Feedback on Legends

  • Moderator

    Feedback from user AceOfSpades which at the moment can't use the forum:


    People don’t do legends, why:


    • Loot worth less than cost of summoning (most of them)
    • Time consuming, not worth time invested.
    • Factor the cost of being ganked and losing it all.
    • Rare material not as important as you think.
    • People don’t even use the materials for enchants because they only have 1-2 and they keep it.

    THE ONLY GOOD LEGEND: (only solo, not worth in a group)

    Fenris, is the only ‘’semi decent’’ legend. You get back all the rare materials to summon it, you trade 10/20 minutes and some common material for a boss drop and some change.
    I promise it’s not even worth it as solo, if you have to bring 10 people for protection…


    Factor time spent doing the boss, chance of getting ganked AND the number of people doing it. The price needs to go down MASSIVELY.



    only 6 Legends ever done by people that aren’t friends of us.


    Make them cheaper, remove gold drop, we don’t do them for gold anyway.

    Those price reduction are CONSERVATIVE, I would lower them further even, but Prometeus is greedy and want us to suffer so he wouldn’t accept it

    Myr Legendary Altars

    Crimson Claw (Bear - Easy)
    	200x Animal Bone → 50x 
    	20X Bear Claw → 5x 
    	20x Beast Blood → 10x 
    	5x Bear Heads → 5x 
    Black Chief Utabogg (Goblin - Easy)
    	100x Goblin Tongue → 50x 
    	10x Shadow Essence → 10x
    	1x Crystalized Magic → 0x 
    	1x Death Crystal → 1x 
    Queen Xeretrixx (Spider? - Medium)
    	200x Spider Eyes → 70x 
    	40x Spider Glands → 20x 
    	2x Soul Shards →1x 
    Malakar The Devourer (Ghoul - Medium)
    	80x Ghoul Saliva → 30x 
    	40x Plagued Remains → 20x 
    	2x Shard Corruption → 1x
    Lord Eoronn (Treant - Medium)
    	100x Living Wood → 40x
    	20x Mandrake Root → 10x
    	5x Treant Sap →  1x
    Zephyr, Spirit Of The Forest (Wisp - Medium)
    	200x Primordial Dust → 70x
    	10x Chipped Emerald → 10x
    	2x Spark Of Life → 1x
    	2x Crystalized Magic → 1x
    	1x Flawless Topaz → 1x
    Groove, Shaker Of Worlds (Earth Elemental - Hard)
    	200x Earth Essence → 70x
    	100x Primordial Dust → 40x
    	5x Pulsating Geode → 2x
    	1x Flawless Emerald → 1x
    Elder Mountain Troll (Troll - Hard)
    	40x Hardened Skin → 5x
    	10x Primordial Dust → 100x
    	5x Flawless Ruby → 5x
    Axfitmithiss, Frozen Plague (Spider Lich - Hard)
    	200x Spell Residue → 100x
    	20x Chipped Diamond → 10x
    	20x Chipped Amethyst → 10x
    	20x Chipped Sapphire → 10x
    	5x Orb Of Insanity → 2x

    Aerhen Legendary Altars

    Fenris – Lady of the Frozen Waste (Arctic Wolf – Easy)
    	100x Animal Bones → 50x
    	20x Beast Blood → 10x
    	20x Wolf Teeth → 5x
    	1x Glacial Breath → 1x
    Syr – Impaler of Giants (Mammoth – Medium)
    	400x Mammoth Meat → 150x
    	40x Beast Blood → 20x
    	5x Hardened Tusk Fragment → 2x
    Argadr the Stormcaller (Jotunn – Hard)
    	100x Jotunn Blood → 70x
    	80x Frost Essence → 30x
    	80x Storm Essence → 30x
    	20x Giant’s Heart → 40x Giant’s Heart 
    	4x Seer Stone → 2x Seer Stone
    Colossal Fire Construct (Unique – Medium)
    	200x Fire Essence → 100x
    	50x Primordial Dust → 50x
    	5x Cinder Pearl → 2x
    	1x Flawless Ruby →1x
    Colossal Ice Construct (Unique – Medium)
    	200x Frost Essence → 100x
    	50x Primordial Dust → 50x
    	5x Frozen Pearl → 2x
    	1x Flawless Topaz → 1x
    Colossal Storm Construct (Unique – Medium)
    	200x Storm Essence → 100x
    	50x Primordial Dust → 50x
    	5x Magnetic Gravel → 2x
    	1x Flawless Sapphire → 1x
    Colossal Crystalline Construct (Unique – Hard)
    	200x Spell Residue  → 150x
    	50x Primordial Dust → 50x
    	5x Crystallized Magic → 1x
    	1x Primal Flame Shard →1x
    	1x Primal Frost Shard →1x
    	1x Primal Storm Shard →1x

    This one is trash even if you reduce all the materials down to 1, costing 3 boss drops is crazy. It needs to drop some serious Crystalized magic to be worth it.

    Bugs and issues:

    Too many corpses stack, and you can’t cast/interact, make corspes dispawn faster.

    Hard Bosses:

    If you want to keep bosses being ‘’Rare’’ just make hard bosses , expensive and increase their drops ALOT

  • we dont the other legends cuz they dont work or we dont have a big enough party. Like, there should be a cash reward for the world first Crystal Elemantal Constuct SOLO kill. but reason 1 and 2 are it basically


    The change that resulted in legendary creatures being a gift to every griefer is what convinced me to stop playing after participating in every test since before Kickstarter.
    The amount of resources required to summon or the reward for killing doesn't matter to me.
    While there was a chance to kill a legendary without interruption, everything was fine for me. There was risk involved, but killing them was possible for me. Now, when they are announced, there's zero chance for me to kill one and hence no way to participate in any late game PvE content, or to gain enough KP to unlock a decent amount of skills/spells.

    Just my two cents of feedback.

  • Content Creator

    PvE world of Arborea won't have that problem, and is still supposed to have Legendary Creatures, so after 15th, you'll have that option Logain.

    Also, there is still plenty of KP available without even doing Legends. Between POI and Mobs, there is like 300k KP available, and that's before Arborea drops with additional mobs


    @GamerSeuss said in Feedback on Legends:

    PvE world of Arborea won't have that problem, and is still supposed to have Legendary Creatures, so after 15th, you'll have that option Logain.

    I'm well aware and it's the reason I'm going to give it a try.
    That said, Arboreus is (at launch) less than a quarter of the content (more than half is Syndesia and a bit less than a quarter is Tartaros) with less than 50 creatures. Basically all end-game content is PvP (Relics, 75% of Legendary, Asteroids), city conquest has taken month and month of development time now while alchemy, jewelry, enchanting and crafting are being treated as second hand and delayed. There's two instead of four possible play-styles at launch for Beastman (I wanted to play the old vision of the Udoadra). And it's odd to have Legendary creatures treated with a different design and mechanic on different planets (how does their design differ when they aren't PvP enticements).

    @GamerSeuss said in Feedback on Legends:

    Also, there is still plenty of KP available without even doing Legends. Between POI and Mobs, there is like 300k KP available, and that's before Arborea drops with additional mobs

    I know, but that's neither plenty nor the main point. I had all 'viable' creatures at 100% (only the two event spawning elders at 25%+ and the two bugged non spawning creatures at 0), all possible PoIs and resources, yet AceofSpaces (rightfully) insisted that in order to have a reasonable build and be 'allowed to voice your opinion on balancing', you'd need roughly three quarters of skills unlocked after 60 TP. Which means you have to get the KP from legendaries.
    Remember, I'm the one that showed you around at bone dragons and jotunns.

    The main point is, PvE content is limited enough as is and late game content is basically PvP exclusive right now. Once you've soloed all the 'minor creatures', you either decide to duel AceofSpades/IB at legendary spawns, or you start a new character. I have no chance to win against AceofSpades/IB (and it honestly looks like that's the case for most people given the legendary kill statistics?), so what's your suggestion? I'm all ears. Mine is to revert back to the system that worked.

  • Content Creator

    I actually agree, Legends should announce when defeated, not when summoned for the sake of PvEers who want to sneak in a Legend without PvP being almost guaranteed.

    As to KP vs Skills, at release, we've been told tgere will be approximately 400 skills available, of which you start with 4. Additional skills unlock for between 1000-3000 KP, split between the 3 "levels" of skills. Given thus an average cost of around 2000, you need only 400k Kp to learn every skill. As you can get 300k Kp without Legends, without Arboreas mobs and POIs, and tge same with Tartarus, it shouldn't be too hard to get 60TP and 2/3rds available skills without doing a single Legend.

    Also, remember, Ace's view are his, you don't have to comply with his standards to have fun or a fully enriching gaming experience with practiced.

    Yes, some PvE content is delayed, and some in game now needs work, but as any game designer knows, when building a game, you always work on the conflict resolution systems (combat-oriented) first and get them mechanically sound before you take other systems and Quality of Life/Story

    I want Alchemy. And advanced crafting, and cooking, and fishing too, but I realize it isn't a slight to me as a PvEer to have to wait for that. Shoot, Fishing was a Stretch goal and won't be added until after game release.

    Combat systems, especially in regards to balancing PvP are a big priority. Syndesia is also the hardest world because they want to get the mix right between incentives and punishments for PvP.


    So it seems that the biggest argument around Legendary Creatures is that now the summoning is announced and this puts PvP and PvE folks at odds. Understandable of course. What I don’t understand is why does it have to be totally one way or the other?

    On Arboreus there will be no PvP surrounding Legendary Creatures. On Tartaros there will only be PvP surrounding Legendary Creatures. It only makes sense then to share the amount of PvP and PvE access to Legendary Creatures on Syndesia.

    For example don’t announce the summoning of easy Legends, but announce the summoning of hard Legends. Then they can split the announcement of the medium level Legends. I personally don’t see any reason not to do this and it would make Syndesia a more agreeable place for both sides.

    Okay I am ready to hear why this is a terrible idea. puts on best armor

  • Content Creator

    I like some of what you have to say, sis (Stormbug) but I would like to see the PvE crowd able to do hard legends too without always a guarantee of a ganking.

    My proposal is instead of the 10 min warning, you give the announcement when they die, knowing a lot of groups bring enough Altar stuff for more than one summons anyway, and so their second or 3rd summons of the Legendary or more start to risk the PvP ganker squads, or, the PvP intensive groups can set up watcher camps near altars, like they do in some other games (like old EverQuest) so that they can notify their guildies when a PvE group is in the area looking to summon the Legends, but this way, Legends isn't absolutely guaranteed PvP content, which it will be once population on Syndesia is higher.

    Pvp and PvE are both supposed to be on Syndesia, however, non-voluntary PvP is supposed to be punished and discouraged on Syndesia. Syndesia is supposed to be more about consensual PvP, Raids, and Conquest situations.

  • DymStudios - CEO

    @spoletta @Junkie @AceofSpades the main reward of legends are the Lost Tales. You really don't care at all about those?

  • @Prometheus I actually very much like the Lost Tales, but I also like collecting things. I have only been able to do 2 legends so far. Fenris and Utabogg. I don't know if the others are even summonable...
    edit: did the spider quenn too, but that was probably back in May



    You are completely correct in that most of us bring enough items to do at least two summons if not three or more. This would make it reasonable to revert to the no announcement of a Legend spawn as then PvP folks would know at the death of a Legend that there is very likely a group summoning that Legend again. Another option would be to shorten the announcement time to something more reasonable like 5 minutes. The Legend would still take 10 minutes to summon but the announcement wouldn’t go out until 5 minutes had passed.

    The two options above also deters PvP folks from simply sitting around waiting for PvE folks to summon a Legend for them and never gathering the required items themselves.

    Please note that I am not trying to favor either side here. I am simply attempting to find a middle ground for both sides on Syndesia in regards to Legends.


    @Prometheus said in Feedback on Legends:

    the main reward of legends are the Lost Tales.

    You didn't name me in your question but I did want you to know that I love collecting the Lost Tales.


    @GamerSeuss said in Feedback on Legends:

    (...)as any game designer knows, when building a game, you always work on the conflict resolution systems (combat-oriented) first and get them mechanically sound (...) I want Alchemy (...) Combat systems, especially in regards to balancing PvP are a big priority(...)

    As every software engineer knows, when programming, you always try to avoid constantly reworking the same code snippets. Balancing usually is the last step in development, when the product is feature complete, because with more features, old balancing more often than not becomes moot and has to be attempted again.
    Consumables and persistent buffs (alchemy and relics) should drastically influence balancing in PvP, so that should be a high priority on a roadmap.

  • Moderator

    @Prometheus I actually posted that because Ace can't log on the forum 😛

    But since you asked, I feel like the bigger reward from legends are actually their legendary reagents. The pages are not that important, the world of Syndesia alone gives you all the KP you could ever wish for.
    This is the reason why I also opened a separate thread on balancing the reagent aspects
    Right now the "profitability" of a legend is tied a lot to the aspects of its legendary reagent, and those aspects are wildly unbalanced.
    Crimson Claw reagent for example has a "Destroy" aspect. Destroy is used in a grand total of ZERO combinations, so his reagent has actually only 2 aspects.


    @StormBug said in Feedback on Legends:

    (...)What I don’t understand is why does it have to be totally one way or the other(...)

    There's a slight problem, namely the amount of finished content for PvE players upon release (which is when most people are going to play the game and when most people are going to judge it). There's going to be one medium PvE exclusive continent, but one medium full PvP continent and one medium and one large mixed continent. To be quite frank, in order to have a decent experience for a considerable amount of time, a PvE player is going to need to experience content from Syndesia upon launch and for many month afterwards.
    Cities on Syndesia are a great example of good design in this context, a player can engage in PvP content when desired, but can access all functionality and features without as well (you can settle outside of town and never help with defense).
    Anything that completely removes and blocks PvE content, or parts of the PvE content might have a better alternative, especially while PvE content is sparse.


    The only people hurting for KP and would need the pages are Mages who want to unlock just about all the abilities.... otherwise the pages are just the quick and easy route to get kp for talents without having to hunt mobs.
    It is very easy for me to imagine that big guilds like IB may have trunks full of pages just waiting for when they make an alt and then use them to buff their KP up fast for talent points and then only hunt the mobs that have the skills they want to try out.
    It makes much more sense than kp hunting the entire maps and all mobs.

    Once we get T3 gear and are able to do T3 enchants (all with world boss drops presumably) then -=that=- is what people will be fighting and pvp'ing for. not the pages.


    @OlivePit said in Feedback on Legends:

    The only people hurting for KP and would need the pages are Mages who want to unlock just about all the abilities...(...) T3 gear (...) is what people will be fighting and pvp'ing for(...)

    Which, if the case, would mean Fractured is now completely vertical progress with a 60 TP hard cap and no longer horizontal progress as was intended.

  • Moderator

    I actually think that PvP will happen over food, which is the real critical resource of the game (the more you have, the bigger your cities). T3 has been presented as something very hard to do and not necessarily better, just more specialized. I read that as a PvE min maxer kind of thing, not really something you chase for PvP.

  • Content Creator

    @Logain no way Fractured can be completely Horizontal. Even I admit that. It is, however, about as Horizontal as a game can get away with and still be fun and have combat themes at all.

    Advancement is still based more around versatility than actual power creep. The game just takes a Rock/Paper/Scissors approach to some combat situations. Did you load-out the best Skills/Gear to face this Mob? Did you anticipate what this PvP opponent brought to the battle?

    A brand new player and a 2yr vet can still take on a new mob together and both get KP, both feel useful, and if need be, just give the newer player some spare gear for that second outing against that mob, and switch out a skill or two to better contribute.


    @StormBug said in Feedback on Legends:

    (...)puts on best armor

    I'd like to provide an alternative suggestion and would love feedback.

    As far as I'm aware, Syndesia is supposed to be about sparse lawful PvP (which is why we have a prison and different drop rules) and enticed coordinated GvG (guild vs guild or group versus group).

    Cities already require a certain amount of prestige, buildings provide prestige and cities have a maintenance depending on their level. If, after a certain level, prestige is an added maintenance 'fee', private homes inside cities no longer provide prestige, and Legendaries provide prestige depending on the difficulty (analog to how they 'score' now) and on the situation, there would be a constant enticement.

    • If a Legendary creature is summoned by a 'good' player, the 'difficulty' is set to 0 (or bitmasked, if the difficulty is required elsewhere as a dependency) and is not announced upon summoning, but 'normally after killing'.

    • If a Legendary creature is summoned by a 'neutral/bad' player, the difficulty stays as is (easy/medium/hard), the summoning is announced (and the kill) and if a neutral/bad player kills a Legendary, a certain amount of prestige is awarded to the city they are part of (depending on difficulty and participation).

    This requires a minimal amount of code change (~10 lines of code in total), PvE players have a 'fair chance' to participate in late game PvE content and gather KP/reagents, PvP players have a constant enticement for GvG battles (in order to sustain big cities with prestige), there is a constant small market for summoning reagents, cities no longer need private houses in order to get to a certain level and part of the 'log out and log in'-upkeep for farming city maintenance food is shifted towards active gameplay

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