The PvE vs PvP Thread
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buy
PvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.When the demon will be having debuffs and the beastkin won't, when both will be able to carry weapons, your definition of ganking won't apply.
As simple as that.
It depends on how big the debuff is going to be. If the evil alignment gives a 10% debuff, it won't matter much at all.
Even a 25% debuff wouldn't matter much for a battle hardened PvP player attacking a defenseless farmer.Who said anything about a defenseless farmer? Beastkin can carry weapons. If they don't like to pvp at all, even in the context of defending themselves, they can run and hide in the safe zones. And if they don't like that either they can log out for a couple of days, during which demons will be in their planet. If they still don't like that? Then they don't like Fractured's concept.
It is silly to go to a game's forum and ask to make an entirely different game than the one the devs want to make.
You have not understand how the game is going to be, not us.
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah, @Phaethonas, @EvolGrinZ devs are saying that PvE players will be able to enjoy this game. While I have my doubts just like you let's hope for the best
Because just as @Finland said if the game isn't fun for PvE crowd we'll have at least one empty planet and the game will die quickly.And I will say for Nth time that the PvE crowd are not consisted of (just) care bears. As such, PvE players may enjoy a demon invasion at the beast planet, whether because they won't mind defending themselves or because after 1-2 days, when the invasion has ended, they will have to rebuilt. Rebuilding their cities will give them a sense of purpose, which otherwise may not exist, cause after you have made an entire city what else is there to do?
Devs said already that you can't destroy buildings on Arboreus. Accept it.
First of all, you are the last person who can talk about anything. To your own admission, you don't like the game and you are here in order to pressure the devs to change core ideas of theirs.
Secondly, I sincerely doubt that the devs have said that all buildings at the beast planet are indestructible. Last time, you said that the entirety/majority of Arboreus will be a safe zone. I asked then from you to prove that. Not only you haven't done so, but later other people agreed with me that they expect that the safe zones will be <50% of the planet as low as 10-25%, numbers which are and were in line with what I had in mind.
So, have the devs said that all buildings, everywhere at Arboreus are indestructible? Bring proof of that. Not that I would mind that much, as I could still come to Arboreus, kill you, kill your wife, kill your children, steal your wheat, and any and all other resource you had so much trouble to gather/make, kill and eat all your chickens and spare only your cats.
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@vengu said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah, @Phaethonas, @EvolGrinZ devs are saying that PvE players will be able to enjoy this game. While I have my doubts just like you let's hope for the best
Because just as @Finland said if the game isn't fun for PvE crowd we'll have at least one empty planet and the game will die quickly.And I will say for Nth time that the PvE crowd are not consisted of (just) care bears. As such, PvE players may enjoy a demon invasion at the beast planet, whether because they won't mind defending themselves or because after 1-2 days, when the invasion has ended, they will have to rebuilt. Rebuilding their cities will give them a sense of purpose, which otherwise may not exist, cause after you have made an entire city what else is there to do?
You don't understand Fractured at all. Invasions won't last for days, nor will you be able to indiscriminately destroy every building owned by other players, at least not on Arboreus. You're still under the assumption you can steamroll Arboreus and destroy everything you see.
Also, some people take great pride in building and decorating their buildings and don't want it to be destroyed by a bunch of bullies.
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Who said anything about a defenseless farmer? Beastkin can carry weapons. If they don't like to pvp at all, even in the context of defending themselves, they can run and hide in the safe zones. And if they don't like that either they can log out for a couple of days, during which demons will be in their planet. If they still don't like that? Then they don't like Fractured's concept.
It is silly to go to a game's forum and ask to make an entirely different game than the one the devs want to make.
You don't understand Fractured's concept at all yet you act like you're an expert.
I don't understand Fractured? Yeah OK!
First of all, we don't know how long invasions will last. And we don't know two related things when it comes to invasions. a) how long the eclipses will last (although that is not related to the beast planet, but instead it is linked with the human planet) and b) although we do know that when a species visits another planet the player can't stay there indefinitely, we don't know what mechanic it will be employed in order to return the player back to his/her planet. For example; a demon goes to the beast planet. The demon can't stay there indefinitely. That said, we don't know if the demon can stay there for 2 hours, 12 hours or 24 hours. We don't know if there will be a timer after which the player automatically is returned to the demon planet or if there is a bleed mechanic, after which the player will die unless he/she returns to his/her planet.
As for the destruction part. Sure, not everything will be destructible (after all there will be safe zones and there should be safe zones), but I doubt that everything will be indestructible as well. As for your decorated home from which you take pride and accomplishment? Well, if you take pride and accomplishment from such a thing, go play a game that will allow you such a thing. I find it extremely unlikely that an open world game, with the concept of invasions, won't allow some kind of destruction to someone else's building (e.g. your home or a guild's HQ etc). In most cases people who like the things you describe need to find a game with instanced housing and not open world housing.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
So, have the devs said that all buildings, everywhere at Arboreus are indestructible? Bring proof of that. Not that I would mind that much, as I could still come to Arboreus, kill you, kill your wife, kill your children, steal your wheat, and any and all other resource you had so much trouble to gather/make, kill and eat all your chickens and spare only your cats.
So much hatred vs beast I really hope they will protect beasts. Btw I'll be on Syndesia.
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
To your own admission, you don't like the game
I have nerver said that! I only don like the full pvp everywhere
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@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas players that want PvPvE will have that on Syndesia. Beastman that want more PvP will most probably move there as well. About defenseless farmers - pure PvE player usually fares very badly in PvP that in every game I played so far works a bit differently then PvE and fighting vs AI is different then fighting against human.
First of all there won't be any defenseless farmers. Is that so hard for you to understand? Beastkin will be able to arm themselves and will have an advantage because their adversaries will have debuffs on them.
Secondly, although the beast planet will be pve oriented, pvp will exist. Evil aligned players will bring that with them. Wanting something else is like wanting another game, in which case, go and find it.
At Fractured, you can't just have the beast planet in a protection bubble for the care bears. Fractured is not a game for the care bears. You know why you can't have the beast planet in a care bear protection bubble? Cause one main concept of Fractured is that each planet will have unique resources. Some resources will be rare at the demon planet but abundant at the beast planet, while some other resources will be entirely unique to the beast planet. And that doesn't work only in favor of the beast planet, but also against it. Some resources won't be found at the beast planet at all, and others will be rare there but abundant elsewhere.
Now, assuming that kind of economy mechanic, the alignment mechanic and the protection bubble, then demons and evil humans do not have access (at the very least immediate access) to all those materials/resources. That is an insane economy imbalance.
So, either you won't have the protection bubble (which you don't) or you won't have the alignment mechanic (which is a core feature) or you won't have the economy mechanic which not only is a core feature, but also is one of handful of things that separates Fractured from other games.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
So, have the devs said that all buildings, everywhere at Arboreus are indestructible? Bring proof of that. Not that I would mind that much, as I could still come to Arboreus, kill you, kill your wife, kill your children, steal your wheat, and any and all other resource you had so much trouble to gather/make, kill and eat all your chickens and spare only your cats.
So much hatred vs beast I really hope they will protect beasts. Btw I'll be on Syndesia.
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
To your own admission, you don't like the game
I have nerver said that! I only don like the full pvp everywhere
I don't hate beastkin, I cannot hate something that is imaginary. That said, I do not like your attitude.
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First of all, we don't know how long invasions will last. And we don't know two related things when it comes to invasions. a) how long the eclipses will last (although that is not related to the beast planet, but instead it is linked with the human planet)
Eclipses will last several hours, and that's a big PvP event. (https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-2-universe-planets-travels/)
How long you can stay will be determined by race, alignment and destination, and I am pretty certain you're not going to be able to rain terror on Arboreus for days when the spotlight clearly mentions stargates won't last long. Demons can travel more easily, but it won't reduce the penalties In fact, it says that the penalties in some cases will be worse. Also, according to Prometheus, Beastmen will be able to largely avoid PvP, and that wouldn't be the case if you could pillage the planet for days.
Secondly, I sincerely doubt that the devs have said that all buildings at the beast planet are indestructible. Last time, you said that the entirety/majority of Arboreus will be a safe zone. I asked then from you to prove that. Not only you haven't done so, but later other people agreed with me that they expect that the safe zones will be <50% of the planet as low as 10-25%, numbers which are and were in line with what I had in mind.
Nobody knows how much of the planet will be PvE only, so you're speculating just as much as us. Prometheus however did say that in the areas where PvP is possible, it will still be seriously restricted.
As for the destruction part. Sure, not everything will be destructible (after all there will be safe zones and there should be safe zones), but I doubt that everything will be indestructible as well. As for your decorated home from which you take pride and accomplishment? Well, if you take pride and accomplishment from such a thing, go play a game that will allow you such a thing. I find it extremely unlikely that an open world game, with the concept of invasions, won't allow some kind of destruction to someone else's building (e.g. your home or a guild's HQ etc). In most cases people who like the things you describe need to find a game with instanced housing and not open world housing.
Prometheus has outright stated that buildings owned by players will be protected in general: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/984/griefing-ganking/7
The only exception is city conquests, but that's a whole different story according to Prometheus.Secondly, although the beast planet will be pve oriented, pvp will exist. Evil aligned players will bring that with them. Wanting something else is like wanting another game, in which case, go and find it.
At Fractured, you can't just have the beast planet in a protection bubble for the care bears. Fractured is not a game for the care bears. You know why you can't have the beast planet in a care bear protection bubble?The devs have said they want Fractured to appeal to both PvE and PvP players, stop telling "carebears" to leave.
Cause one main concept of Fractured is that each planet will have unique resources. Some resources will be rare at the demon planet but abundant at the beast planet, while some other resources will be entirely unique to the beast planet. And that doesn't work only in favor of the beast planet, but also against it. Some resources won't be found at the beast planet at all, and others will be rare there but abundant elsewhere.
Prometheus has stated no planet will have better or worse resources than the others, just different. If you had actually read up on the game, you would have known that. Read the main post by Specter of this thread if you don't believe me.
You need to understand, this game doesn't revolve around you, and that Arboreus isn't there to be bullied into submission. People like you are the reason why Arboreus should have just been full PvE and why it might very well be if the devs value PvE players more than immersion. As long as players like you exist, PvE and PvP cannot coexist.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That said, I do not like your attitude.
Same. I don't like people that enjoy harassing in game the poor care bears.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That said, I do not like your attitude.
Same. I don't like people that enjoy harassing in game the poor care bears.
I am not harassing anyone though and this game is not for the care bears.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That said, I do not like your attitude.
Same. I don't like people that enjoy harassing in game the poor care bears.
I am not harassing anyone though and this game is not for the care bears.
ganking = harassment for some players
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@vengu said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Eclipses will last several hours, and that's a big PvP event. (https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-2-universe-planets-travels/)
How many hours?
2 hours will be too few cause the window of opportunity will be too small in order for people to enter the event. There are things like real life (e.g. work), time difference between areas and the like that will result at low population at the event if it lasts only 2 hours.
OK, so we know that we need the event to last longer, but how long should it be? Could it be a week? Probably it should not be a week. With that in mind we try to find the correct time. Chances are the correct time won't be found till after the first such event takes place. Trial and error will be required.
My opinion is that it should be at least 8-12 hours and no more than 48 hours, hence the "1-2 days" that I said. The time I expressed was not meant as a certainty as not even the devs know the "correct" time and most likely they will try several things before launching.
Must everything be explained in minute detail, for fuck's sake? It was so fucking obvious that the "1-2 days" that I said was a hypothesis based at the very unspecific "several hours" that can range from 2 hours to who knows how many, with 24 - 48 hours fitting that description.
I am pretty certain you're not going to be able to rain terror on Arboreus for days when the spotlight clearly mentions stargates won't last long
I didn't say "days though", now did I? I have mentioned a number of figures in different contexts.
For example I expect that invasions at Arboreus will be more difficult than those at the human planet and the invasions at the human planet will be easier during an eclipse, with the latter being confirmed. So, I expect in terms of difficulty;
Invasion at Arboreus > Invasion at human planet (no eclipse) >> Invasion at human planet during an eclipse.
Arboreus will not be eclipsed!
hours, if there will be a bleeding mechanic, something else or a combination of the above. So, in the end we don't have the slightest idea how long a demon will be able to stay at the beast planet.Frankly I expect the devs to design a system for let's say 8-12 hours, with players trying to find exploits and workarounds, which will result at players to stay for days maybe even weeks. Then the devs will try to cover that loophole and things repeating themselves. This is how things work.
Nobody knows how much of the planet will be PvE only, so you're speculating just as much as us.
My point exactly.
Prometheus has outright stated that buildings owned by players will be protected in general: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/984/griefing-ganking/7
The only exception is city conquests, but that's a whole different story according to Prometheus.
Once more, my point exactly. I specifically said that not everything will be indestructible, as not everything will be destructible.
Prometheus goes as far and say that the protection at Arboreus is "high", which is in contrast to "absolute", which care bears want.
The devs have said they want Fractured to appeal to both PvE and PvP players, stop telling "carebears" to leave.
Not all PvE players are care bears. How many times must I say this?
Fractured can be attractive to PvE players while being unattractive to care bears.
Prometheus has stated no planet will have better or worse resources than the others, just different.
Isn't that which I described?
I never said that one planet will have "better"/"worse" resources. I used words like "abundance", "rare" and "unique". As a matter of fact I outright said that the beast planet won't be the planet with the "best" resources, and said that each planet will have their advantages and disadvantages when it comes to resources.
Are you even reading what I am writing?
You need to understand, this game doesn't revolve around you, and that Arboreus isn't there to be bullied into submission
And you need to understand that I never suggested that, as a matter of fact I have agreed with the concept of having safe zones, although I will disagree if that mechanic is "abused".
People like you are the reason why Arboreus should have just been full PvE and why it might very well be if the devs value PvE players more than immersion.
People like me? You mean pvpers? Cause I did no suggest anything else but what is standard when talking about pvp and open world.
Now, if the devs want to please everyone, then they will outright fail. It is literally impossible to please everyone as is evident at this thread.
If you want a pvp/pve game (and as you said the devs want Fractured to be attractive to both) then both communities need to accept some compromises. I see the pvp community accepting those compromises (the debuffs for instance) but all I see from a vocal part of the pve community is whining because Fractured won't be attractive to them. These are the care bears! And I will say for Nth time, not all pvers are care bears. Pvers who can accept that they may be killed (albeit rarely) will have fun at Fractured, care bears won't.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
That said, I do not like your attitude.
Same. I don't like people that enjoy harassing in game the poor care bears.
I am not harassing anyone though and this game is not for the care bears.
ganking = harassment for some players
What these players call "ganking" and "harassment" needs to be understood that is standard open world pvp gaming.
If you don't like a game that will have open world pvp, then go play another game. The devs are making an open world game, which goes as far as not having instanced dungeons. And the devs are making a game that will include pvp, to the extent of having "demon invasions". These are core features of the game and won't change any time soon.
Demons invading Arboreus? It is here to stay!
Planets with different resources? It is here to stay!
Open world? It is here to stay!
Alignment mechanic? It is here to stay!
Each planet being race specific? It is here to stay!
How these will be implemented (for example how long an eclipse will last, if Arboreus will be eclipsed or not, what will be the difference at the resources, how the Karma/Justice system will work at the human planet etc) is something that will determined and will probably change throughout the game's lifetime.
But core features? They are here to stay!
So, if you are a care bear that want nothing to do with pvp? This is not a game for you. This game will have both open world pvp and pve. And this means that if I find you chopping wood at the forest, I will kill you. And that will be a feature.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
So, if you are a care bear that want nothing to do with pvp?
I told you 100 times that I'm going to play Human on Syndesia for the siege thingy. I'm just defending PvErs in general.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
First of all there won't be any defenseless farmers. Is that so hard for you to understand? Beastkin will be able to arm themselves and will have an advantage because their adversaries will have debuffs on them.
Secondly, although the beast planet will be pve oriented, pvp will exist. Evil aligned players will bring that with them. Wanting something else is like wanting another game, in which case, go and find it.We have no idea what the debuff will be and how will it work - so don't give a Beastman easy win yet
PvE players quite often do PvE - when you fight a mob and a PvP player shows and joins the fight on mob side it can be really hard to survive. And then again - I disagree with you - pure PvE player are quite often very bad at PvP.There will be regions on Beastman world that will be PvP free - no PvP at all there. How it will work? We'll find out in next spotlight.
I don't think they will make that planet completely PvP free but I surely don't want them to delete that pure PvE regions. I will try the game and see how it works and if I enjoy it I'll stay, if not I'll leave. They're promising game fun for PvE players so I do hope it will be fun. Some PvP players think that only way the game will be fun for them is if it's not fun for PvEers... that's why I still post in this topic
It's late so my post might be a bit chaotic.And I think you're wrong about planets being race specific - they will be alignment specific.
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problem is most of the people that are pro-pve believe that the beast planet should be 100% pve, which isn't how the developers are designing the game. They expect all pvp to happen on the human and demon planets during the eclipse or whenever.
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I must admit I am already starting to lose interest int he game as mostly PvE player in all games I play, reading how the PvP players are talking here and how they basically just want to bully the PvE players and make their life miserable any way they can.
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@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I must admit I am already starting to lose interest int he game as mostly PvE player in all games I play, reading how the PvP players are talking here and how they basically just want to bully the PvE players and make their life miserable any way they can.
Same here. Back when I first joined this forum, I warned Prometheus this would happen. If he thinks PvE and PvP can coexist together like this, Fractured will be dead within the year. There are people on this forum who are going to play this game solely to get rid of all the PvE Beastmen. The upcoming spotlight is going to be very interesting, and probably the determining factor for many people here, on both the PvE and PvP side.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@logain well if you don0t like to risk just play safe like care bears.. none is forcing you to play risky and none wants to force others to play risky.
Now you went from argumentum ad hominem to a straw man.
In case that you're interested in a discussion with refuting and counterarguments, answer my previous questions to let me know. If you're simply up to fallacy, I see no point in responding any further (no harsh feelings, I'm just not up for that kind of conversation).
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@EvolGrinZ, @Vengu I'll repeat once again - devs PROMISED it will be fun for PvE players. And they will write in next spotlight how this will work. Don't lose hope yet
@Jetah I know but... my guess is it's because most if not all experiments in other games went badly for PvE players.
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@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I must admit I am already starting to lose interest int he game as mostly PvE player in all games I play, reading how the PvP players are talking here and how they basically just want to bully the PvE players and make their life miserable any way they can.
I know the feeling but stay tuned till the next spotlight ;). If pvpers... sorry too generic, if gankers/pkers will allowed to stress people on Arboreus the game will have a low player base and prolly none will play beasts. And you know what's going to happen.
@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@EvolGrinZ, @Vengu I'll repeat once again - devs PROMISED it will be fun for PvE players. And they will write in next spotlight how this will work. Don't lose hope yet
@Jetah I know but... my guess is it's because most if not all experiments in other games went badly for PvE players.
It's not hard they could just abandon the lore behind invasions and manage planets like different servers. Toggling pvp on arboreus but allowing everyone to go there. Wanna pvp just flag on to kill flagged. As you said mixed could or couln't work but we have to see how they will manage it.
@all
Also albion have the chance to play risky for PvErs but hey.. none enjoys it. That's why is dying. I stay tuned for my connationals devs and I hope for them they make the right choice. If not I'll stay around to laugh at gankers. In the last 6 years so many games had those kind of players that ruined games.No player = nothing to kill = why do I have to play? And they leave after asking something specific.
Albion had 180k accounts at launch, now 4000-6000 (and I know many using 3-4 accounts cause of the farms on the Personal Island). So try to think a % of the leavers. Who were a pver and who were a ganker.
My last day on Albion was 1hour of killing mobs (with the guild, 20ppl) at a world boss spot before get ganked by one of the top guild leading that zone. Then we moved to a lawless zone to pk players and hey.. we lost like 3h walking zone by zone (totally empty) till we got engaged by the nĀ°2 guild of the server. Was like 100 vs 40. No fight at all we let them punish us. I left the game. The gain on killing players is too high so descouraging players to grind resources. It's easier steal than grind.
PS. Stop telling us to look somewhere else because we could tell you the same. There are alot gankfest games around.
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you say bullying but it's part of the game. We also don't know the how often and how long the demons can get to arboreus. it could be once a real month for 4 hours or it could be every 9 hours for 1 hour or every 2 hours for 30 minutes. For me it'll be a challenge to overcome because of the reduced stats or penalties to invade.
@Finland you were correct when you said pvpers. I find it disrespectable to call all pvpers gankers/pkers. it would be similar if we called all pve'ers carebears. PvP is about player vs player, it doesn't distinguish between instanced or open world just like PvE doesn't distinguish between gathering or raids.
yes, it's easier to kill and steal than it is to work for something.
as for your PS, if you hate 7 of 10 core elements of a game then i don't see how you'll enjoy just 3 core elements.
