but not change the camera angle. The world is built so you don't need it.
Yes, grouping will be possible.
You can group and that removes friendly fire too. We might reconsider this decision though.
There is full collision between any type of creature (players included, in the same party and not). SpatialOS makes it possible! However, we might tweak the rules here too. Alpha testing will tell whether it's really feasible on a large scale or not.
You will be able to mine rocks and chop trees. Also, various skills will interact with the environment. (Ice freezes water, fire burns things, etc).
Yes, they are. That's "just" gathering though, only a part of what "fully interactable environments" means. A lot is related to how you can use the environment in combat - setting it on fire, freezing it, and so on.
Fractured's movement is mouse-based. No WSAD.
Click to move - sometimes keeping the mouse button down, others pathfinding. If you ever played ARPGs like POE or Diablo - it's that!
Swimming is not in the picture so far I'm afraid.
You can read more about procedural generation in the first State of the Game and the sprint recaps.
In house, although it partly relies on external code libraries.
Further Questions (post answer, questions)
Define mouse-based. Are we talking "I press left and right click at the same time" mouse-based, or "point and click" (e.g. Path of Exile) mouse based. Cause I couldn't see any "point and clicking". And i[I]s WSAD out of the question? What about the combat/skills.
So what would have happened if you fell on the water? Would the game stop you in the first place? Would you drown? Would you just walk on top of it?
Explanations/Clarifications
The procedural generation algorithm is "in-house" tech, as stated at the first State of the Game.
SpatialOS gave us the server architecture to create an open world of virtually unlimited scale. That alone is simply amazing, but it solved only half of the problem – we had to figure out ourselves the puzzle of client-side world building. It wasn’t much of a technical issue there, but rather one of game design: how can a small company without an army of level designers pull off such a gargantuan task?
The answer, we knew, was procedural world generation followed by human polishing.
Over the last couple months, we have defined, furiously thrown away and re-defined the world building tools and pipeline in a seemingly endless loop of never-satisfying iterations… until we made it!
Today, I can gladly announce we’re able to quickly generate large portions of maps which perfectly fit the mechanics of an MMO with isometric camera and ARPG combat. Exciting maps, with the detail and variety you’d expect from a AAA production (but made by an indie team). That’s cool, isn’t it?
