Gamer Demographics & Namings
-
At the risk of starting a merdestorm, I'd like to hope that our developers know which side their bread is buttered on, and will consider adding one more goal to their list: gender-neutral language (in English at least, since that's what I'm reading/speaking here).
It's not 'just' about being what some would call 'politically-correct' and others would call 'considerate'. It's about reflecting the community that's forming here accurately.
Women and non-binary players are an ever-increasing percentage of the gamer world. We often need to be kinda thick-skinned to succeed in an arena historically dominated by testosterone, but honestly it would be ever so much more attractive to make that less necessary. Is there, for example, any real reason to have BeastMEN rather than Beastlings? Or was that name a translation from a language that requires gendered endings, that could be adjusted?
I know this is gonna trigger some d00ds out there, but I'm actually trying to make the devs MORE MONEY, so if the triggered ones can just relax and look at it from a marketing standpoint, they might end up agreeing this is the best way forward for a great game. The link below does not take non-binary players into account, but believe me I know MANY.
Hope this can generate some constructive suggestions/responses.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232383/gender-split-of-us-computer-and-video-gamers/
-
@PeachMcD said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
gender-neutral language
let them do whatever they want. i hate when the community demands this.
the developers are Italian, let them build their game.
-
I think it's more important that the world of Fractured be true to its own rules (whatever those rules are), not ours. I assume, for instance, that Beastmen call themselves Beastmen for their own historical reasons.
-
While we are there, how about we change HuMAN to HuLings? xD
Beastmen is a term that includes both beast genders.
Only in modern days few overly sensitive social groups started requesting changes of thousands of years old dictionaries because their fragile ego was hurt (and they are so bored that they don't have anything smarter to do with their time). I can tell you right away, dictionary isn't their problem, they have many more serious issues, but dictionary isn't one of them.
Nuf said...
Don't change anything.
-
@Jetah this wasn't, if you read carefully, a demand. It was an idea. A suggestion that takes into account the actuality of gamer demographics and marketing fundamentals.
I knew there would be pushback from triggered folks who feel every change as an encroachment on their territory, but I'm not out looking for a fight OR making demands. Honest. I'm trying to be constructive, at a time when that gets politicized almost instantly.
As you say, it's the dev's game. They are building it with input from their community of players. So let them use the information available to make the most successful possible game, right?
-
Beastman is a real english word and not something what Fractured developers has created. We have in every language these old traditional words, which are referring to specific genders. Even we are currently living in much more equality times than past, it is still important to not go too far and not over react too much. What it comes to word man, it does not just mean gender, it also means human, human being or person. So with that logic we would need to invent new word for human too.. should I as a father hurt my feelings of words like earth mother or mother language? No I do not.
-
In father Russia language changes you.
-
Jesus christ, please not here.
That slow of a day that this is going to be an issue, huh?
-
I hope the devs don't change a thing.
-
What's the point in being politically correct? Do we need speech codes now? Who cares if some idiot is offended?
-
Oh dear god(says the atheist)!!! And here I thought this day couldn't get worse...
There was no constructive about the original post. It was about as constructive as saying,"get woke, go broke," is a scientific fact(although there are more and more evidence piling up each day in support of such theory).
Let the devs decide whatever language they want to use. As for us-consumers, the majority is sick and tired of political correctness being shoved down everyone's throats. So logically speaking, how does pandering to an actual minority group, at expense of the majority makes for a beneficial financial move?
It just doesn't. As in many cases, the majority will be pushed away from the product, while the minority won't be interested in the product, anyway.
Also, real smooth-attacking d00ds right away and then going,"see-I knew they wouldn't like it."
Yeah, no kidding! How would you like being proverbially slapped in the face?
-
I hope to God They dont listen to these kind of plans.
Real life politics has no place in fantasy games.
The fractured world has it's own Lore, and its not part of the messed up world views of a small percentage.
Women and men and beasts Male and female are what exist in this world
For example Just because you sexually identify as a rock, does not mean that the fractured world need to change its lore to suit your political ideology
-
One thought this topic did trigger was that realistically each race would have multiple names: that which the race calls itself, and that which the other races derogatorily call it.
For instance, as I understand it, the Indian tribe known as the Sioux were actually named that by an enemy tribe: "Sioux" meaning "Worm-people". The Sioux called themselves Lakota or Dakota, simply meaning, "the people".
So, the Beastmen might call themselves Beastmen, but it's hard to see disrespectful Humans and especially Demons calling them that.
I also wonder if the Demons would call themselves Demons. Biblically, demons identify as angels, and I think a case could be made the Demons would consider themselves the "good guys"!
(Or, at least not the bad guys.)In short, each race would tend to consider itself the "enlightened" ones, and look down on the others:
- Beastmen: close to Nature, despise Humans for technology's inherent transference of entropy to Nature, and Demons for being outright evil;
- Humans: inventive and explorative: despise Beastmen for being tree-huggers, and Demons for wanton slaughter and destruction;
- Demons: worship power, despise Beastmen for limiting themselves with their ideas of "good", and puny Humans for attempting to make up for their weakness with pathetic technological toys.
I imagine any names given to other races might reflect the above.
-
@Roccandil like Andorians call humans the "pinkskins" in Star Trek.
-
more evidence that 'woke' does not equal 'broke'...
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-caa-diversity-study-exclusive-20170622-story.htmlsummary for the folks too busy to click the link: Movies with diverse casts and female leads actually perform best at the box office. My o.p. was based on this premise.
Not saying women & non-binary folk won't play a game that's not taking them into account - we've been doing that for decades now
- but if the idea is to make the game as attractive as possible to the most buyers, I'm having trouble understanding why suggesting non-gendered naming is so upsetting to y'all.I'm not going to engage folks who have contempt for the whole idea and I'm not trying to change minds. I'm just dropping some facts for the devs to use as they choose.
I find it fascinating that suggesting gender-neutral language seemed provocative & unnatural to many posters, but not the idea that in-game 'racial' slurs would become normal. In a meta sense, I'm thinking that just like sci-fi, for some a game is a place to replicate our world and for others it's a place to comment on/experiment with it.
-
Frankly, changing long time establish lore dictionaries would just sound horrible.
If i saw a MMO with races called Beastpersons, and using various terminologies like person power (instead of manpower), parent nature (instead of mother natre), ... "insert many other crap sounding vocabulary terms here"...
... I'd skip that MMO in a wide circle, and wouldn't touch it with a stick.
What you are suggesting would make the MMO more attractive for 5% of population and less attractive for 80% of population, where perhaps 15% of players wouldn't care.
-
@PeachMcD Movies are a complete different medium for one, and your "facts" are all opinions.
Iv personally spent about £300 on fractured, and if the devs suddenly changed the feel of the game just to pander to 0.1% in some misguided attempt at making more money,
Then they will definitely lose me as a customer.Not because I care if beastmen are called beastlings, but because I care that a tiny group of people can manipulate the game
I dont mind a new race suggestion that works with your world view and fits with the lore.
But changing the world just because you want it (and the devs actually listening)
Would make me lose faith in this company completely
-
I agree with most of the opinions here. There's no need to change all the word endings for that. If it's lore based, we should stick with it, even if devs try to be as attractive as possible (even if I don't know if it will be really attractive, as you saw, I think a lot of people would leave the game if the devs do it, and it would be the contrary that happen ^^ ). If there is a new race that could be gender-neutral in the lore, why not ? But at the moment, it's like that
-
@Xzoviac said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
Real life politics has no place in fantasy games.
At least should not have.
@Gothix said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
If i saw a MMO with races called Beastpersons, and using various terminologies like person power (instead of manpower), parent nature (instead of mother natre), ... "insert many other crap sounding vocabulary terms here"...
True. It is not just about one word; Beastmen. If someone choose to take this neutral-gender- wording road, then it needs to be done properly and those new weird terms would annoy more of people rather get anyone interested.
@PeachMcD said in Gamer Demographics & Namings:
Not saying women & non-binary folk won't play a game that's not taking them into account - we've been doing that for decades now
You make it sound like you are some kind of victims here..
but if the idea is to make the game as attractive as possible to the most buyers..
If every gender related words would been changed for more neutral ones, that won't attract everybody. It has positive impact to small portion of players, but negative impact for wider audiance. That is one of the problems purely from business point of view
..I'm having trouble understanding why suggesting non-gendered naming is so upsetting to y'all.
I stand 100% behind every kind of equality, but I would not like to see this kind of politics having influence in any game. Totally wrong place to promote specific ideology imho.
The biggest problem with your suggestion was that word man or men does not only mean a male. It is also synonyme for words like person, human and human being. So word man also includes females. Beastman (as a word) can be compared straight for human in Fractured, in both case it is not about males, it is about persons. Moreover, etymology for Beast + Man is "an intelligent man-sized beast".
Sooo, I am not here to segregate anyone, just speaking behalf some words and their true meaning, and how I see changes like in your suggestion more like negative for business.
-
Also by just a short check on @PeachMcD digital footprint, I can see its not only about gender names. She is a general activist (also quite religious), goes on various campaigns, marches etc.
In other words, she tries to push to change many things in broader spectrum of fields (weather it's more or less fitting to do so in a particular field).
