Opinion on Monsters after the alpha
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So i loved the crafting and building the house I know at lot of people dint like how slow it was, but i love grinding so i thought it was great.
I loved mass killing lores of wolfs, however in the end killing monsters felt mostly pointless
I killed each mob once mass killed mobs i could, built my house, made 5 different stat builds , and tried every spell combination.
I Think monsters not giving XP (i know the point of the game) made the killing feel hollow.
The monsters dont drop items so grinding has no pointmy suggestion to improve the feel/reward of grinding mobs.
Have mobs give Knowledge Experience, so the more you kill a monster the more you level up the knowledge of said monster, could even have a mini skill bar for each monster that lets you skill up how much crit dmg loot drops, ability to track the monsters , ability to use the monsters body parts to create poisons healing potions whatever.
Sacrifice system that lets you sacrifice the mob to your chosen god, kill enough and you get to summon a spirit version as a pet, giving players something else to collect
Titles (Goblin Slayer)
Chicken kicker
Spiders banekill enough of said mob , and you can craft weapons specifically to hurt that mob more,
Go talk to Xzoviac the -Chicken kicker, he will make you a knife perfect for killing and skinning chickens, giving you more loot and chicken knowledge XP.I Know this was alpha, and i dont know what the Knowledge system will be like to make combat feel like it has a point past getting resources which is fairly boring no one is gonna grind for hours and hours doing this.
If the game does not have some things to grind when the game is finished we will all run out of content very quickly- on the PVE side
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Good thread and good question.
Even speaking as someone who plays MMORPG for guilds/PvP/politics, I fully recognize that PvE is almost always the lifeblood of an MMO: plenty of PvE folks never PvP, but almost all PvP folks also PvE.
I personally see PvE as largely a means to an end: it provides a more regular kind of flagpole for guilds to rally around since PvP generally requires far more effort and organization.
But that said, you’re right that Fractured will need a dynamic and engaging PvE system lest it hemorrhage players.
Maybe some sort of raid/World Boss system needs to be implemented to spice things up?
I’m not sure. Paging @Bardikens!
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the point of animals is crafting materials which is the point of most of the NPCs.
in my mind the whole point of the survival and crafting system is for pvp. Having recently started Black Desert Online, I'm starting to see the similarities between Fractured and BDO. If you've played BDO then think of it with a static camera and 3 planets.
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@Jetah said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
the point of animals is crafting materials which is the point of most of the NPCs.
in my mind the whole point of the survival and crafting system is for pvp. Having recently started Black Desert Online, I'm starting to see the similarities between Fractured and BDO. If you've played BDO then think of it with a static camera and 3 planets.
beastmen are gonna get bored fast if the only point in killing monsters is for pvping later ....
BDO , monsters drop loot , killing monsters lets you learn about them, the more you kill said monster eventually you learn how much hp it has and hit it harder , you can pickup quests and get knowledge the more you kill certain monsters and earn reputation with certain NPC's In BDO there is even a beastery saying your Rank for killing said monster
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@Xzoviac said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
So I loved the crafting and building the house I know a lot of people dint like how slow it was, but i love grinding so i thought it was great.
I loved mass killing lores of wolfs, however, in the end, killing monsters felt mostly pointless
I killed each mob once mass killed mobs I could, built my house, made 5 different stat builds, and tried every spell combination.
I Think monsters not giving XP (i know the point of the game) made the killing feel hollow.
The monsters don't drop items so grinding has no point
my suggestion to improve the feel/reward of grinding mobs.
Have mobs give Knowledge Experience, so the more you kill a monster the more you level up the knowledge of said monster, could even have a mini skill bar for each monster that lets you skill up how much crit dmg loot drops, ability to track the monsters , ability to use the monsters body parts to create poisons healing potions whatever.
Sacrifice system that lets you sacrifice the mob to your chosen god, kill enough and you get to summon a spirit version as a pet, giving players something else to collect
Titles (Goblin Slayer)
Chicken kicker
Spiders bane
kill enough of a said mob, and you can craft weapons specifically to hurt that mob more,
Go talk to Xzoviac the -Chicken kicker, he will make you a knife perfect for killing and skinning chickens, giving you more loot and chicken knowledge XP.
I Know this was alpha, and I don't know what the Knowledge system will be like to make combat feel like it has a point past getting resources which is fairly boring no one is gonna grind for hours and hours doing this.
If the game does not have some things to grind when the game is finished we will all run out of content very quickly- on the PVE sideI agree
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@Xzoviac said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
@Jetah said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
the point of animals is crafting materials which is the point of most of the NPCs.
in my mind the whole point of the survival and crafting system is for pvp. Having recently started Black Desert Online, I'm starting to see the similarities between Fractured and BDO. If you've played BDO then think of it with a static camera and 3 planets.
beastmen are gonna get bored fast if the only point in killing monsters is for pvping later ....
BDO , monsters drop loot , killing monsters lets you learn about them, the more you kill said monster eventually you learn how much hp it has and hit it harder , you can pickup quests and get knowledge the more you kill certain monsters and earn reputation with certain NPC's In BDO there is even a beastery saying your Rank for killing said monsterGood ideas!
In a game like this, the PVE really needs to be dynamic to be fun. Bosses should be difficult and require teams, they should threaten NPC (and perhaps player) polities, and the PVE landscape should shift based on the players succeeding or failing versus certain groups. The devs shouldn't be afraid to allow enemy NPCs to build towns and cities and have people destroy them for coinage and rare resources perhaps.
Bestiary is also a fantastic idea. Monsters should also be dynamic and rewarding. If a dragon burns down an NPC town and your team kills it, maybe you can be recognized by a local NPC faction with a one of a kind title or other rewards.
The ideas are really limitless if you forgo the traditional splattering of animals in the wild for a mixture of that and more dynamic options.
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@Xzoviac said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
If the game does not have some things to grind when the game is finished we will all run out of content very quickly- on the PVE side
I've felt that Fractured's long-term content will be player-generated (conflict, rise and falls of empires, etc.), and you're right, there doesn't seem to be as much room for that on Arboreus.
On the other hand, to me, grind equals repetition, and repetition is "fluffy" content.
It pretends to be content, but really isn't.One possible solution is economics: if Arboreus winds up being the Lend-Lease world to power the wars of empires in Syndesia, then a player-driven economy may well be the player-generated endgame content on Arboreus. I think I'd like that!
In that vein, gathering rare resources may well become a competition. Both Albion Online and Wurm Online have players racing to gather rare resources in PvE, fueled by demand from PvP.
One other mechanic I'd love to see would be scientific-method-based research: of the world, fauna, flora, ecosystems, resources, magic, crafting, etc. That wouldn't be grinding per se, as you would always be doing something a little bit different to actually progress (and that fits more with the parallel progression of the knowledge system).
Perhaps it comes down to how much we can do with the knowledge system; how many unique goals will we have to explore, and will the reward be worth it?
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@Alexian said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
Maybe some sort of raid/World Boss system needs to be implemented to spice things up?
I agree. Without harder (harder than basic dungeons) PvE content the "endgame" or goals can be kind of narrow, especially for players in Arboreus.
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@Bardikens said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
@Xzoviac said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
@Jetah said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
the point of animals is crafting materials which is the point of most of the NPCs.
in my mind the whole point of the survival and crafting system is for pvp. Having recently started Black Desert Online, I'm starting to see the similarities between Fractured and BDO. If you've played BDO then think of it with a static camera and 3 planets.
beastmen are gonna get bored fast if the only point in killing monsters is for pvping later ....
BDO , monsters drop loot , killing monsters lets you learn about them, the more you kill said monster eventually you learn how much hp it has and hit it harder , you can pickup quests and get knowledge the more you kill certain monsters and earn reputation with certain NPC's In BDO there is even a beastery saying your Rank for killing said monsterGood ideas!
In a game like this, the PVE really needs to be dynamic to be fun. Bosses should be difficult and require teams, they should threaten NPC (and perhaps player) polities, and the PVE landscape should shift based on the players succeeding or failing versus certain groups. The devs shouldn't be afraid to allow enemy NPCs to build towns and cities and have people destroy them for coinage and rare resources perhaps.
Bestiary is also a fantastic idea. Monsters should also be dynamic and rewarding. If a dragon burns down an NPC town and your team kills it, maybe you can be recognized by a local NPC faction with a one of a kind title or other rewards.
The ideas are really limitless if you forgo the traditional splattering of animals in the wild for a mixture of that and more dynamic options.
The only issue with this is that one time, in-game titles will be a huge disappointment gor the echievement hunter players. If you cant get everything, all them players wont want to play anymore. Temporary titles would be better. Things like becoming a lord of an NPC village or perhaps an elder if you stick around the area long enough
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I'd rather see how knowledge is earned and at what rate, once it's implemented, before adding knowledge points for killing mobs.
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All of the newer monsters don't have loot tables yet and there's no knowledge system so the only point currently is for resources - hides, meats, fat, etc.
On the PvE side, I really hope they do end up implementing regional/world bosses - always loved those kinds of open world encounters.
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already mentioned that the game will be solo friendly. very few mobs will require a team to kill.
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I'm excited to see how they handle PvP, as I feel that will be the true end game (as is usually the case for most games unless you're just full of super interesting content like Warframe, and people eventually burn through that and go away from the game until the next update).
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@Basileus said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
I'm excited to see how they handle PvP, as I feel that will be the true end game..
Yes, PvP (and GvG) will be one of the "end game" contents, but in Fractured it can not be the only one if you think how the three planet system is planned to build. There needs to be serious goals for PvE too. Not only for players in Arboreus, but also to players in Syndesia and Tartaros. Like you, I am also interested to know how the PvP "end game" will be implemented, but I am also eager to know what is planned for people in Arboreus if they won't focus fighting over cities, territories and other objects?
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@kellewic said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
All of the newer monsters don't have loot tables yet and there's no knowledge system so the only point currently is for resources - hides, meats, fat, etc.
On the PvE side, I really hope they do end up implementing regional/world bosses - always loved those kinds of open world encounters.
Ye, i myself found it super disappointing to burn 300 arrows and 50+ healing potions on a group of giant spider that ganked you, only to gain nothing from it, after being unable to flee from them due to the trap spells, and the remedies not removing poison like they say they do, burning tonnes of hp
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@Xzait said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
@kellewic said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
All of the newer monsters don't have loot tables yet and there's no knowledge system so the only point currently is for resources - hides, meats, fat, etc.
On the PvE side, I really hope they do end up implementing regional/world bosses - always loved those kinds of open world encounters.
Ye, i myself found it super disappointing to burn 300 arrows and 50+ healing potions on a group of giant spider that ganked you, only to gain nothing from it, after being unable to flee from them due to the trap spells, and the remedies not removing poison like they say they do, burning tonnes of hp
Well that's alpha for you.
But yeah, I can certainly understand the frustration of spending tons of resources on combat, only to be left with nothing(played a co-op mission in WH40K:Martyr, only to have all the in-mission loot disappear on me, due to known co-op bug, in a fully released game)
But once again, this is alpha and we still have no clue just how mob slaying is going to be handled, once knowledge system is implemented. It could be that we'll be forced to fight spiders, in order to observe them using their webs, in order to unlock Web spell, or poisoning ability.
Basically, it's wait and see situation.
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With only a small part of the skills available and no knowledge systems, it's hard for me to already have an opinion on this. Combat balance and tweaking is often part of the beta phase.
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@deusex2 said in Opinion on Monsters after the alpha:
..once knowledge system is implemented. It could be that we'll be forced to fight spiders, in order to observe them using their webs, in order to unlock Web spell, or poisoning ability.
What I have understood, this is exactly what will happen with knowledge system.
Ability/spell unlocks are first hidden, and after when opened then there will be some grind combined with exploring to unlock tiers 2 and 3.
On top of that, I am quite sure, that also the spiders will have loot tables in future. We could presume to see some kind of venom sacs used for poison crafting, and spiderwebs used for tailoring for example.
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I hope this ^^ answers to @Xzoviac concern of empty loot tables and zero experience.
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@Roccandil One problem with the rare resource thing is that many PvE focused players aren't really looking for just a gather and sell type deal. Too many games have already shown that to be a rather small niche overall within that demographic (one that exists, certainly, but small). Further, the competition aspect there would be a direct turnoff to many of the people who I would expect to go toward Arboreus.
Fractured has a unique chance to say "Sandboxes don't have to relegate PvE to this tiny little box". It is something I have personally heard from a fair few people. The better they can do at allowing a wider variety of play styles within Arboreus (exploring, crafting and interdependency mixing crafts and combat goals for both groups and solo will be important for actual town style groupings, and so on) the more likely they will be to get recognition for doing exactly that... the more they do what every other game has done the more such people will dismiss it as a disappointment.
It cannot be all grind either, of course, because that is indeed as you noted
