Gamer Demographics & Namings
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Sounds like the old question of whether developers create the game they want, or try to please as many people as possible (except themselves).
I'm quite curious to see the world the developers want to create.
I may not like how it turns out, but I'd rather it was theirs.Attempting to please the crowd is the road to uniformity, not diversity.
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@deusex2 said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
It was about as constructive as saying,"get woke, go broke," is a scientific fact(although there are more and more evidence piling up each day in support of such theory).
It's a real theory. Just look at MAD magazine going literally broke today after two years of trying to satirize Trump.
I'm not trying to break the rules against politics here, I just wanted to add evidence to Deusex's point.
@Tuoni said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
The biggest problem with your suggestion was that word man or men does not only mean a male. It is also synonym for words like person, human and human being. So word man also includes females. Beastman (as a word) can be compared straight for human in Fractured, in both case it is not about males, it is about persons. Moreover, etymology for Beast + Man is "an intelligent man-sized beast".
Exactly, in the same way that "mankind" doesn't mean only men. Or even just the capitalized "Man", which I believe is short for mankind anyway.
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@Pwnstar said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
@deusex2 said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
It was about as constructive as saying,"get woke, go broke," is a scientific fact(although there are more and more evidence piling up each day in support of such theory).
It's a real theory. Just look at MAD magazine going literally broke today after two years of trying to satirize Trump.
I'm not trying to break the rules against politics here, I just wanted to add evidence to Deusex's point.
If this thread is against the rules it should be closed tbh this new wave feminist ideology and this chain of thought is defenitly a extremist political View
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@PeachMcD said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
more evidence that 'woke' does not equal 'broke'...
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-caa-diversity-study-exclusive-20170622-story.htmlsummary for the folks too busy to click the link: Movies with diverse casts and female leads actually perform best at the box office. My o.p. was based on this premise.
Not saying women & non-binary folk won't play a game that's not taking them into account - we've been doing that for decades now
- but if the idea is to make the game as attractive as possible to the most buyers, I'm having trouble understanding why suggesting non-gendered naming is so upsetting to y'all.I'm not going to engage folks who have contempt for the whole idea and I'm not trying to change minds. I'm just dropping some facts for the devs to use as they choose.
I find it fascinating that suggesting gender-neutral language seemed provocative & unnatural to many posters, but not the idea that in-game 'racial' slurs would become normal. In a meta sense, I'm thinking that just like sci-fi, for some a game is a place to replicate our world and for others it's a place to comment on/experiment with it.
Right, that article was written by a black gay(no problem with the guy, but forgive me for considering him biased on the matter). It talks about studies, which are impossible to find online(at least I couldn't) and which are made by a "diversity expert," for a talents agency(definitely biased there-hire our talents, coz they make money).
The study, itself, is based on data for 2014-2016, which is pretty outdated by now. While it shows that the number of minorities going to movies increases every year(or it was, by 2016-outdated data), it doesn't shows the total number of movie goers(did it increased or decreased), it doesn't refers which movies and it's audiences were studied, nor is it taking into consideration any outside factors, like improving economics and inflation.
The only movie it does refers to is "Star Wars: The Force Awakens," calling it best-performing movie, among evaluated ones, and saying it had 40% diverse case and 38% diverse audience... Which makes me facepalm, because the study and the author make it sound like it was a success because of it's diversity and not because it was a hyped up STAR WARS EPISODE 7 movie, after decades of waiting for a franchise sequel.
So basically, the whole article, and a study can be summed with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
As for how does that article relates to your request-I still don't understand, since when you read the article, the main topic of it is diversity of races.
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Why is this even an issue? It's not like there is a plan to check birth certificate before allowing creation of character of specified gender. So most MMOs already cater for people who don't identify with their biological, gender - you can create as many characters of whatever gender you want, and play with them however you feel like.
But please, leave the language alone
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Hey @PeachMcD
as a woman - damn there is MAN in it - uhm... as a female - damn, again, MALE - as a .... wait, we Germans have a word for it that not has MAN in it, it is called FRAU. But merde! It is also generated by a male word, frô = Herr (english: Sir).... to be continued.
As a woman, i can understand well the demand of equality.
But some points of reflecting this in our languages is a too much for me.
Our language is surely based in the hundreds of years of patriarchy, that means, it will take some more generations to turn this into a genderless speech.But is this really neccessary?
If we live equality, we will not mind some historic growed words.
And if we find for all male based words another ones for females, do we not show difference beween genders instead of pushing equality?We are Homo Sapiens.
Homo is translated into english with Man.
Maybe we should just stop to see the word Man as a male thing, maybe we should start to see this word as a general things that fits for every Homo Sapiens.
Because we are Homo Sapiens, means Mans with Wisdom, we don't need to change our language, we just need to change our mind.
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You can always use the world girl, there is no man in it.
Oh wait... guy in real life.... nevermind
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As far as I know, the gender-neutral language was not to make life easier for women, but merely for those who don't think they belong to either man or women.
Many games, like this report by Quantic which (as far I am aware) have no specific gender-neutral language, have a healthy population of women playing it. So I really don't see the point of needing this suggestion to get more women into this game.
Type/Genre of the game seems way more relevant to attract women to games.
Also if I look at this part of the OP "The link below does not take non-binary players into account but believe me I know MANY." It's like saying I know a lot of Christian people cause I go to church every Sunday. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded.
I rather like to refer to Bullet number 9 of the Quantic report:
- Highest Percentage of Non-Binary Gender Gamers in Exploration and Family/Farm Sims.
The baseline of non-binary gender gamers in our full sample is 1.1%. In the current analysis, the genres that had the most non-binary gender gamers were Atmospheric Exploration (3.8%), Family/Farm Sim (3.2%), Casual Puzzle (2.7%), and Sandbox games (2.3%).
Adjusting your game for 1,1% of a potential player base? Should not be on a list of things-to-do for an Indie-developer with sparse resources IMHO
- Highest Percentage of Non-Binary Gender Gamers in Exploration and Family/Farm Sims.
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@PeachMcD said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
At the risk of starting a merdestorm, I'd like to hope that our developers know which side their bread is buttered on, and will consider adding one more goal to their list: gender-neutral language (in English at least, since that's what I'm reading/speaking here).
It's not 'just' about being what some would call 'politically-correct' and others would call 'considerate'. It's about reflecting the community that's forming here accurately.
Women and non-binary players are an ever-increasing percentage of the gamer world. We often need to be kinda thick-skinned to succeed in an arena historically dominated by testosterone, but honestly it would be ever so much more attractive to make that less necessary. Is there, for example, any real reason to have BeastMEN rather than Beastlings? Or was that name a translation from a language that requires gendered endings, that could be adjusted?
I know this is gonna trigger some d00ds out there, but I'm actually trying to make the devs MORE MONEY, so if the triggered ones can just relax and look at it from a marketing standpoint, they might end up agreeing this is the best way forward for a great game. The link below does not take non-binary players into account, but believe me I know MANY.
Hope this can generate some constructive suggestions/responses.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232383/gender-split-of-us-computer-and-video-gamers/
How about this...we leave social justice and real world politics out of the game completely.
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Political correctness is even taking over virtual worlds now... I had no idea it had got this bad...
