Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime
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@vengu said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
(...)Because Phaethonas wants to kill Fractured. That's the sole reason he's here.
Isn't that a rather harsh personal attack? He even provided suggestions on how to improve the system against players trying to circumvent it. If destruction would be his whole purpose, why would he do that?
@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
(...)players who will defend the land (like me)(...)
Gosh! I really, really want to play a Beastman, but now you're tempting me to try my luck as Demon... Would you happen to have a free spot for me in your army @Phaethonas and @Jetah if I'd play 'part time demon'?
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@logain I always said I would go for Human, nothing new. My main activity after grinding fame on Albion was killing pkers in the red/yellow zone
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Now, I can only hope there isn't some main quest or quest that gives very good rewards on specific planets. Would suck ass. One thing I hate though is directly treating certain races as certain types of players. Why must I be regarded as some lawless PVP guy if I only wanted to play the demon race for a sexy succubus character?
Woe is me. Anyways, I actually don't mind races but it kind of sucks to have to choose a certain race and get locked into a more PVE or PVP character and having a preferred planet. Really takes exploration out of the game. It also sucks especially since I doubt you can change races (correct me if I'm wrong). Sometimes life is busy and people hop in between casual/hardcore. It is probably not uncommon for people to make friends across races in most MMORPGs, but I think Fractured is actively discouraging this. The tradeoff I guess is players of a certain race will get to bond together even more. Seriously though, I don't really like games when races matter A LOT (makes customization limited). I know a lot of players might praise you for this and that, but I just have to state my honest opinion on how Fractured is developing as I see it in my eyes.TL;DR While I think Fractured introduces a lot of systems in a nice story/lore format, I also think many rules in Fractured actually restricts a lot of freedom and restricts players according to their race.
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@chrightt I don't see it sorry! The restrinction is based on alignment and not the race. And I'm happy that's like this because restrinctions are needed in a world full of carebears seekers. If you like to play as demon but not as fully pvper just start redeem it. Go on Syndesia and turn Neutral. As neutral you will be able to move more freely. The debuffs are lorewise and it's cool same as the idea behind the eclips. Making everyting easy explorable at 100% would be not funny. They made a great choice by me. I think we should wait to test the game and see how it will work.
About relationships behind races I don't see problems neither. WoW has 2 factions with different races so also there you have to choose and it's never been a problem.
- neutral can be friendly with all races
- good can be friendly between humans, beastmen and angels (redeemed Demons)
- evil can be friendly between demons, humans and abominations (renegade Beastmen)
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas you are missing two things:
- evil alignments will be debuffed
- every mob/npc will attack evil alignments
So you have to care about mobs not only players who will defend the land (like me).
@Prometheus I hope that mobs/npc will scale up to avoid grouping/zerghing them down. So every player partecipating to attack/kill it (this means attacks, assists, heals) will scale that mob npc (gaining more hp and damage).Why would you be at Arboreus defending the land? Didn't you say that you would be at the human planet?
Regardless, the "Unholy Legion" will attack in waves one after the other. The NPC mobs will be easy to be dealt with and debuffs will be a nuisance, but when wave after wave demons and evil humans will be attacking Arboreus, the beastmen will be running and will be trying to hide.
And I will say again; The harder you make it for evil aligned players (and specifically demons) to make it at Arboreus the worse it will be for the game.
Not only the devs will have teased players with FFA pvp at Arboreus, only for it to be taken it from them, but more importantly, the resources of Arboreus will be unavailable to demons. Evil humans will find the Arboreus materials at their planet, brought there from "good" humans, but as good demons will be rare (because who makes a demon to be good, let alone the difficulty of making a good demon) the demon planet will be devoid of Arboreus materials. This will create an imbalance at the economy and that is something you don't want.
In the end of the day the devs are trying to please everyone, and as I have said so many times, that is impossible. Literally impossible. Everyone needs to make compromises. The pvpers, the pvers, the devs. Otherwise the game will simply fail.
mat that can't be found at Tartaros, it is needed and can be found plentiful at Arboreus.
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@gibbx said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas oki here is an example of the worst kind of gamer. you have a whole planet devoted to PVP. why do you feel you have to take PVP to a PVE planet and ruin the gamers playing experience there?
Why? Did you miss the memo in which it was clearly stated that each planet will have unique resources?
Why? Well, because I can.
If the devs want Arboreus protected at all times, then they should simply make a game like that and they should not make a mechanic which will allow invasions/travelling. In that case though they have to forget about their resources/economy plans as well.
How many times must I say this; You can't please everyone, you can't do everything.
If you want each planet to have its unique economy system, then in order for the overall economy not to be imbalanced you need the travelling mechanic. But as each planet is organized according to its rule-set, you will have people with different playstyles interacting. As a pvper I can compromise, to a degree, and have my life be difficult at the peaceful/pve planet. What is this degree? As long as the economy works.
The first thing I said was that 30 minutes are not enough. Are not enough for me to go, find the resources I need, gather them and leave. You know what this means? This means that I will seek help. And instead of a raging demon, you end up having a group of us.
Wanna know a fun fact? I don't need Fractured to be a pvp game. My "Unicorn" pvp game is Camelot Unchained. Having found that, I am seeking another game for my "pve tendencies". So, initially I wanted to play a beastman and maybe make a defense force. Proof of that is that my initial "hero" was a beastman. Now it is a demon. Now, I am more interested into being a demon. My idea of the "Unholy Alliance" intrigues me. Now, I want to make this "Unholy Alliance" because it seems that the demons are drawing the short stick. They get the poor planet and they can't even be for more than 30 minutes in the rich planet.
So, choose;
You can't have it all, I can't have it all, the devs can't have it all.
PS
Lady Luck smiles at the "Unholy Alliance". This is the 66th post and the thread has 666 views!
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I would respond to this but there is obviously no point. good luck and enjoy my claws in your entrails when you attack my home.
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@phaethonas I agree with your general sentiment, but I doubt Tartaros can be characterized as the poor planet.
According to the main site:
Not all resources are fine with being harvested. Fur, hides, bones, carapaces and several other key crafting components can only be obtained through PVE combat. If you’re an avid monster hunter, Tartaros will be your dreamland… or perhaps your worst nightmare.
It will likely have the riskiest, hardest to obtain resources. Demons will also likely be the least played race, making for less competition selling those resources. I'm hoping Tartaros will actually have the potential to be the most lucrative planet to balance out the risk.
Also, I'm so in on this Arboreus invasion.
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@phaethonas I don't care about economy, I just care to kill stuff for example. About where I will play.. well Syndesia is just for the siege! Arboreus for pve and killing pkers. For sure after the new spotlight I will play differently. The challange to roll an Angel is so apetizing. For sure I'm not up for zergs in a full loot game. I also think that zergs will never happens on Arboreus otherwise pve players will not play it.
A balance would be pkers has to fight carebears + mobs/npc at the same time.Thi way giving somekind of help to those who like avoid PvP. Ofc mobs and npc must scale based on enemy number attacking/tagging/assisting.
the resources of Arboreus will be unavailable to demons
I'm lolling. You want kill people not gathering. Otherwise you go on Arboreus to get your resources in 30mins. So stop talk about resources. Tartaros got resources too that are not on Arboreus and will be hard to get them for beastmen.
Remeber that you don't know how hard will be travel. 30 mins per day means: do I zerg? or do I try to gather few resources I may need?
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@phaethonas Can I vote to called the Demonic Alliance?
I'll agree with what you said and have no problems joining the cause!@Target How appropriately named..
@Finland I was under the impression that Demons would have to fight the player and environment on Arboreus.
Maybe phaethonas wants to guard demons that want to gather there? Best defense is to kill everyone else. If the 30 minutes stands then it'll be tricky, however, sending a few harvesters with the group means we get both resources and zerg.
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@jetah zerg is a bad game design. Just a spam of AoE talents/abilities/spells. I really hope to not see it.
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@finland Zerg is the name of a unit in Starcraft. Zerg works because it's all about higher numbers. Friendly fire, player collision helps deter zergs but numbers matter in a video game. Even skill is limited to numbers behind the game.
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@jetah that's why I hate zerg vs zerg just numbers matter.
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@jetah said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas Can I vote to called the Demonic Alliance?
Sure, I am always open to democracy. That said, I suggested the term "Unholy Alliance" cause it would include evil humans and even abominations as well.
So all of Tartaros will be the "Demonic Alliance" and the Demonic Alliance will have allies from other races (see evil humans and abominations) which will form the "Unholy Alliance".
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas I don't care about economy, I just care to kill stuff for example.
The irony of that comment is over 9000!
I, the "ganker", "the pvper who wants to ruin everyone game", care about the economy (and as such the game's success) and the defender of the care bears (Finland) cares only for killing stuff!!
Oh the irony! I adore irony.
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@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
I'm lolling. You want kill people not gathering. Otherwise you go on Arboreus to get your resources in 30mins. So stop talk about resources. Tartaros got resources too that are not on Arboreus and will be hard to get them for beastmen.
Remeber that you don't know how hard will be travel. 30 mins per day means: do I zerg? or do I try to gather few resources I may need?
No, actually I came to Fractured because I want to kill NPCs! If I want to go and kill people I will go to a pure pvp game, these are being made at the moment.
That said, it was evident from day 1 that care bears wanted pvpers to be marked as the bad guys who only want to gank people. Well, that is untrue. A pvper can't have much fun by ganking easy targets, pvpers want challenges.
The care bears got what they wanted, pvers to be marked as the "bad guys" and have a very hard time at Arboreus. The irony of that (I LOVE IRONY!) is that by doing so two things happened;
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The pvpers now have a great challenge in their hands and it is called "Arboreus invasions". As I said, that incentivises pvpers to go and invade Arboreus en masse because we (pvpers) love challenges.
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The economy gets unbalanced. No matter how many times you say it, the facts remains facts. And the fact is that 30 minutes are not enough for me to go and gather mats. Remember, I will be in an unknown area, where I will have to tackle both debuffs and the "wild life"/NPCs, where I won't know where the harvesting nodes or however you wanna call them are, and to actually gather the material (e.g. chop wood). That is literally impossible. As such players will band together in order to tackle the challenging mechanics the game will offer to them.
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@target said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas I agree with your general sentiment, but I doubt Tartaros can be characterized as the poor planet.
Well, when I read the following I get the feeling that it will be the "poor planet".
Tartaros is the smallest of all the planets of the Elysium Ring. Notwithstanding its size, its walkable surface is similar in area to the one of Arboreus and Syndesia, since it is mostly covered by land. It’s a hot, arid world, plagued by a constant volcanic activity and scarce in edible resources.
Stone is common on Tartaros – sandstone, granite and obsidian in particular – and frequently used by demons to erect the buildings of their unholy cities. Metals besides iron are rare, but weapons made of the latter have already taken the life of thousands of creatures, in Tartaros and outside.
Due to the lack of water, agriculture is practically unfeasible on Tartaros, which forces demons to get most of their food by hunting the fearsome creatures that inhabit the planet. Whether demons would be interested in agriculture is doubtful anyway, considering patience is not exactly a virtue of theirs – if they have any virtue, that is.
Demons usually wear clothes made of leather crafted from the skin of their preys, since wild plants are also rare to come by – and when they can be found, they’re only suitable to be harvested for wood or hard fibers to make strings and ropes
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@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:
@phaethonas I don't care about economy, I just care to kill stuff for example.
The irony of that comment is over 9000!
I, the "ganker", "the pvper who wants to ruin everyone game", care about the economy (and as such the game's success) and the defender of the care bears (Finland) cares only for killing stuff!!
Oh the irony! I adore irony.
Killing mobs = killing stuff. I have never said I dislike killing players. I enjoy arenas and battlegrounds. I mostly play moba and fps but I hate people like *** going to kill carebears.
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@phaethonas talents/abilities are not related to the gear like Albion this means you can fight naked. Good point to avoid grinding in a game where you can lose things. If the game will be unbalanced somehow well give the right feedback
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@finland
Why do people like to use WoW when it is such a crappy example. There are games like WoW where a large part of success was due to timing. I know there are multiple games with 2 factions each with their own race, but those are games designed to pit faction against faction like WoW and Archeage. What I think Fractured is trying to do is actually different. There isn't two "factions" fighting against each other so there isn't any faction war either. This makes races weigh much more.As I see it, "Demons are born with a strongly negative Karma – and they can’t make it better on their home planet." This means that they will always be strongly negative on Tartaros isn't that right? Doesn't this mean when other people come to Tartaros I'm just a prime target because, "However, other players can also do so against you, without consequences – such as being flagged as Thief or Murderer or losing Karma. In fact, they will gain Karma by getting the world rid of you!" when you are of evil alignment. Other than that I do see your point though, alignment allows us to change our race's nature, but our race still gets specific buffs/rules for specific planets.
