People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday
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@Xzoviac said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
Wich part contradicts gear having stats?
"The core strengths and weaknesses of your character are set when you create it by choosing its attributes, and don’t change during the course of gameplay..."
Gear gives attributes, so they do change during the course of gameplay.
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That kind of depends on how many attributes can be gained from gear.
If you can distribute 100 attribute points on character creation, but then get only additional 2 from gear, that could be considered insignificant in comparison.
However if player would be able to gain more significant amount of attributes from gear, than naturally the influence of vertical progression rises.
We do not know yet how much attributes we will actually be able to get from game play (and gear specifically), besides what @Znirf wrote... that it will be a minor amount.
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The gear that’s supposed to take hardly any time to acquire? Oh right, that gear. There’s a reason bosses don’t drop super duper powerful weapons. That’s not the game they’re creating
As for the attributes bit you’re stuck up on... you’re just trying to be argumentative. They are clearly saying your character cannot gain attributes via progression/skills. Gear does not add to your character whatsoever, it complements it
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@Pwnstar said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
@Xzoviac said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
Wich part contradicts gear having stats?
"The core strengths and weaknesses of your character are set when you create it by choosing its attributes, and don’t change during the course of gameplay..."
Gear gives attributes, so they do change during the course of gameplay.
Your core strengths and weaknesses of your character dont change.
gear may enhance you slightly, but take that gear away and your core strengths and weaknesses will be the same as day one.
you can not add stats like in diablo and change how your char builds as you level
you are not automatically granted skill points dependent on your class/job, as you level
this is what the above statement means.
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@Xzoviac He's clearly talking about choosing attributes, like STR or INT. And then claims those don't change through gameplay. Uh, what?
And then I craft a pair of pants that gives +5 INT.
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@Pwnstar said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
@Xzoviac He's clearly talking about choosing attributes, like STR or INT. And then claims those don't change through gameplay. Uh, what?
And then I craft a pair of pants that gives +5 INT.
Yeah I get your point, I just see it as him saying your base stats dont change, and gear is just enhancements to your stats
So you stats could looked like this
18 + 4
12 +2
8 +0
10 -3
13 -1The + and - being grear stats the actual original stats never changeing
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@Xzoviac
Base stats not changing?I'm sure they confirmed in a video that there will in fact be ways to increase your base stats beyond the original permanently.
Using shrines or some such.Also you can always re-arrange your base stats while at a campfire.
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@islesofurth If I remember right, you can not change your base attributes after character creation, but you can rearrange talent points at campfire.
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I think the main point is that the stat changes you can gain in game will be in a minor amount, to not significantly impact your character.
They will help a bit, yes, but not in such huge way that it changes your "caster core" into "melee core", if I can use such terms.
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Tldr; the game is about horizontal progression.
There is no level 1 magic vs level 99 magic. Gear is going to be inconsequential, and easy to reacquire. Thinking otherwise will just set you up for disappointment.
I’ll be honest, it’s something I’ve never encountered before. And if done incorrectly there may not be enough to keep me coming back. However, I’m willing to give them a chance.
Face of mankind was fairly similar though. Gear was pretty inconsequential, and there were no skills whatsoever. And I truly enjoyed that game. But, you could increase your combat ability by just being a better player. It was all about true skill, which seems difficult in this style of game.
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@Pluto said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
There is no level 1 magic vs level 99 magic.
There will be 3 levels in magic and abilities so we know we have that much vertical progression there.
Gear is going to be inconsequential, and easy to reacquire. Thinking otherwise will just set you up for disappointment.
At least the basic gear is meant to be easy to replace and that is totally fine, but if there is no tiers in gear, that will make huge part of the crafting a really underwhelming activity. I personally hope we are going to see several different tiers in gear. However, the power gap between tiers can be small, but still something what makes gear progression meaningful, and that way keeps players interested with crafting and character gear progression.
It was all about true skill, which seems difficult in this style of game.
Skill is part of any game, but when we think generally RPGs, the main core is in character progression. That is what keeps players interested and helps for longevity of the game.
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@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
There will be 3 levels in magic and abilities so we know we have that much vertical progression there.
Not vertical, still horizontal.
Higher rank spells will not grow in power, but will just be modified with different effect, some like modifying gear horizontally.
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@Gothix said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
There will be 3 levels in magic and abilities so we know we have that much vertical progression there.
Not vertical, still horizontal.
Higher rank spells will not grow in power, but will just be modified with different effect, some like modifying gear horizontally.
Next time, check the facts.
"leveling up an ability increases its power – be it a stronger effect, increased duration, reduced cooldown, and more. However, they’re always minor differences.."
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@Tuoni yes in pre alpha a table was presented where spells indeed grew in power, but after some community discussion devs mentioned, that instead of that, we will get several variations of a spell, rather then spell growing in power.
Not all spotlight info is up to date (it's old spotlights, so don't stick to them so much, as things can often change or be tweaked).
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@Gothix This is indeed the case. That spotlight needs to be updated.
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If that so, this sounds kind of bad news from character progression and exploration point of view. If level 1 ability is enough to gap the power, why even bother to travel around the world and level up more? To get cosmetic spell effects? I don't think so.
I am actually getting quite concerned about the whole project atm. In MMORPGs the RPG part and especially character progression is one of the main cores. If players do not get the feeling of progression, that will not upkeep the intrest of players for long either. Going too far with having only horizontal progress in every aspect can easily have negative impact for longevity of the game. I hope this point has at least thought in the risk management.
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@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
If that so, this sounds kind of bad news from character progression and exploration point of view. If level 1 ability is enough to gap the power, why even bother to travel around the world and level up more? To get cosmetic spell effects? I don't think so.
I am actually getting quite concerned about the whole project atm. In MMORPGs the RPG part and especially character progression is one of the main cores. If players do not get the feeling of progression, that will not upkeep the intrest of players for long either. Going too far with having only horizontal progress in every aspect can easily have negative impact for longevity of the game. I hope this point has at least thought in the risk management.
its not just a cosmetic effect , for example a fireball that was thrown may now turn in to a tick over time that surrounds the player and turns it in to a AOE burn, doing the same dmg but behaving differently
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@Tuoni because rank 1 spells (which by the way you only have few on start, a major amount of spells you don't have at all but have to learn first) will not be enough to defeat specific monsters around the world.
For monsters that have particular set of stats, and particular mechanics, your rank 1 spell, and your default gear will not be good enough and that monster will own you.
So you will need to customize your gear, tweak it's stats (not grow it in power, just tweak stats around), and you will need different variations of your spells that will behave in different way (not more powerful, just different and more effective vs. that particular type of monster), and then you will have chance to defeat it.
Different spells, and different gear, will not grow in power, but will have different kind of utility, that you will NEED to be able to handle different situations, so if you will not walk around the world and learn the new spells, and you will not customize your gear, that's up to you, but like that you will not be able to do majority of content.
Also having more options, allows you to counter different types of player builds in PvP. If you have few spells that do particular thing, and you meet a player that made "anti build" for that, he will own you, and you will NEED to walk around the world learning different spells to be able to counter different player builds.
All these spells are not more powerful, they are just different in their utility and effects, but you will NEED those spells if you want to be viable for lots of content, that in other case you wont be viable for.
Hopefully, this explained it better.
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@Gothix Actually I do not need any explanation how horizontal progression works, I am awere of that.
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@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
@Gothix Actually I do not need any explanation how horizontal progression works, I am awere of that.
Well it kind of didn't look like it.
@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
If level 1 ability is enough to gap the power, why even bother to travel around the world and level up more?
Here you were curious about what's the point of learning new abilities, and new variations of those you already have so that's why I explained it in my post above.
And it also makes huge affect to PvP as well (not only in PvE).
Lets say you are new guy, and you meet someone with everything unlocked... first combat, you are equal (in decks) and you defeat him (through your playing skillz).
He resurrects, and changes his build to the be an efficient counter to build you were using (he knows what you were using if he was observant in combat), he tracks you down and owns you.
He can now keep tracking you and owning you every single time because he has many abilities unlocked and he was able to make a build that counters yours very efficiently, and since you have a fixed starting build you can't beat him with it, so your starting build isn't adequate anymore vs that player so, you can see, even if spells will not grow in power through vertical progression (and gear will also not) having multiple options available certainly still gives big situational advantage regardless of game being "horizontal".
In other words by progressing horizontally your character still grows in power, just in a different way.
So, about what you were typing, not being sure what's the point of unlocking more spells... that's what explanations are for.
@Tuoni said in People who buy a founders pack today get more than yesterday:
I am actually getting quite concerned about the whole project atm. In MMORPGs the RPG part and especially character progression is one of the main cores.
You have no reason to be concerned.
The core is safe.
