Marketing as important part of early development
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@OwlsaneGaming said in Marketing as important part of early development:
There is no need to advertise fractured atm as it first in the alpha phase so there is no substance of content / storyline /etc. Basically if we advertise the game right now it's like saying "Hey guys, we're making a game. Nothing more to say but come check it out".
They can imo begin to advertise it when the game is in the beta phase.
I presume you did not read any of those shared articles either.. Anyhow, how you would like to see Fractured advertised more during upcoming testphases? You can think this from beta testphase point of view.
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@Gothix
that's going to seem odd in game and i wont spend 25$ for the shirt.@Tuoni
problem is marketing has a cost. DS can't spend half their budget on marketing right now when it could be put into the game. There's a time and a place and right now that time isn't there. They should let the players do some advertising but DS needs to develop the game. When the game is in a state before [open] beta then you advertise!
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@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
@Tuoni
problem is marketing has a cost. DS can't spend half their budget on marketing right now when it could be put into the game.You just do not stop to amaze me. All of those shared articles or videos are about low expense or zero budget marketing, which are especially targeted for small indie gaming studios. On top of that who talked about 50/50 budget..
"Plan to spend at least as much time and energy on marketing activities as you do on development."
It seams you have not read a single one of my posts or shared articles properly, but still you are keen to comment..
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More interesting sampling from Intel developer zone. Marketing campaign goals to build, maintain and grow your fan base. There is no room for breaks if you want good results.
"Following Up
Your marketing campaign goal is simple—to build and maintain an adoring fan base. Make it easy to discover your game, using social media to post updates. Post on social media daily, if possible, even if you’re just passing something along. Think of it as the I’m alive circuit for your marketing efforts. Be active in forums and blogs, and participate in game jams and other events. Show up at your local game development community events. They’re desperate for the help and welcome new faces as well as old veterans."Convert Visitors into Active Fans
When you create and update promotional materials and regularly post a blog, you systematically convert casual visitors into paying customers. Even better is when you upgrade your customers into active fans. Regular news about your game and your company is vital to your growth. Nurture your fan base with personal touches, and respond quickly to questions. But don’t just post and respond—drive the conversation with dialogue starters. Make fans feel like part of the process by seeking input on certain decisions. And remember to remain professional when responding to trolls and critics. Simply explain the reason for your decision, but don’t throw gasoline on the fire and engage in a two-week flame war.
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i haven't because it isn't the right time to market. DS is doing good as they are.
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I haven't read the entirety of this thread, but I have to 100% agree. Now is NOT the time for marketing. DS has both our kickstarter money, as well as traditional external funding.
Marketing should never happen 2+ years before release. Are there passionate gamers? Yes. Are they the majority? No. Most gamers would lose interest before release. Therefore, you are wasting marketing on a demographic that you're inherently going to lose. You might get a few oddball passionate players, but it's likely they're already actively searching for a game like this... and probably found it.
In any case, the goal should be to "ensnare" as many players as you can, just before release.
When I talk about marketing, I primarily mean a dedicated push to reach as many gamers as possible. However, I do think it's important to release videos and devblogs about the state of the game, of course
*PS:
I hate using the term DS, it reminds me of Derek Smart. dryheaves
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Thed devs are working on marketing Fractured. It's one of the reasons why they've hired @znirf.
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@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
i haven't
Okay, this explains everything.
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@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).
we were suppose to get more content pills but that stopped for a while. we should be getting Kickstarter backer updates. until DS hires a community manager that can rally the developers to release content, we just have to wait.
I did love the full Dev show that Crowfall did. they had 1 dev from each aspect of the game display some samples or explain parts they were working on.
I agree with this.
It's stupid to hype it up too early and then run out of steam through the development process. Just wait until you have an actual game.@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:
@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).
Never? Like Albion Online, Ashes of Creation or Crowfall did (just mention few)? But I guess you know better than developers of these studios..
And look how well they're doing...
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@Belligero said in Marketing as important part of early development:
@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).
we were suppose to get more content pills but that stopped for a while. we should be getting Kickstarter backer updates. until DS hires a community manager that can rally the developers to release content, we just have to wait.
I did love the full Dev show that Crowfall did. they had 1 dev from each aspect of the game display some samples or explain parts they were working on.
I agree with this.
It's stupid to hype it up too early and then run out of steam through the development process. Just wait until you have an actual game.@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:
@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:
you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).
Never? Like Albion Online, Ashes of Creation or Crowfall did (just mention few)? But I guess you know better than developers of these studios..
And look how well they're doing...
Albion Online had steady grow during test phases so they handled the marketing part quite well. They made last minute mistakes with game designing, which leaded to loose players drastically. Now they made smart move, they fixed a lot of those design problems and at the same time changed their business model to F2P, so they got kind of new start.
Gaming development and the marketing has changed a lot in past years. The biggest reason for this is programs like Kickstarter or Crowdfunding. Now gaming studios NEEDS to start make heavy marketing really early on and before the program is even starting. If they do not do that, their funding program will fail. So yes, you need to start hype in many cases over 2 years before release, simply because the development takes so much time when creating a MMORPG.
Ashes of Creation and Crowfall did both a superb results with their funding programs. That well they did it. Afterwards both studios have suffered from delays, because of design changes made by developers and now marketing persons have challenging task to maintain the already build fan base and at the same time get new people interested.
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@Specter said in Marketing as important part of early development:
Thed devs are working on marketing Fractured. It's one of the reasons why they've hired @znirf.
Okay, good to know.
I was reasoning that something like this could be planned, but I was not sure about znirf's exact job description.May I ask you @Znirf , what kind of marketing plans you have for future? Just a sneak peek at this point would be more than enough. Or is it still a secret?
EDIT: Okay, even you are officially a Community Manager, I found this one from introduction: "just got a master in Digital Marketing"
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Ashes of Creation is doing poorly because they changed their game design from originally promoted one, not because they hyped it too early.
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@Gothix said in Marketing as important part of early development:
Ashes of Creation is doing poorly because they changed their game design from originally promoted one, not because they hyped it too early.
@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:
(...)Begin your marketing campaign the moment you have something that illustrates the fundamental mechanics and look of your game(...)
That's the point though, this is too early in development, so some of what we have n ow is bound to change and that upsets people. Hence why a good amount agrees to wait with hype, till after most fundamental designs are fixed.
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@Logain Man, I cannot possibly agree with this more. The whole enjoyment of watching other people game has me baffled, but maybe that's a generational difference.
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@Logain said in Marketing as important part of early development:
@Gothix said in Marketing as important part of early development:
Ashes of Creation is doing poorly because they changed their game design from originally promoted one, not because they hyped it too early.
@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:
(...)Begin your marketing campaign the moment you have something that illustrates the fundamental mechanics and look of your game(...)
That's the point though, this is too early in development, so some of what we have n ow is bound to change and that upsets people. Hence why a good amount agrees to wait with hype, till after most fundamental designs are fixed.
So you decided to take one sentence out of the context and then refer for that? Here is the whole piece, it explains a little bit better what illustrate fundamental mechanics actually means in this situation.
"Begin your marketing campaign the moment you have something that illustrates the fundamental mechanics and look of your game. Whether it's one finished level, a mocked up (quality) screenshot using Photoshop, or a small demo that displays a nuance of your game, it is imperative that you start generating hype as soon as there is something—anything—worth showing to the public. From that point forward you should be promoting the progress of your game on a semi-regular basis."
And here is another one:
"1. Begin before the beginning: Don’t wait for the game to be released to start marketing it. The earlier you do — the better. Run your social media, reach out to press & influencers, create a website — just make sure to keep all those channels updated. An empty Instagram account will do you no good."
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Here is a another article, which also editorialize how developers needs to know their target audience and take these points count in their marketing strategy.
When should I start marketing my indie game?
"..often, indie studios tend to think of it as some stuff you have to do in the final months just before release in order to improve sales. But that is a huge (if surprisingly common) mistake: in our opinion, you should keep marketing in mind since day 1.
"One of our mantras is that marketing starts at the design table."
"If you start your marketing strategy from the very beginning of the development process you can have an accurate portrait of your audience, identify risks and opportunities, work on a communication strategy, and start to build up hype once you decide to announce the world you are working on something."
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@Gothix said in Marketing as important part of early development:
Ashes of Creation is doing poorly because they changed their game design from originally promoted one, not because they hyped it too early.
Yeah, I agree. They basically started unexpectedly to develop another game, which pushed the MMORPG project further. That was 'a slap on the face' for all the backers who would not care less of that BR gamemode. That was low move..
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some mechanics change. I backed both Camelot Unchained and Crowfall while in KS. Now Crowfall is changing and if they were doing constant advertising then they'd have customers who'd want a refund because that wasn't the vision they bought into.
what happens if DS doesn't have the game ready for 2021? what if it's more like 2022? if they advertise '21 and cant do it then many people will leave for other games. they've lost them; some for good, some may come back.
like i've said before, keep developing, have backers do the advertising then 12m to 6m before open beta (or w/e they'll call their trial) you advertise. this is the cheapest and best because things will change, things may be pushed to post-release and some new things may happen at release.
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@Jetah Advertising is not a samething as marketing.. Advertising is just one small part of it. I think people have now misunderstood what marketing actually means. Marketing is a process from beginning to the end. And what you do, how and when are part of the marketing strategy. Here is quite good definition:
What is marketing?
"Marketing is present in all stages of the business, beginning to end."
"Marketing is the process of getting people interested in your company's product or service. This happens through market research, analysis, and understanding your ideal customer's interests. Marketing pertains to all aspects of a business, including product development, distribution methods, sales, and advertising."
"If marketing is a wheel, advertising is one spoke of that wheel."
"Marketing entails product development, market research, product distribution, sales strategy, public relations, and customer support. Marketing is necessary in all stages of a business's selling journey, and it can use numerous platforms, social media channels, and teams within their organization to identify their audience, communicate to it, amplify its voice, and build brand loyalty over time."
"On the other hand, advertising is just one component of marketing. It's a strategic effort, usually paid for, to spread awareness of a product or service as a part of the more holistic goals outlined above. Put simply, it's not the only method used by marketers to sell a product."
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@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:
(...)So you decided to take one sentence out of the context and then refer for that? Here is the whole piece, it explains a little bit better what illustrate fundamental mechanics actually means in this situation(...)
No, I am not taking it out of context. It is a conditional statement (and one that makes sense) that puts everything stated afterwards into a certain perspective.
If you are sure that was you're developing makes it into the final version of the game, sure go ahead and share it. If not, that can do more harm then good, because it attracts customers that are unhappy in the end and are going to down-rate your product.
