Posts made by Miffi

@jetah said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

@miffi

So 'catching up' is now 'getting ahead'? How does someone catch up yet end up beyond others? That doesn't make any sense. Catching up means they are equal to everyone. Although gear might be equal or close that doesn't mean game mechanics are the same. You either pay time grinding in the game or you pay time grinding a job (to use the funds to skip the grind in a game).

Subscription games catered to that 'everyone is equal so long as they played the same amount of time' but that is a dead system. People who wanted to play more but couldn't complained because their friends were getting ahead. If I get ahead of my friends i try to catch them up as best as i can.

Again my friend doesn't have the time to play many hours a week. He might play 5-20 hours a month. To him a pay to catch up isn't p2w because he isn't guaranteed to win.

Just because he is not guaranteed to win doesnt mean the concept isnt paying to win. You can have all the advantage in the world, and if you arent skilled enough you will still lose. But the premise behind being able to have an unlimited influx of in game currency because you can continuously buy and sell cosmetics is paying to win at its core. Thats how one 'gets ahead'. Whether your friends does it or not is not the problem. Its as a whole the mechanic is based on who can spend the most money. When you argue grinding work as opposed to playing the game, it just reiterates about need to find a different genre of game. MMO's arent for you if you cant accept that you wont be able to keep up with top tier. Very few can. When someone can skip content and get ahead purely by paying, it makes playing the game pointless. Especially in this game where progression is exploration!

You most likely wont agree with me, thats all good. I wont with you but we already had an answer from the dev's so realistically this convo is pointless lol.

@Jetah Just because something works doesnt mean its the right way to do things. It also doesnt mean its not p2w. Yes, the sub system is dying but thats because there's to much choice now and people want things for free. This game is also not sa f2p, its b2p. Meaning those who want everything for free wont be coming to this game anyway.

And yes, 'catching up' is p2w no matter how you try to justify it. You paid to get ahead. That is paying literally to win. Especially when you can pay wildly more than is required. Thats exactly why it shouldn't be in the game. Most people are in that boat that have to work, so do I, but I dont want someone who makes $50k more than I do to have that advantage over me. If I cant make it in the game by the time spent, well then either I accept that and play the game for what it is, or I move on to a game that caters more to my lifestyle.

Also, that game is designed round not having to grind, so that excuse doesn't hold any weight here. The only way you would be able to have a 'catch-up' mechanic is that if you could buy the skills and spells directly with cash so that your friend doesnt have to play the game to beat it.

@jetah said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

There are people who play games because it's free. Children 11+ play that don't have a credit card. Young adults that have tight budgets. To some people that coffee is more important than the game they play 30+ hours a week. I agree with you but there are people that will spend 1000 a month on a game and will trade that for the time saved not having to grind for something. I have a friend that doesn't play often but can afford to spend 300$ as a catch up if he needed to.

My point is accessibility to everyone.

Whilst that is true, why would they cater to those people when it creates unbalance. Its too easy for things to become unstable. Thats fine, if that coffee is more important thats great, priorities. But then that is their choice and they miss out on the cosmetic. Just because they want their cake and eat it too doesnt mean they should bring mechanics in that is too easily lob-sided with those who have deep pockets. Whenever you can 'catch-up' by throwing money to the game, it becomes paying to win. People in general want an even playing field and that means you achieved/found/explored/killed whatever and wherever to gain that advantage.

I know you are advocating for those who dont have much money, and thats fair enough - I can understand that. But the con that comes with that creates way more of a problem than those not getting stuff for free. Prometheus also stated that there would be premium items you could gain through playing the game so they dont lose out entirely. And again, if there is one they really want, well then they sacrifice that coffee. 11 years olds aren't really the priority either when it comes to game development. They will gain the ability to purchase cosmetics in their games when they are old enough.

@jetah said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

but that means people have to pay to get said item which won't help 90-95% of the population. IMO there should be a way for a person to acquire shop goods without needing to pay but time has to be spent. IE I get gold by farming mobs/players and I can sell that gold for Dynamight Gold so I can buy a new ability/spell GFX.

Ill be honest and never understood this. Are people that stingy that they wont drop a few dollars on a game they enjoy? And yes, people can pay. Its the difference of not buying coffee for a few days and spending it on the game alternatively.

@jetah Right, I do agree. Thats why I said I dont expect them to go down that path. Still sucks though, I dont want content to suffer because it eggs you on to buying in the cash shop which is what I see a lot of the time. Regardless though, I know a sub is an unrealistic approach.

Like @Mazikar I'm more of a sub type person. If you have a good game that has substance and a depth of content, people are then willing to pay the sub fee. Now, I dont expect them to go for the sub path but I do prefer it. Gaining a cool looking mount or weapon effect because I achieved it or found it as a drop is way more satisfying than just dropping my debit card. In saying that, some alt spell particles or colour variances for both gear and particles would be nice. The improved tools idea is good too. Maybe skins for the different types of mounts too? I'd like to see different mount types having different stats and not all being the same. So having different looks for each mount would be great. I'm not opposed to the non-combat pets either as long as the combat pets arent removed of gimped to push you towards paying for them.

@sebastian @Finland @Jetah Whilst I can see your point, I find it hard to not just reiterate what I've said before that then it is an issue of genre, not the way the game should be played. The whole genre of MMO's is based on gameplay time, thats why they were invented. Huge worlds with tons to explore, content to play through. This is coming from someone who also cant 24/7 play the game. But I can accept that. If I cant keep up, then I have two choices; either accept it and just keep playing or decide that the genre is not for me. Its also been stated multiple times that the game will be based on skill, not equipment. Therefore if you have the skill regardless of the amount of time you play, you can still be top tier. If you cant, well no amount of money you try to through at the game or RMT you try to exploit will help you get there.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but thats the reality I see of it. I know I wont be top tier and can accept that. I dont want to ruin the game with RMT to give those who are willing to spend $1000's of dollars just to get an edge over others and dont want those who dont want to spend anything to ruin it for others by allowing those same whales to splurge just so they can play the fashion game.@Logain Has already given examples how this is possible even to a small degree.

If the developers end up going that route, fair enough and that is their prerogative but as @Phaethonas has pointed out, the mass majority of those who play the genre do not like it. And realistically this game wont have such a large playerbase that they can rely on whales to sustain it. Therefore they need to garner as much customer contentment as possible to have them return the favour with cash shop purchases.

@finland said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

I don care if people want spend time or money. I just hate players selling gold/currency.

Thats what we are saying Finland, if you can buy a cosmetic item and sell it for gold, your buying and selling gold. Just indirectly.

@dybuk At that point you might as well have items that have stat advantages. Your point doesnt make sense because the person who used real money has now got a time advantage over you. There is still an advantage because they have a lump sum of cash they didnt 5 minutes earlier. In a game where money is used for everything, thats an advantage, and to call it otherwise makes no sense. Also P2W is anything that gives someone who used money an edge over anyone else who doesnt. Its not only if the item cannot be achieved other than by using money. Its paying to win, you win because you had a bunch of money that I didnt to get gear I wasnt able to purchase as quick as you, therefore progressed quicker and ultimately beat me, therefore won. If you say well thats just PvE, then what does it matter if the items have stat boosts? You are stating it makes no difference because well, you just take your time without the stat boost. And in PvP, that money you gained to buy stronger gear in 5 minutes that the other person wont gain for 2 weeks is a massive advantage. The only reason people realistically can argue this point is if they dont plan on spending any money but they want to play the fashion game. And that is just plain annoying for everyone else who would rather have a fair playing field over not having to spend $20 on a cosmetic they want.

@ganytaj It does say you pretty much wont get attacked on Arboreus, so there wont be any open PvP. Unless you mean being a demon or human, but then you're going out of your way to not chose the right option for yourself lol.

@Prometheus Bloody good post, thank you for putting all the debates to rest Looking forward to the game even more now.

The schools of magic is a big difference for me. The way progression is done is also very different, exploration being the driving factor.

@dagimir said in How do you feel about transmog system for fractured?:

@chrightt Has your gear dropping been confirmed? I must have missed that.

I cant remember exactly where, but they stated that gear will be dropped and it also wont have a big impact on your stats either. That way if you lose them, its no problem.

@jetah I dont think its about tier but rather combinations. They said weather will environment will have an effect on gameplay. Its possible that different combinations of resources create different types of equipment, giving you access to otherwise restricted areas. Its not that one type is stronger or better, but more suited for certain situations. Therefore, yes you could stay in your safe area if you so desired, but your spell count and knowledge is going to be minimised because of it. This way they encourage exploration for those who wish to take the risk and become 'stronger' and those who don't wont be able to attain everything.

@prometheus said in Getting Antsy!:

The deal has been signed. Funding has been secured. Dynamight will grow - even before Kickstarter.

...here it is! More detailed info soon!

Awesome! Looking forward to it!

@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:

@Logain I do believe the worlds will be setup with resources in tiers. I doubt the developers would put tier 10 (or whatever the highest tier will be) resources in the spawn areas. Generally you do want to persuade the population to venture out and to do that you have higher tiered resources further away.

I think what he is referring to is that progression is through exploration, not grinding. So you may want to go to a certain location, not because you are now at that 'level' but because you need to gain knowledge points. I believe his reference to tiered gear was an example of mechanics in a typical mmo. There probably will be areas with rarer crafting resources with denser or stronger enemies, but nothing is stopping a new player from going there other than knowledge and skill.

@Logain @Finland Truth is I dont think anyone on either side of the argument is going to relent. Both dislike the other too much to agree so the deciding factor is just going to have to be the spotlight thats coming out hopefully this week. I personally like open world in theory and in its best form, but it can and most likely will divulge into a zergfest which in reality is just a spam fest with no real tactics or fun, especially for those in the minor numbers. But lets me hopeful they find a way round this.

@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:

@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:

If the game is set up in a good way then there will be plenty of dungeons or places of interest to hunt.

Open world = big numbers (zerg). There's no skill at all, it's just an aoe spam and those geared better with more players will win the fight.

I have to agree with finland here that experience tells us that zerging is just the way it goes with complete open world. I do enjoy open world, I prefer it but the draw back is pretty massive. I dont know if there is a way to subvert that other than having some instanced areas. Anyone have a good way?

I think a fair compromise would be have both in a lore friendly way, like a portal that closes once the group has gone through so that its not really 'instanced' but means others cant go. Then you have open dungeons where everyone can. The way you make those more enticing is maybe the drops are better quality and higher quantity? So risk/reward is greater for those who brave the potential pvp.

@jetah said in Ingame Arenas In Example Boxing:

@finland

so i buy a subscription type item from the developers

Although thats true, they have stated that their cash shop will only have cosmetics, no premium in game items. So there wouldnt be that problem as the only money someone could gamble would be that which they have gathered in game. The issue I see is how the mechanic would work and if it can be exploited. For e.g. I decide to 'lose' so that someone gains. That kind of thing.

Like most people, the 3 worlds and exploration is pretty intriguing, but what really lured me in was the 400 spells/magic school idea. Personally played a lot of old school rpgs that had similar systems so was pretty excited to see a game going a similar route. Also, isometric is my favourite views point.