The PvE vs PvP Thread
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@vengu can still invade though.
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@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
Yeah, I thought as much!
So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!
As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.
Other than EVE, which open world PvP game is succesful? Darkfall keeps dying, Mortal Online got a few hundred players left, Albion is dying, WoW is overhauling its PvP servers, etc.
and your point is what? that pvpers don't exist?
Other than EVE, the rest games you mentioned (with the exception of Darkfall which was and is just bad) are being designed for pvers and they have added pvp just to attract pvpers. As those games are designed for pvers though, pvpers are not having fun at them.
So, a game that is designed for pvpers is valid.
If you disagree, then please don't play games that are designed for pvpers and go play a pve oriented game.
What are you talking about? Fractured has a planet solely designed for PvE players. Do you think this is a PvP oriented game? Also, if you think that games like Mortal Online and Albion are PvE oriented games, I don't know what to say...
Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging
So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?
Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.
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@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging
So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?
Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.
My main purpose is not to kill pvers. And the moment pvers leave (if that happens, which I doubt), then I will be killing pvpers.
What I did say was that if you chose to be a beastkin, don't expect to leave peacefully ever after. The game has the concept of demon invasions.
As to my preferences? They are not that important as long as I accept the game for what it is. To your own words, you want to force changes to the game.
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@phaethonas I don't know how will be the game. So changes are based on other games
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@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted.
Thanks god, I'm so happy about these clarifications. I can hide there for a safe and peaceful life and move on Syndesia or Tartaros for some good PvP.
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That being said, Fractured is still a sandbox MMO - you won't have a questline to follow, you won't be spoon-fed the content of the game, crafting, trading and building are a huge part of the Fractured experience - easily more than PvE, if one wants to - and so on. If someone is looking for the new WoW, he won't find it here :slight_smile:
That's more than enough. I prolly abused of the term pve, i like dungeons and raids but for pve I meant a safe place where play.
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Is Fractured a PvE or PvP game?
Fractured is both! The developers want Fractured to appeal to wide range of players, including players who are interested in PvE. Fractured will have PvE content like dungeons and recurring PvE events.Thanks for this too considering that many thinks that Fractured is just a full PvP game, or to better say the core of the game is PvP. I'm really happy and way more excited after this. Could have all the right credentials for large player base.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging
So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?
Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.
My main purpose is not to kill pvers. And the moment pvers leave (if that happens, which I doubt), then I will be killing pvpers.
What I did say was that if you chose to be a beastkin, don't expect to leave peacefully ever after. The game has the concept of demon invasions.
As to my preferences? They are not that important as long as I accept the game for what it is. To your own words, you want to force changes to the game.
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
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@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
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@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.
Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.
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@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.
Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.
pvp is pvp it doesn't matter if it's beast, human or demon. both intention is to fight against another player. why would a person play a game where they can be in a situation to pvp if they hate it? I genuinely don't understand the philosophy behind it.
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.
Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.
pvp is pvp it doesn't matter if it's beast, human or demon. both intention is to fight against another player. why would a person play a game where they can be in a situation to pvp if they hate it? I genuinely don't understand the philosophy behind it.
Because there are also situations where pvp is not gonna happen,or safe spots,but hey don't underestimate beastmen
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The problem I have always had with MMOs that do both is they end up balancing to one end. Be it PvP or PvE, one side is considered over the other for balance and that side is usually PvP. PvE can at times suffer for it. I just hope that whatever they chose for the game they stick with it. You do at times have to step on a few toes, some of those toes are attached to the loudest people, but in the end its the developers creation, their long term vision. Games fail fast when the developer is second guessing their vision.
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I seriously hope you guys can pull off the mix of PvE and PvP together, because pretty much all games I know who tried to mix the 2 together has failed and resulted in the PvP people hunting the PvE people as they are easy targets up to a point where the PvE players just stopped playing.
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It's just a question of mentality. I don't really like PvP, so, I play as a beastmen. I like to kill everybody I see, so, I play demon. You have a lot of people to kill on Tartaros, so why do you want to go on Arboreus, where you'll have high debuffs, just to...bully people who just want to play in peace instead of rest in peace ? Personnaly, I will play demon because I like the race. I'm not a huge fan of PvP, but I'll try (we only live once
). But if somebody don't want to be killed because it's the third time in a day he is killed, I'll let him go, I don't want to ruin the game of others.
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@Esher @EvolGrinZ @Jetah @Juan514 @Mazikar @Miffi @Phaethonas @Vengu Just read the main post.
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Over the past few weeks, I've seen a lot of discussions pop up about PvE vs PvP. Unfortunately, this discussion is currently taking place in the thread about goldsellers and DDoS attacks, which is not exactly about PvE vs PvP. :slight_frown: That's why I've decided to move this discussion to a new thread.
In addition to that, I would like to clear up a few misconceptions that popped up during those discussions.
Is Fractured a PvE or PvP game?
Fractured is both! The developers want Fractured to appeal to wide range of players, including players who are interested in PvE. Fractured will have PvE content like dungeons and recurring PvE events.Can Demons raid Arboreus?
Demons can travel to Arboreus just like other races can travel to other planets. However, Arboreus lacks a major PvP event like the eclipse event that takes place on Syndesia.
Also, I would like to highlight a post written by Prometheus about this subject:
Thanks for starting this thread @Logain, we've been following it with a lot of interest. I see it mostly evolved into a PvP vs PvE discussion, which seems to be very frequent on the forums these days - so I'll address that specifically.
We are deeply convinced we can make the PvE and PvP crowds coexist in Fractured. In fact, we could call that one of the design pillars of the game itself!
Historically, several MMOs just launched separate servers with different rulesets to address the issue. Others have gone for a level-base split - low level areas are protected, high level areas feature FFA PvP (perhaps with some mid-ground in between). Albion Online is a good example of the latter.
The Albion approach helps with new player retention, but in the end if you hate PvP you're going to quit, since you can only progress up to a point.
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted. You won't get murdered when you're a new player, and you'll be largely able to avoid it after and still progress, since resources on Arboreus are not weaker nor stronger than in Syndesia or Tartaros - they're just different.
Of course, I realize this answer is not explaining much, so it might be a good thing to anticipate the Spotlight on the justice system and PvP rules (which is already planned), since I can't explain it all in just one forum post.
That being said, Fractured is still a sandbox MMO - you won't have a questline to follow, you won't be spoon-fed the content of the game, crafting, trading and building are a huge part of the Fractured experience - easily more than PvE, if one wants to - and so on. If someone is looking for the new WoW, he won't find it here :slight_smile:
We are going to have a fully planet for pve without limitations and spare pvp on really few zone high restricted. No demon events will happen on arboreus this means that they can't invede to destry something.
Below my considerations about it.
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted.
Thanks god, I'm so happy about these clarifications. I can hide there for a safe and peaceful life and move on Syndesia or Tartaros for some good PvP.
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That being said, Fractured is still a sandbox MMO - you won't have a questline to follow, you won't be spoon-fed the content of the game, crafting, trading and building are a huge part of the Fractured experience - easily more than PvE, if one wants to - and so on. If someone is looking for the new WoW, he won't find it here :slight_smile:
That's more than enough. I prolly abused of the term pve, i like dungeons and raids but for pve I meant a safe place where play.
@specter said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Is Fractured a PvE or PvP game?
Fractured is both! The developers want Fractured to appeal to wide range of players, including players who are interested in PvE. Fractured will have PvE content like dungeons and recurring PvE events.Thanks for this too considering that many thinks that Fractured is just a full PvP game, or to better say the core of the game is PvP. I'm really happy and way more excited after this. Could have all the right credentials for large player base.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
We are going to have a fully planet for pve without limitations and spare pvp on really few zone high restricted. No demon events will happen on arboreus this means that they can't invede to destry something.
You misread the effect of an 'eclipse', it is not that people can ONLY travel during an eclipse, but that an eclipse reduces some of the penalties usually applied. Demons are still able to invade Arboreus.
The exact quote is: 'Thanks to the aura, demons don’t suffer the usual penalties when walking the grounds of Syndesia, retaining all the powers they have on Tartaros, and being able to haunt humans until the eclipse is over.' (...)
'Stargates require a great deal of group effort to be summoned and don’t last for long. After crossing one, the time you’re allowed to stay on the new planet is limited and varies according to your race, your alignment and your destination. Demons are a notable exception to this rule, having been gifted by Babilis the ability to travel to other worlds more easily to bring terror to the other much hated races. However, the penalties they’ll be subject to are no smaller than those suffered by the other races… and sometimes, actually worse.'And demons are described as 'Babilis gave its progeny the ability to travel to other planets way more easily than humans and beastmen can do, allowing them to spread death and chaos to Syndesia and Arboreus.'
Since these have been one of the first (forth and sixth) news we got about the game, it naturally attracted some people who are into these kind of activities. And that is why these people are trying to keep you from rallying for a change of this vision, since that would mean they'd lose interest in the game. I, for my part, am simply going to wait for Prometheus to post his announced justice/PvP spotlight, hoping that he's going to make it clear how much Demons can actually do as they are described and cause chaos to Arboreus, or if they end up being a laughing stock and then decide if I still have interest in the game.
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@logain You missed this:
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted.
If we are going to lose players because they will not be allowed to kill where and what they want on Arboreus I will be happy! That's the worst part of a community and luckly the smallest "niche".
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.
We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.
i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!
In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.
That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.
In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.
Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.
pvp is pvp it doesn't matter if it's beast, human or demon. both intention is to fight against another player. why would a person play a game where they can be in a situation to pvp if they hate it? I genuinely don't understand the philosophy behind it.
Because they are playing to play the PvE portion of the game? You make it sound like thats not the point. And exactly, its all the same so fight humans and demons as they WANT to PvP, leave those who dont alone.
Esher has the right idea, hes not playing to be scummy and bully.
