Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System
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@fyrsey said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
(...)It's still a grind, though, just of a slightly different kind(...)
Well, grind is 'repetitive', but there's only so many points you can gain out of any single monster before you have to move to another in Fractured. So, if you call it grind, it definitely is going to be a very restricted type of grind.
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Like the concept very much! I hope you do not have to kill monsters too often as a hero to learn more about it. Otherwise, this would be a "grindy" feature too. But if I understood correctly, you are really focused on preventing grind which is great!
I think it could be nice, if heroes are able to discover some abilities also only when playing together with others and doing specific actions. This would encourage players to interact more with others and play cooperative.
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@tuom said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
Like the concept very much! I hope you do not have to kill monsters too often as a hero to learn more about it. Otherwise, this would be a "grindy" feature too. But if I understood correctly, you are really focused on preventing grind which is great!
I think it could be nice, if heroes are able to discover some abilities also only when playing together with others and doing specific actions. This would encourage players to interact more with others and play cooperative.
Well, I already called it grindy-ish. Any game has its grind, really, but implementations are vastly different. I actually like what I see here; as @Logain rightly pointed it out, grind in Fractured seems to be rather restrictive. You can't just stick to a couple of "sweet" spots, you will have to move on and seek different ways to gain Knowledge points. Unlocking all info about creatures is unlikely to be required, unless you're a completionist.
As for unlocking some abilities through teamwork, it may be possible, especially if there're specific "teamwork" ones.
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One more question:
Since you have to go to other planets to unlock higher levels of the abilities, how does that work for evil players going to Arborius? Are there tasks that require them to go to the areas that are too hard to reach for players of a certain alignment?
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@prometheus said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
You can also handily save pre-defined configurations.
Thank you sooo much for this!
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@Fyrsey
True. And what Logain said sounds really good to me too.
This could make a remarkable difference to "common" MMOs today.Regarding "teamwork" I really hope there will be some mechanics or features that encourage players to play as a group more often. Imo there currently is a lack of "playing together" in a lot of MMOs out there. The casual players tend to play alone more often (just my impression) because it takes too much time and effort to find and/or build a lasting community/guild.
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@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
I know you're going to talk more about attributes in the future, but I still want to ask this question. It says "attribute", does that mean you can choose only one attribute or is it possible to make a hybrid?
There was just an S missing - fixed
@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
How exactly does it this work? We draw the world map on an ingame map? Or does it unlock automatically? Can we trade/sell maps? How exactly does cartography work?
This type of progression is personal - you needs tools, but the output is to reveal a piece of the world map for that character. You don't create an actual map object.
@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
Sounds much like holocrons in SWTOR to me, am I correct?
The effect is not necessarily similar but the idea is quite close indeed.
@esher said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
You said we can learn more about an animal by interact with/killing him, what do you mean by interact ? Is it just to come closer than the animal that reveal something new ? Or more something like a real interaction ? (like skinning, hunt, alchemy,...).
And when you're learning your spell, you can do what you want, it learning automatically, isn't it ?A real interaction - skinning was a good example, but there are many others. For a cow it would be milking, for instance! And sure, the learning process goes on automatically in the background, you can do whatever you want in the meantime. You can even be offline!
@clavicus said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
@prometheus It seems to me this will appeal to everyone from a min maxer to a casual.
That's the aim!
@fyrsey said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
Pick your main build to roll around, which shouldn't take too long, it seems, and go ahead doing your things, be it unlocking all the rest abilities, or building your clan village, or whatever.
Couldn't have been summarized better! :slight_smile:
@werkrug said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
when the game will be released to pre alpha, will be some wipe before the final steam release for the public?
There will be a wipe after every time-limited testing phase. That includes beta testing phases.
@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
Since you have to go to other planets to unlock higher levels of the abilities, how does that work for evil players going to Arborius? Are there tasks that require them to go to the areas that are too hard to reach for players of a certain alignment?
We'll try to avoid that as much as we can, but there's nothing inherently bad in a Demon being cut off a few level 3s :slight_smile:
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This was a great read. I'm so excited once again!
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@prometheus Nice
DOes it mean there will be no restriction for this action ? (for exemple, you can choose only two "jobs"(as some other games call them), like fishing and hunting, and need an other character to get the others)
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Thanks for the update!! Massive
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@esher said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
@prometheus Nice DOes it mean there will be no restriction for this action ? (for exemple, you can choose only two "jobs"(as some other games call them), like fishing and hunting, and need an other character to get the others)
There's no limit to what your character can learn, so you can be a proficient fisher and hunter at the same time, of course
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I really dig it! I think a "knowledge" approach is really smart way to progress things!
I'm a little concerned about this paragraph, however:
Here, you can re-assign your Talent Points as many times as you want during a Resting phase. Yes, that’s it: just sit down in front of a fire change all your Talents to match the stats and abilities of your Hero, just like you do before a match of your favorite MOBA!
I'm a big fan of choices that have consequences, and feel like this might be antithetical to some of the other design principles you are going for.
Maybe I'm not understanding enough, but how will this not effectively make everyone the same and promote a "meta" where there's only one proper choice for a given task?
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Gosh I've been so busy lately only now I had time to read the spotlight finally
That's some very nice info you give us there, this is getting me even more interested and hyped into the game. I won´t be asking questions this time since some1 already asked what I wanted to ask sooo.. keep up the good work Prometheus and dev team We'll be waiting to hear more exciting news from you
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@lethality said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
I really dig it! I think a "knowledge" approach is really smart way to progress things!
I'm a little concerned about this paragraph, however:
Here, you can re-assign your Talent Points as many times as you want during a Resting phase. Yes, that’s it: just sit down in front of a fire change all your Talents to match the stats and abilities of your Hero, just like you do before a match of your favorite MOBA!
I'm a big fan of choices that have consequences, and feel like this might be antithetical to some of the other design principles you are going for.
Maybe I'm not understanding enough, but how will this not effectively make everyone the same and promote a "meta" where there's only one proper choice for a given task?
Well, you're still limited by the attributes you set at character creation. Other than that, good question.
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@lethality said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
I'm a big fan of choices that have consequences, and feel like this might be antithetical to some of the other design principles you are going for.
Maybe I'm not understanding enough, but how will this not effectively make everyone the same and promote a "meta" where there's only one proper choice for a given task?
While I agree, I think we should wait for the update on the 'fixed' player choices, that might help explain.
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@lethality said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
Here, you can re-assign your Talent Points as many times as you want during a Resting phase. Yes, that’s it: just sit down in front of a fire change all your Talents to match the stats and abilities of your Hero, just like you do before a match of your favorite MOBA!
I'm a big fan of choices that have consequences, and feel like this might be antithetical to some of the other design principles you are going for.
Maybe I'm not understanding enough, but how will this not effectively make everyone the same and promote a "meta" where there's only one proper choice for a given task?@Lethality @Vengu @Logain when you create your character, you define what it's really going to be in terms of strengths and weaknesses. That's a very meaningful choice.
If you create a character that is strong, resilient, decently agile, but totally dumb, that character will never be an effective wizard. Mind, there are no classes in Fractured, so it CAN be a wizard: it's enough that during a Resting phase you choose a bunch of Intelligence-based, AOE damage-dealing spells (if you've learned them), and voilà - you have your stereotypical PvE wizard, perfect for that dungeon you want to run...
...except you'll have a hard time being relevant on the battlefield considering your mana pool is limited, mana regeneration slow, and your spells are less powerful than if used by an intelligent character.
This was to make a first point: there is no "perfect build" for a "given PvE* scenario". The build should always be based on the scenario AND your base attributes :slight_smile:
Now, you could ask: given a certain base attributes setup and scenario, will there be a "meta" set of abilities and talents to pick? Probably yes, and that's almost inevitable. But now I shall ask something to you: if Fractured was class-based (= the abilities you can learn are pre-determined by your class) and there were no resting phases (= you talent allocation is permanent or you have to pay real money to change it), would it encourage you to experiment more, or would it encourage you to just "follow that wiki build that certainly works"?
For us, the answer is clear, but I'll wait for yours
*I'm talking PvE only here because a PvE scenario is something more or less predictable. If we're talking a PvP or PvPvE scenario there's literally no "perfect build" since it depends on who you're facing.
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@prometheus said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
(...) just "follow that wiki build that certainly works"?(...)
I think what he meant was that you'd have to build a character with all possible scenarios in mind, which means you can have the decision to go for one specialty, or to be mediocre in everything, given that combat in Fractured is supposed to be highly environmental and situational based. There wouldn't be any 'certainly working' build, but granted there would be certain presets, but that's going to be the case regardless.
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I definitely like the knowledge and skills approach you're describing here, @Prometheus.
My only concern is having a character that I eventually don't want to play anymore as it doesn't fit my playstyle based on choices I made while I didn't fully grasp the game. (ie when I first got on and created the character).
Why not choose to allow a character to migrate slowly their stats or attributes or skills towards what they're using? In your example of the occasional wizard with low intelligence, if he sets his attributes to migrate and keeps using his spells (intelligence based abilities), he could overtime increase in intelligence and decrease in, say, something else he had chosen to favor at first.
Thinking of something along the lines of what Life is Feudal is doing.
Otherwise, what's the rationale behind the design decision to lock in those choices made at character creation?
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@holyavengerone said in Feature Spotlight #3 - The Knowledge System:
I definitely like the knowledge and skills approach you're describing here, @Prometheus.
My only concern is having a character that I eventually don't want to play anymore as it doesn't fit my playstyle based on choices I made while I didn't fully grasp the game. (ie when I first got on and created the character).
Why not choose to allow a character to migrate slowly their stats or attributes or skills towards what they're using? In your example of the occasional wizard with low intelligence, if he sets his attributes to migrate and keeps using his spells (intelligence based abilities), he could overtime increase in intelligence and decrease in, say, something else he had chosen to favor at first.
Thinking of something along the lines of what Life is Feudal is doing.
Otherwise, what's the rationale behind the design decision to lock in those choices made at character creation?
I agree. I am the kind of person who likes to focus on one character, especially in a game like Fractured where completing a character will probably take months or maybe even years. However, I also tend to change playstyles a lot. We know it's possible to change attributes a few times after character creation to give players a chance to correct their build in case they gimped themselves. I just hope there will be ways to earn more respecs.
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sounds amazing
