@Crowdac said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
@Jetah Just an opinion, but I think it all depends on the game studio. Digital Extremes, in my opinion, have done a great job handling P4C model with Warframe.
that's only because you can pay to speed up crafting. otherwise you can get silver via game play when trading. I suspect fractured to offer tools or something to speed up crafting too but that puts it into the p2w category because this is a pvp game.
@Gothix said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
"Convenience" can be different things depending on game mechanics and type of game.
For example, selling character bag space in a game that also has large housing storage and multiple teleports to the house would be a simple convenience, luxury that's not really making you "win" anything.
In a game that's full loot, and features manual travel and restricted character carry capacity, selling bag space would be P2W.
So depending on a game, a same thing can be either a P2W or a simple convenience.
If cash shop is made right, and features only a real convenience, that this will be good for the game. Just need to be careful what to put in shop.
but. lets say people have to harvest materials to get items crafted. lets say time is a resource. would you want to maintain 100 slots (and/or weight) being free or would you rather pay $$ to increase that space and/or weight so you can harvest longer without having to run back to base?
there isn't typically an equal amount of time players play. but if 2 people with equal game times of say 2 hours a day. they both have the same race and class and picked the same gathering. one decides to not buy space/weight and tries to earn it. while the other decides to buy space/weight. during those 2 hours of harvesting the no-pay has to return to their house 6 times while the other only needed to return twice. while the convenience is there so is the speed in which the paying customer can get better goods.
now lets extend this to a 6 month time. they've both gathered 2 hours a day (breaks were taken but lets assume it was an equal amount of days). the player that paid has 4x the materials that the non-payer has. that means the non-payer has to farm 4x more to be equal in harvesting the same amount of quantity.
now lets assume a whale decided to buy all the slots and weight that can be purchased. lets say the same 2 hours a day. lets say after 1 month they're already equal to payer above.
how is this seemly convenience mechanic not a p2w option?
@Kralith said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
@Jetah said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
the problem with convenience is the developers can design those task to be tedious to heavily persuade the subscription. the VIP will give an immediate boost when the game is new. after 18 months it might not be nearly as a boost. so it could be changed!
i'd prefer only cosmetics. some account level stuff like character slots, name change, are fine. if we could sell characters via DS/Fractured store then i'm ok with that too.Do you not imagine too much, what will happen with the benefits of VIP?
They promised us to design it in a way that not affect the equality of player.
We did not even see the result about this, just an idea.
But i see you are agueing with a possible Imagination.Also if i read the Article you linked right, you compare Fractured VIP benefits with a game with Microtransaction time savers? And for this reason you want to warn Prometheus?
C'mon.
i've been there when game companies said one thing and it didnt work out. i've been there when companies said something and it had a huge backlash in the community.
i know knowledge doesn't make you powerful but it does open the options up more which can be more powerful than not having them. if there's a city siege and you have vip sit out a little waiting to see what spells are needed to counter then it's going to go in favor of those that can counter.
prometheus already said the game would have convenience mtx. i posted this video/topic to show them that it isn't a good idea. the comments in the video dont like the convenience options. it's been said that crafting will be real time in fractured. that means tools and benches can be sold for convenience (to shorten the time it takes to craft).
I'd hate to see someone drop $5k (or more) into the game to speed up crafting or gathering or other time duration because a siege is going on. it should be fought based on what resources were gathered and produced during peace.
eve online already has this. i posted in another thread that someone spent $70k and they weren't even winning the war.
@Kralith said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
problem about development is that things previously stated can be redacted.
i was looking through some of the videos but I can hardly hear them and they're all 1h long and I wont watch 5+ hours just to find it.
@Xzoviac said in Fractured - a living world?:
Are the npcs, in fractured going to move around, hunt eat kill monsters near there citys, maybe join the local king/tyrants military.
Even if we are not getting many quests, it would be nice to get a feel/connection for npcs.
Be like oh shop keeper Eric had just died, and his shop has shut down, or his daughter has taken over, and said npc is sad about the loss of her father...
I like npcs and I feel like they make a world feel alive, I hope fractured npcs are not just shop drones with no feel movment or memorability
Not just town npcs either, maybe goblins for example speak goblin (and you can learn the language?)
Hear a plan to raid a town, over a period of say 2-3game days the goblins from nearby tribes will come together and prepare to attack said village, players could sell this infomation to the local lord (player who owns the town), or set up traps and try protect the civilians, or even wait till the goblin ambush is over and loot the corpses and ransacked village..
What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
so long, as a demon, i can join the goblins in the raid!
@Yitra said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
@Jetah said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
Not all the developers are coders or art. Znirf first post said he is a CM, nowhere does it mention he codes.
That is just an assumption on your part. CM is not his only job in the team: link text Just as Prometheus is not only playing boss
dude could be cleaning toilets then grabbing latte's or lunch from the local cafe (after washing hands of course).
@Farlander
I like that the Foundation gives rewards for being simi-active on the forums. So I give DS a 5/5 stars on that one, right now I'd be Reddit or not paying attention to the game, otherwise.
@Pluto said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
How I look at it is this, they are interested in horizontal progression meaning even if someone "progresses faster" via some 10% knowledge increase potion or some such nonsense, they are not really getting ahead. They are not stronger than the next person.
Furthermore, I have said it countless times... But all things should be purchase-able by "free" players. It might take a good amount of coin, but thay potion should be available
We do not even know if that is what they mean by convenience items.
but diversity is strength. being able to toss a fire down and redo your skills to counter someone is pretty OP.
we dont know what they mean but i've seen other games and it never works as intended.
i have 2 years of post history on the topic.
if the group can fully gear new players then the group has the advantage, assuming the other group hasn't paid for anything.
the knowledge needed could be the counter to a meta build the other group is using.
they'll send an email, tweet, post kickstarter update, forum post. when theyre ready you'll know.
@Pluto said in Optimistic, but Hesitant:
@Jetah said in Optimistic, but Hesitant:
@Pluto said in Optimistic, but Hesitant:
@Yitra said in Optimistic, but Hesitant:
@Pluto : Think of it as seeing your favourite sweater beeing on sale, later on. You never know if that will happen and if they have the right size available then. You need to take risk some time to make sure you get what you want.
I think you know that isn't a valid analogy, but I do appreciate trying to justify it lol. In the end it is just scummy behavior.
Counter argument: Think of it like a tool you are researching and developing. Someone who has backed you through thick and thin and at the earliest hour. You give the tool to them for X. New guy comes around and you give them the tool for .8X. Hmmm. Bad business for sure
To invalidate that argument further, they opened up even more packs for the sale when they sold out
but prices naturally drop on manufactured goods. i bought a headset on KS, after the headset was delivered i found out it was being sold for the same price i bought it for via KS but was told it'd retail for more. oh well.
Interestingly, fractured is not a manufactured good. It is not even a released good or service.
so the game isn't built? it isn't tested? it isn't refined? while there isn't a physical product being created, it is a digital product and it's pretty similar to a physical item.
@Farlander said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
My favored alternative is the one planned here. I prefer no sub with micro transactions for cosmetics. Cosmetics are such a huge thing for most players. I would expect this generates decent income for the devs. They are easy to introduce because they cause no balance issues with the game itself.
yeah i've been saying this quite a bunch. it leave any power or convenience out of it and just lets the people dress how they want. I can see character slots and what not still there.
@Pluto
Path of Exile. their whole crowdfunding was only cosmetic. I've even been arguing Warframe only because any player can not pay and still have access to the whole store (steam fan made cosmetics aside) just by trading items found in game.
@Pluto said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
Path of exile sells convenience items. You can buy extra tabs
Warframe you can buy warframes
do you think tabs are their primary income or secondary?
frames aren't more powerful though. they do offer a little boost, but usually less than 25% (same thing Fractured is offering) but the loadout can be better. again, anyone can buy them because you can farm mods or void relics.
path of exile had $100m revenue in 2017 so cosmetics as primary income can be done.
reading this and a previous comment I made.
imagine alternative art for player characters! some could be in the style of the Angel, Lich and Abomination, where the versions have to be found (gives the f2p folks a way to find something through activity).
@Xzait
it was a persons art work, so completely separate from Fractured.
i played destiny 2 (on pc) and the one problem it had was no meaniful gameplay behind doing things once. the reason why was every cosmetic was behind a pay wall (eververse). you could get lootboxes every level beyond cap that that wasn't helping.
one of the content updates was to put some cosmetics behind game play walls. there was a mount you could get when you shot certain items then found the chest containing the mount. there were special cosmetics lootable from the raid. special cosmetics, aside from the tier gear, from PvP. the game became alive with players because there was reasons to do the world events and to run the raid multiple times.
putting cosmetics behind boss walls is one thing that's kept old content 'alive' in world of warcraft. there are people still running ICC for 1 mount, 11 years later. there are still people running a dungeon for a mount. people still run old content for weapon enchants, weapon transmog.
i'm always for putting free cosmetics in the game so that it's a privilege to obtain and see.
@Basileus said in Rhykker Mention of "Pay for Convenience":
You might have heard of a recent indie game called Mordhau, which is completely free after the initial payment, with free cosmetics, free weapons, free progression and etc. That game was at the top of Steam's charts, but has now fallen down to the wayside, simply because of the fact that it is no longer reasonable for the devs to keep investing all their time into a product with little return, and therefore the updates come very slowly. If that game had a standard modern business model (pay for convenience, such as quickly buying new weapons that might otherwise take 24 hours of gameplay to grind, and cosmetics), they would have had access to more revenue, which in turn would allow the devs to invest more money into creating more content. The gaming world worships the idea of returning to the old days of buying a game once and never paying again while having full content at low time investment. This used to work when games were not a service, when they were mostly singleplayer, were never patched, never updated, and there was little competition. This no longer applies to modern games. If Fractured is to thrive in the modern world, it needs to adopt modern business models so it can compete with all the other great alternatives out there.
problem is when you have everything you become bored. then you leave the game and wait a few years or never return because you can just 'buy the gear whenever'.
what i hate is when your game development is worked around how long it takes to earn something with the idea that 'someone can just buy it'. then the whole idea in creating the game is to make the grind long enough so that people just buy it. then they can create an economy where 'grinding will make about 1-2$ per hour' or you can get a part time job at a fast food place and just buy it.
Diablo, Warcraft (rts), starcraft were all developed and expanded upon without anything beyond the buy to play and expansions. path of exile exist with majority of it's revenue from cosmetics and supporter packs. PoE hit 100m in revenue last year! warframe helps those that cant buy things with the ability to trade with those that do buy so there's a trickle down economy.
problem is convenience items are great for short term cash fountains but they dont continue.
@deusex2 said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
So far, most of spells were quite meh, and you'd run out of mana after casting only few of them.
So I suggest we wait and see both knowledge system and refined magic system, before raising the alarm.
the other person replied to a year old post.
@Xzoviac said in Completionist Titles:
killing enough of a certain mob to get a title, such as 1000 chickens and you get Chicken kicker
eat 1000 chickens and you get Chicken Licker
