Questions for roadmap for planet design
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The original design intention seemed to be generating a unique set of creatures, resources and landscape for each of the three planets, which would entice people to travel between planets in order to both unlock all knowledge and craft the 'highest tier' equipment.
Since @Prometheus has hinted several times now they wouldn't rule out a 2022 release, I wonder if we could get a bit of information regarding this design (or possible changes, given that designing these creatures, resources and landscape seems an overly daunting task for a single year, including testing) and how the restrictions of the technology tree of Humans is going to be mimicked for Demons and Beastman.
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Not a Dev, but the assumption I have is that they have 1 or 2 of their programmers specifically working on the 'What's to Come' elements of the game. They would base a lot of it on what is already going on.
An example, unique creatures on the other planets may involve little more than putting a new skin on an existing creature, and mayhaps tweaking their stats or skill set slightly, and assigning a different skill unlock or two. Like a Bear could be replaced with an Owlbear ono Arborea, and some kind of Demonic Warthog on Tartarus. Similar movesets, but the warthog might do bleed damage, and the owlbear might get an enrage skill, who knows.
I'm not sure how they plan to balance out the Tech Tree from Syndesia on the other worlds, but I'm excited to find out, and I'm sure there is some in-house testing going on over these elements if they think they can still possibly make a 2022 release. Either that, or they figure once the kinks are worked out on Syndesia, the rest of the Development should accelerate considerably.
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As Doc said, i am quite sure, they already work on the assets of the other planets.
Sure, there need to be totally different skillsets for beastmen and demons, than we have now for humans. Also the houses and the environment need to have a totally different look.
That is much work, design wise.
But as Prometheus stated in many Q&As before, the hardest part to make are humans, since they have core elements of both planets. So the best choice was, to implement all the core of the system on this planet.
Once all core mechanics works well, you have just to adapt them to Tartaros and Arboreus. At the one you turn on full PVP possibilities, while you disable them almost entirely at the other.
There is one core mechanic that you just can test once all planets are implemented, thats the Travel mechanic between the Planets.All in all, i am also very curious, how the whole game will work and look like.
But with my realistic
i would not prefer to get any other planet till we don't have all core mechanics at the planet that we have now.
And there is several stuff open, that we could not test yet and many bugs, that have to get fixed.
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@GamerSeuss said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)putting a new skin on an existing creature(...)
That's exactly what I'm worried about and hope is not going to happen.
Just to be clear, I'm not wondering how to 'speed up development the easy and cheap way', I'm well aware of these strategies. A simple texture change for a prefab, like the goblin archer/enforcer is easy enough to accomplish, but adds nothing to the game in my humble opinion. If I'd take the massive effort to travel to a new planet, I'd be seriously disappointed to find all the same creatures, reagents, materials and biomes simply with a slightly different texture and name.@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)So the best choice was, to implement all the core of the system on this planet(...)
Certainly, I'm not disputing this.
@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)here is one core mechanic that you just can test once all planets are implemented, thats the Travel mechanic between the Planets(...)
That's the most difficult to implement though, even if SpatialOS is going to simplify the process a bit. Anything less than 6 month would be a serious surprise for me. There's a couple more differences, like the attribute bonus/malus, the special abilities, the planetary traveling alignment influence (eg. how a Demon works on the beastman planet PvP setting wise), but that's not my main concern. My point is the unique and distinctive content for each of the planets that makes exploring them worthwhile is a giant endeavor.
@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)ill we don't have all core mechanics at the planet that we have now(...)
What CORE mechanic are we missing?
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@Logain said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
What CORE mechanic are we missing?
it's not that we're missing them, it's that we're still balancing them, changing around talents, adjusting PvP, etc...
City Sieges and Raids are barely in their infancy for instance.
Also, as I said above, it's not just about applying a new skin, but certan 'basic creatures' will probably get that treatment to a degree. It only makes sense. The rest, they apply the skin to a creature with a similar build and movement to what they are after, and then they change up the special abilities and attributes on those creatures to make them new and unique.
Every planet needs basic creatures, equivalent to wolves and bears and rabbits and stags, but with the other planet's flavor skinned over them, but then Goblins and Trolls and Ogres can be replaced and augmented to fit their new world and be truly unique.
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@GamerSeuss said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)we're still balancing them(...)
Balancing should happen during beta, when the product is function complete.
Finish the core mechanics of the minimal viable product, then get the product function complete, then fine-tune the product.You have to consider that we're already past the initially planned funding for the project and that can't be extended for an unlimited amount. We're at a stage that would have been roughly 30 month from a release according to the original schedule, which should be compressed down to just 12 month. A 2022 release would mean cutting down the originally planned 18 month of beta testing down to less than 6 month.
In their own words... '(...)Three Gameplays paradigm, which is undoubtedly one of the most unique features of Fractured, you can be sure it will be given the due priority!(...)', however if funding runs short and little progress has been made on that functionality, it might have to be rushed or even scrapped. That's what I'm worried about.@GamerSeuss said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)Goblins and Trolls and Ogres can be replaced and augmented to fit their new world and be truly unique.
And if you take a look into how long it takes/took to implement Ogres and Goblins alone and you have to multiply that by two (Arboreus and Tartaros), add the generation of planets including cities which have to work different from the human planet and hence have to be placed different (e.g. no conquest on Arboreus means you have to design 'replacing player rotation' different) and you want to squeeze that into less than 6 month, but you don't see any reason for concern on a lack of quality.
You're a very optimistic person and I hope your optimism turns out different then your prediction that New World won't reduce the amount of playtesting on the last Alpha.
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@Logain Actually, mechanics and Balancing is more an Alpha thing. Beta is for adding in QoL and expanding the overall game territory, putting in those elements based on the originally balanced mechanics established in Alpha.
As I also said before, I'm sure they are already working on the other mobs for the other planets, so they can plug their graphics into the established mechanics and make the necessary adjustments to make it all work but feel different from world to world.
I also pointed out that they far overshot their monetary goals as established by the Kickstarter, and then even managed a financial backer beyond that, so the risk of them running out of money is actually a whole lot lower than originally anticipated. They don't have money to burn, but they do have enough money to be comfortable in keeping up development at their current pace, and handle unexpected delays. They are ahead of the game in the financing department.
Yes, their schedule has stretched out further than originally anticipated, but the state of the world at large has had a huge effect on that. I still believe they are going strong, and that if they were not, they would tell us, and be doing a huge funding drive to compensate for that. Prometheus even said he wouldn't rule out a 2022 release, as unlikely as that might be. I think they are figuring that Beta isn't going to take as many tests as originally planned, as most things are getting ironed out in Alpha to the point that Beta should be a breeze.
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great conversation! The core differences btw the planets, for me, have always been in terms of ecosystems & pvp/pve rules. I hadn't given much thought to having entirely different fauna on each planet, but now that you mention it, it wouldn't make sense to have completely different ecosystems/flora and not have planet-specific fauna. Duh me, right?
So far I've been truly impressed with the creativity and organic 'rightness' of the mobs on Syndesia, even w balance issues. I'm willing to wait and trust that the other planets will be populated just as thoughtfully.
Like many watching this forum, I'm waiting with 'bated breath for Arboreus.
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Since the three worlds were originally one it would make sense (in my mind) that the animal life would overlap with some minor differences and perhaps a few unique species on each planet. Since it sounds like the majority of game play will take place on one's home planet this really shouldn't pose an issue. Populating each world really should not be a huge issue.
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@GamerSeuss said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)mechanics and Balancing is more an Alpha thing(...)
shrugs If you say so.
I'd argue that Alpha is the point where you implement functionality, whereas Beta is the point where the product is function complete and balancing when not all functionality is implemented yet means you have to do it again once all functionality is implemented, since (hopefully) systems are interdependent.@GamerSeuss said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)they are ahead of the game in the financing department(...)
shrugs again Right, if you say so. I don't know details on their finance and I seriously doubt that you do.
I'm not claiming they are in financial trouble, but that such a situation might arise if they extend their original estimate too much, in which case the product would have to be rushed out, which is why most important functionality should be implemented first wherever possible.--
All that said, I'm not here to actually discuss the topic, but am hoping for the only person who actually knows anything (Prometheus) to provide some information and to act as the (inconvenient, but sometimes important) reminder that this is a common pitfall for projects (No Man's Sky 'Multiplayer', Chronicles of Elyria, the list is long...).
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@Logain well, as to provided information, Prometheus has flat out said that they are ahead financially, and that they blew their funding goals out of the water. He also went on to say he had then, already ahead, got a financial backer for even more funding, allowing them to double their programmers. That is what Prometheus has already said, it is not just conjecture.
Prometheus will update us on the roadmap when he can, but as others have stated, and so will I, it is far more important that he gets work done on the project, over always holding our hands over it.
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Financially they're in a great spot right now, by far the best spot they've been in since the start of development. There have been a bunch of very succesful investment rounds since last summer. I cannot say how much they've raised so far but it's a lot of money, hence why they're able to double the team size. Last time I talked with Prometheus about it he told me they had already hired 3 new devs. (2 artists and a programmer I believe) and he was still looking for more.
As for the release date, I don't know if they're still aiming for 2022 (I'll have to ask Prometheus) but I do know that should the launch be postponed, it's not going to cause financial issues anytime soon based on the current information I have.
With that said, I can confirm they're certainly already working on the next planet. I can't talk about the internal roadmap though so I'll leave it at that.
Unfortunately a lot of my answers boil down to "I can't talk about it!
" but that's how these things go. All I can say is that right now, the company is in a very good position thanks to all the funding they've raised lately, good enough that they're able to expand significantly for the first time since the start of development. 
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@Logain said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)here is one core mechanic that you just can test once all planets are implemented, thats the Travel mechanic between the Planets(...)
That's the most difficult to implement though
Fully agree, alone the balancing will be a pain in the a..
What CORE mechanic are we missing?
Alchemy, Herbalism, Cooking
- means the whole system about Food & Potions & other Consumables
Seasons & Temperature & Weather
- Biome Differences (hot/cold)
- Impact to farming (grow times/values) and expeditions (take a warm cape with you, when you go to the mountains)
Decay
- for what was the Carpenter NPC meant to be?
Interplanetary
- Of Course, all the stuff about interplanetary traveling. Means making portals.
In general are also the already implemented core features not entirely completed at all.
In my opinion the town system needs still work on it, including the siege system.
In PVP they are trying out things, but i am still missing a meaning for PVP Factions.
Two points that came directly in my mind.
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@Specter said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
"I can't talk about it! "
You don't need to be sad about that.
Everyone who is expecting anything else from you, should just leave you alone.
It is not your responsibility to make statements about the company to the public.There is someone who can make Dynamights business stuff transparent, that is Prometheus and he will talk about, if he is thinking that it is important for us.
Till then, we just can go with the last statements from his side and Specters above, we don't need to be concerned about the finances, they got even enough to hire more people. Now they just have to deliver.
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@Specter said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)I cannot say how much they've raised so far but it's a lot of money, hence why they're able to double the team size(...)
The numbers certainly can (and should) not be disclosed and hiring additional team members is a great achievement, but one that comes at a cost. I'm aware that they managed to gain investor(s) (though Prometheus never provided a follow up on that topic like he announced). With the added salary, the burn rate increases (Chronicles of Elyria hired massively only a year before having to shut down because the burn rate had been raised and the income couldn't be sustained) and off predictions on development schedule have an increased impact, even if the investors have no say on a premature release (which is what happened with No Man's Sky).
I'm passionate and hopeful on the project, but I always prefer developers taking a pessimistic stance on preparation, meaning you try to get a minimal viable product ready as soon as possible and then expand on that. If you're forced to push the product out early, this strategy pays off.@Specter said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)I can confirm they're certainly already working on the next planet(...)
Thank you, that's all the information I was really looking to get.
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@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)means the whole system about Food & Potions & other Consumables(...) Decay (...)
That core system has been implemented. Consumable and timers/scheduling are already part of the game, what's lacking isn't functionality but content.
@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)Seasons & Temperature & Weather*(...)
Are you sure that we're going to have local difference and not planet based difference?
@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)Interplanetary(...)
Well, yes, that's part of what I'm talking about when I was requesting more focus on 'planets'.
@Kralith said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
(...)already implemented core features not entirely completed(...)
Yes, from what I read, SpatialOS should be ECS based, which means one can fully reap the benefits of modular and abstract design paradigm. Or, in other words, '(...)make it work, make it right, make it fast(...)' [Kent Beck]. Get the core components done, then work on content, then work on balancing.
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@Logain said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
Are you sure that we're going to have local difference and not planet based difference?
Prometheus had said, somewhere, I can't recall where, that we would have different affects based on biomes at least, and that each planet would have multiple distinct biomes.
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Looking at Myr, I would expect the coast to have a different temperature than Shadow Vale's desert.
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@Logain said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
Yes, from what I read, SpatialOS should be ECS based, which means one can fully reap the benefits of modular and abstract design paradigm. Or, in other words, '(...)make it work, make it right, make it fast(...)' [Kent Beck]. Get the core components done, then work on content, then work on balancing.
Yes i know, SpatialOS take much work from the devs, since you just can use stuff that is already designed. Just reference it with your own parameters.
But that you can't take for a part of "make it work", would be like if you say, hey, there is a computer, he can make pixels on a monitor, so we can go directly to the "make it right" part if you not even used that tool to draw somehow a picture to the monitor before.
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Would a tiered release be a possibility? In terms of, release the human planet first. a month-quarter-whatever-later release the beast planet. as those would probably be the biggest player base. then release Tartaros much later?
It might be possible to release a cosmetic pack tied to the release of the 3 planets too. IE more human stylized cosmetics for their release. more beast stylized cosmetics for their release, etc. then release the best cosmetics for Tartaros!
I know games are never finished but I do believe in releasing a MVP.
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@Jetah said in Questions for roadmap for planet design:
Would a tiered release be a possibility? In terms of, release the human planet first. a month-quarter-whatever-later release the beast planet. as those would probably be the biggest player base. then release Tartaros much later?
That would be a real dissapointment for those planning to play on Tartaros or Arboreus (myself) as our main hub. I am sure the youngster nowaday would use different wording if that situation would occur
It would mean a differrent set of rules (PvP/PvE wise) while waiting for those 2 planets to become available and postpone the creation of your own town/settlement, which is one of the reason I invested a bit more than average in this game
