Be Careful with Pay For Convenience, Please.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    I remember seeing this image a few years back and tried to find it again which I did. Even managed to clean it up a bit.

    My point is that too much Pay for Convenience can be bad. While the image depicts children with school bags it could be replaced with nearly any video game avatar.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @jetah Is that what you're implying? πŸ˜„


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    There is no such thing as pay for convenience.

    These terms (pay for convenience, pay2advantage, etc) are nothing more than p2w apologist crap. Essentially they are basically p2w or they will be turned p2w down the road.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @phaethonas said in Be Careful with Pay For Convenience, Please.:

    There is no such thing as pay for convenience.

    These terms (pay for convenience, pay2advantage, etc) are nothing more than p2w apologist crap. Essentially they are basically p2w or they will be turned p2w down the road.

    That's what this post is implying.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    I can't find a similar picture for ppl with bussy life vs ppl who can play 24/7 πŸ˜•


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @benseine said in Be Careful with Pay For Convenience, Please.:

    I can't find a similar picture for ppl with bussy life vs ppl who can play 24/7 πŸ˜•

    Make game based purely on skill, and not on gear (or much less on gear) and add a daily CD on how much you can progress with your gear per day. πŸ™‚

    Something like original The Secret World was.

    Gear mattered, but someone in full blue gear could totally annihilate someone in full epic, just based on his skill. Gear progress was limited by amount of tokens you could earn in Nightmares, and you could only have done one of each Nightmare dungeon per day. So people that played 24/7 could only progress at same speed as those that played 2-3 hours per day.


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    So far, aren't the plans they've told us about been for VIP to only give aesthetic upgrades?


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @mereni
    and knowledge points and learning slots.

    but there are other items that could be included that change the convenience to easy mode (not sure p2w phrase would be accurate).


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    Pay to win, pay for (too much) convenience etc is the reason I've quit many games over the years.

    I have faith that this game will be different, but I've been wrong before.

    Only time will tell.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @benseine said in Be Careful with Pay For Convenience, Please.:

    I can't find a similar picture for ppl with bussy life vs ppl who can play 24/7 πŸ˜•

    Exactly, rarely do games have a cap on the power of "grind". Personally I don't really mind a lot of pay for convenience stuff. For example, although Bless Online sucks, I think their cash shop was pretty not pay to win.

    There is just too many people complaining about cash shops for the sake of complaining. Honestly, if people gets salty over stuff like this just go play a moba or something. Live with the cash shop or quit. If people were dumb enough to keep playing BDO despite early signs, well it isn't my problem some people can see how games turn out better than others. Β―_(ツ)_/Β―


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    It all comes down to how greedy developers get.
    It always begins as convenience upgrades, but if you are unlucky and have greedy developers, it turns into "convenience" items that you need to progress further.


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    I don't see what they have announced for this game to be anywhere near p2w. I may get flack but honestly I'm sick and tired of p2w turning into this term that is attached to anything and everything the minute an alternative funding stream is announced. A quote I heard about another term, but also applies to this, "never has a term went from obscurity to irrelevance as quickly" as p2w. Now I heard folks crying "p2w! p2w!" and it means absolutely nothing. Sure there have been games that have been truly p2w, but many that are called that now a days aren't. Heck I haven't been able to throw tons of money at some games and yet I still achieve more than folks who drop thousands. Just my 2 cents.


  • TF#4 - EMISSARY

    @EvolGrinZ Think of it as consumers with PTSD. They will assume the worst given recent industry history, and will likely be pessimistic until proven otherwise. I think the best move for the devs would be to take the road of Camelot Unchained, dedicate themselves to having absolutely no P2W features anywhere in game, and restrict themselves from using feature creep as a method to get more funding money; we will see how the project pans out in the long term.

    I personally have high hopes for it, but I also understand that any money put into a kickstarter project may be going into a black hole, never to be seen again. If there is any feature creep in the process of making the game, we as consumers must call out the devs and ensure that we will hold them to their promises (much like shareholders would, except we have far less power as there's too many of us with too small a stake). At the same time, any move that shows dedication towards making their core vision a success, such as fiscal responsibility (seeking outside investment rather than asking backers for even more money via 'special limited time packs' when delays and unexpected setbacks happen, and I bet you they probably will barring a miracle), restricting themselves when needed by cutting unneeded features designed to please the crowd etc should be congratulated. I've designed very simple game projects under time constraints before, and one of the universal constants is that many great ideas will need to be cut in order to put out a viable product. And those were simple 2D based action mobile games; more complex games will necessarily encounter even more obstacles, and it is best that the devs (and us) approach this with cold hard realism rather than starry eyed optimism.

    EDIT: I would also like to applaud the devs for already securing some external funding plus having an actual pre-alpha product in engine before the kickstarter begins; such discipline really makes me have a lot of hope in this project, and I wish you all the best!


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @eso
    That's why I didn't say p2w in the title. Problem is when convenience becomes a pure advantage. Personally I don't like the VIP being offered because I believe a rough copy of PoE would work better for DS. I don't know their financial situation but it seems to me they could be stuck on the 'subscriptions will account for more than cash shop sales' or 'subscriptions will smooth out the lulls in low shop sales'. If DS is producing some enticing cosmetics people will buy them. I believe supporter packs or termed to fit Fractured would do better than any VIP would.


  • TF#4 - EMISSARY

    I think just keep it cool and see where Fractured goes along. We already are (Probably) purchasing the game for some money, we shouldn't be kept behind bars to keep purchasing to succeed. (EA IM LOOKIN AT U)


 

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