The PvE vs PvP Thread
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you'll have pve ragers during the first invasion and loss of their gear.
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@jetah Nah I'll stay on syndesia with those who whant pvp but I'll get lots of players that will grind safely in Arboreus
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@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buy
PvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buyPvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Funny! Ganking is when you go out for gathering and someone kills you! Ganking is when you go for escort something and you get ambushed! Ganking is when you go for an open dungeon and your team gets killed while fighting mobs! I can continue if you like.
Remeber that Players will be able to play safely on Arboreus. And stop telling that's not a game for care bears cause Devs told many times that they are going to make a game for all play style.
PvE = non PvP (All PvErs think the same, an Open World dungeon with pvp on and full loot it's not PvE). I consider PvE everything that's not related to PvP, so dungeons, harvesting,crafting and so on.
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i'll point out that Finland wont budge on his definition on gank. to him it's anything outside of consented instanced pvp.
I agree with what you wrote.
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Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave.
That's griefing not ganking.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buyPvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.
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@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.Indeed, that's what I say every time. Anyway we should give a chance and test how that's going to work.
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@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buyPvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.When the demon will be having debuffs and the beastkin won't, when both will be able to carry weapons, your definition of ganking won't apply.
As simple as that.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buyPvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Funny! Ganking is when you go out for gathering and someone kills you! Ganking is when you go for escort something and you get ambushed! Ganking is when you go for an open dungeon and your team gets killed while fighting mobs! I can continue if you like.
Remeber that Players will be able to play safely on Arboreus. And stop telling that's not a game for care bears cause Devs told many times that they are going to make a game for all play style.
PvE = non PvP (All PvErs think the same, an Open World dungeon with pvp on and full loot it's not PvE). I consider PvE everything that's not related to PvP, so dungeons, harvesting,crafting and so on.
Killing someone who is gathering at an open world game with open world pvp as a feature, is not ganking.
It is not ganking when you are "escorting" something. Why are you escorting in the first place? The concept of "escorting" implies a danger from which you protect your caravan from. Sure, that can be a pve danger (e.g. the wolves' area from which the caravan has to pass through), but in an open world game with open world pvp that includes enemy players, whether these players are enemy faction (not applicable at Fractured) or opposite alignment (applicable at Fractured). If you don't like the latter then don't play a game with such gameplay features, as simple as that.
Ganking someone at an open world dungeon could be considered ganking depending the game. It is so easy to stop that from happening (e.g. make the open dungeon area a safe zone) that if the open dungeon is not a safe zone, then it should be considered a gameplay feature. Sure, it will be one with which you disagree, but in that case consider not playing the game. If the open world dungeon on the other hand is protected from ganking (e.g. it is a safe zone) then your problem is solved. (That said I do not know which way Fractured will go, but either way I don't mind personally).
Furthermore, you cannot make a game for all gameplay styles. I am not aware if the devs are trying to make a game "for all gameplay styles" but if they will try that, they will fail. It is literally impossible to succeed on that. And you should distinguish "all gameplay styles" from "multiple gameplay styles".
Do you want proof that the devs are not trying to satisfy everyone? There won't be instanced pvp and so far there is no instanced pve either. The devs are making a purely open world game.
So, the players at Arboreus will not be able to play "safely", although what is "safely" for each one of us is debatable.
Demons and evil aligned humans will be able to kill beastkin at Arboreus
Demons and evil aligned humans will be able to invade Arboreus and pillage its resources. Each planet's resources are different and the demon planet will not have a number of those, while the beast planet will have unique resources as well. As the devs have said it will be possible to buy [tier 5] [metal] at Arboreus for 1 gold per stack and then sell it at another planet for 10 gold per stack cause the same material will worth different prices at each planet, cause of availability. And while this has implications for trading (as explicitly said by the devs), it can be assumed that the same is applicable with looting, raiding, pillaging etc. After all the demons aren't invading Arboreus in order to get those materials through peaceful means (see trading) but through violent means (see pillaging). It would make no sense to have a demon "invasion" at Arboreus, with the demon having debuffs and timer over his/her head (after the timer's expiration the demon will automatically return to the demon planet), only to have that demon to trade the materials found only at Arboreus.
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
i'll point out that Finland wont budge on his definition on gank. to him it's anything outside of consented instanced pvp.
I agree with what you wrote.
The he/she is considering to play the wrong game. And that is what is wrong with people.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
i'll point out that Finland wont budge on his definition on gank. to him it's anything outside of consented instanced pvp.
I agree with what you wrote.
The he/she is considering to play the wrong game. And that is what is wrong with people.
I told Finland that Fractured has too many activities that he hate and suggested that Fractured might not be a game for him.
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@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buyPvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.
Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.
All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.
Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.
So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.
Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.When the demon will be having debuffs and the beastkin won't, when both will be able to carry weapons, your definition of ganking won't apply.
As simple as that.
It depends on how big the debuff is going to be. If the evil alignment gives a 10% debuff, it won't matter much at all.
Even a 25% debuff wouldn't matter much for a battle hardened PvP player attacking a defenseless farmer.
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@jetah, @Phaethonas, @EvolGrinZ devs are saying that PvE players will be able to enjoy this game. While I have my doubts just like you let's hope for the best
Because just as @Finland said if the game isn't fun for PvE crowd we'll have at least one empty planet and the game will die quickly.
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Everyone is failing thinking I will not PvP. I'm just a kind of person that want PvP but not forced to do it.
About Fractured I also have many doubt's and we don't know when we'll try Arboreus cause pre-alpha will bring just a part of Syndesia. For sure I would have managed the planets differently to offer every kind of gameplay, like:
- Tartaros. PvP on full time
- Syndesya. PvP on but restricted by rulset. (The only PvP allowed is during wars/siege)
- Arboreus. PvP off. You can flag PvP and kill flagged.
This way every one can choose the planet that suits better for him, ofc travels will be allowed but restricted by the planet law.
That is how I would have managed it to make everyone happy. So 1 planet for those who enjoy ganks/pking, 1 planet for those that enjoy pvp objectvies, 1 planet safe.
About instanced pvp well it's funny and "balanced" in terms of numbers dunno how you could manage a capture the flag in open world (maybe would be funny too).
About PvE instanced is to avoid 2 things:
- To be killed while doing a dungeon. That would be not a problem if the planet is pvp off with open dungeons.
- It's giust a small group that can grind the dungeon. In Albion for example the 2 best open world dungeon were over populated, there where no mobs around. Everything was perma cleaned. Just 20 groups of 5-10 players runnning around to find some mobs alive but mostly of the time was PvP fight.
For sure Devs must keep in mind that offering pve in an open world with pvp on will not attract PvE players thats usually plays PvE due the safe rules of the server and not for the content. For example I don't care to do dungeons or boss in a zone where is pvp on. If I have to PvP I just go PvP. Try to mix the dungeons with the PvP is going to nothing like Albion online where groups of people were joining dungeons just to find people and get kills. Top pvp guild were monopolizing the dungeons. There where no safe spots end game for pvers and they rage quitted due the loss of the equips. Many cares just to kill/gather something safely, looks cool and show their gear/mount. That what I have seen in my last 16 years of MMO. I'm an ex hard core raid player of wow but I'm not looking for challangin raids on Fractured. A game must be funny to play and not frustrate people.
Said this I'll stay tuned.
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(at)finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)offer every kind of gameplay, like:
- Tartaros. PvP on full time
- Syndesya. PvP on but restricted by rulset. (The only PvP allowed is during wars/siege)
- Arboreus. PvP off. You can flag PvP and kill flagged.
(...)travels will be allowed but restricted by the planet law (...)That is how I would have managed it to make everyone happy.
Ok, let's assume I'm stumbling upon your advertising of Fractured with your rule-set and I think the game's generally interesting/appealing to me, how would you pitch the PvP aspect of your rule-set, so I'd bail in and pledge on the Kickstarter?
I, as a hypothetical PvP-player, seem to be getting the short end of the stick in this rule-set just about everywhere, despite being the most competitive sort of player.
As a demon on Tartaros, I take the full risk but have no reward, everybody (Demons, Humans and Beastman) can come and kill me on sight, but I, on the other hand, can not even take my revenge on the Beastman. This means, I am hard pressed to keep my equipment and all of my competition can enjoy regaining any loss in their save spot quick and easy, which leads to a downwards spiral for me (I keep loosing they keep gaining 'progress').
I have to be on my toes and 'account' for hostile activities whenever I go to hunt, leading to a slower progress (or a higher risk of loss), whereas the Beastman/Human can Min-Max their PvE skill/equipment time, leading to an even bigger gap.
Even worse, a group of Beastman could come, kill me, go back to Arboreus and taunt me with no possible means for me to defend myself from their evil words.It seems I'd be better off playing a MOBA or FPS, where PvP is a main selling point and there's a reward for any risk I'm taking, then to pledge for PvP in your rule-set of Fractured, where I have all risk and no reward? What am I missing that would make me happy?
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@logain hahahaha don't make me laugh. Your reward is the kill. Beasts has to come there for pking or for resources that are not on arboreus. Anyway I got what kind of player you are.
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(at)finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...) Your reward is the kill(...)
But a Beastman, a human, a MOBA player and a FPS player get that reward as well, don't they?
What's the unique selling proposition that the other's don't have?(at)finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...) Anyway I got what kind of player you are.
Could you please stop the personal attacks (argumentum ad hominem) and focus on the subject instead?
That said, no, I doubt that. I enjoy the thrill of a real strategic environment. I am usually not the predator (though I do attack people if they misbehave towards me in order to 'moderate through the community'), but the prey.
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
But a Beastman, a human, a MOBA player and a FPS player get that reward as well, don't they?
The purpose of the moba is to win the match and destroy the core. It's not a rush on who get's more kills.
@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Could you please stop the personal attacks
I apologize
that was not to attack you but just that I understood what kind of player you are. Maybe I expressed myself badly. You can get your kills on Tartaros and steal equips there. I don't see the point to focus on Beasts vs Humans vs Demons and so on.. It's not a faction vs faction, or it does not looks so to me. A Demon can kill demons. If you need resources just go on arboreus grind your resources get your gear and then get back on Tartaros. For me that's a better solution than offering a Flag pvp on each planet. But the difference is that i'm suggesting solution for both sides. None of the PvPers suggested something to let PvErs play safely ;). For sure I'll make more players happy. not all but more. Those who likes easy peasy steling thingy will not (But I like the idea to have not that kind of community around)!@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Because just as @Finland said if the game isn't fun for PvE crowd we'll have at least one empty planet and the game will die quickly.
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(at)finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)offer every kind of gameplay, like:
- Tartaros. PvP on full time
- Syndesya. PvP on but restricted by rulset. (The only PvP allowed is during wars/siege)
- Arboreus. PvP off. You can flag PvP and kill flagged.
(...)travels will be allowed but restricted by the planet law (...)That is how I would have managed it to make everyone happy.
Ok, let's assume I'm stumbling upon your advertising of Fractured with your rule-set and I think the game's generally interesting/appealing to me, how would you pitch the PvP aspect of your rule-set, so I'd bail in and pledge on the Kickstarter?
I, as a hypothetical PvP-player, seem to be getting the short end of the stick in this rule-set just about everywhere, despite being the most competitive sort of player.
As a demon on Tartaros, I take the full risk but have no reward, everybody (Demons, Humans and Beastman) can come and kill me on sight, but I, on the other hand, can not even take my revenge on the Beastman. This means, I am hard pressed to keep my equipment and all of my competition can enjoy regaining any loss in their save spot quick and easy, which leads to a downwards spiral for me (I keep loosing they keep gaining 'progress').
I have to be on my toes and 'account' for hostile activities whenever I go to hunt, leading to a slower progress (or a higher risk of loss), whereas the Beastman/Human can Min-Max their PvE skill/equipment time, leading to an even bigger gap.
Even worse, a group of Beastman could come, kill me, go back to Arboreus and taunt me with no possible means for me to defend myself from their evil words.It seems I'd be better off playing a MOBA or FPS, where PvP is a main selling point and there's a reward for any risk I'm taking, then to pledge for PvP in your rule-set of Fractured, where I have all risk and no reward? What am I missing that would make me happy?
Do you really think a Demon is going to chase a Beastman ganker all the way to Arboreus? The Demon would have to find a way to travel to Arboreus, survive the hostile environment on Arboreus and hope that his target isn't hiding in one of the PvE zones just to take revenge on the ganker. I doubt that's something that's going to happen frequently. Maybe if a Beastman guild harasses Demons we will see a counter assault against that guild, but personal vendettas are already pretty much impossible with the current system.
