Question about enviromental damage/effects
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@Razvan said in Question about enviromental damage/effects:
obably not really applicable here since they use the d&d system where athletics is an STR che
I agree, the stealth users would have the second best use of environment settings but it would still be mundane stuff that could not compete with a magic user's ability since they also can do everything a stealth user is capable of by using spells. Warriors always get the worse when it comes to environment interactions
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In general, light armor should mean less protection + more utility.
Heavy armor should mean more protection + less utility.We shall see how will that get balanced here.
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@Gothix said in Question about enviromental damage/effects:
In general, light armor should mean less protection + more utility.
Heavy armor should mean more protection + less utility.We shall see how will that get balanced here.
Agreed.
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I would say warrior and rogue types needs abilities as well which benefit from the environment like the mages' skills do. They should not be left out of this feature, no matter are we examining this from appealing or balancing point of view.
Rogues and hunters could benefit at least from flora so they can hide, camouflaged, stealth in the bushes and ambush from there much more effectively than in the open ground, that would actually make sense as well. Heavier melee classes could benefit from the open ground or utilize earth element and rocky environment for extra CCs and protection.
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@Tuoni I
benefit at least from flora so they can hide, camouflaged, stealth in the bushes and ambush from there much more effectively than in the open ground
Agree, according to devs Fractured should have "moba gameplay", wonder if they also want to involve "hiding in bushes" like in LoL (but probably not
) or at least make bushes/similar obstacles as "fog of war" zone so it would take skill to escape / initiate (also doubt it ).In Dota if enemy ambushes you when you´re nearly dead you can still escape by outwitting him by using his field of view and fog of war. No abilities (tho items like "Blink dagger" or such and similar skills work wonders), just skill.
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@asspirin or like Legend of Aria mechanism with Hide and stealth for squishy classes to escape a death. I play scout and I am loving Stealth and Hide in LOA.
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I see rogue more like hit and run than utility class but i hope there will be lot of free will for player to make build he/she wants. Hybrids can be lot of fun but with lot of choices game is hard to balance. That is the price for it.
Heavy armor should definitely always have highest defense at least for physical damage.
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Depends on game, in ADaD of older editions rogue was walking picklock, but if specced and equipped with few potions of invisibility, his backstabs sure did hurt. In newer editions rogue still keeps "the utility guy" as they get most skillpoints. In fractured defining rogue will be more difficult, because you have "roguish" abilities and "roguish" armour (medium) yet you can be assassin in cloth armour as well and everyone can go invisible. But we got quite offtopic.
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@asspirin
I am not sure if they mentioned some features where you could use picklock so far. There is labyrint and they mentioned that goblin's forts and other pve points will be lootable but i can't remember details rn.
Spellblade assassin could be fun in fractured just burst healer down and then blink and stealth away across battlefield. It doesn't matter if you squishy if they can't ever catch you
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@GorTavaro Squishy = low resist = CCed = dead
btw healers are not Priests from WoW ---> healer can wear Plate armour, even shield, whats more healing cant crit and you dont need accuracy to heal allies ---> no need for PERCEPTION at all ---> all stats can go to tanking ---> healer can imo be as tanky as tank
I´d rather focus fire pure dmg spellcasters (no block + cloth armour)
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@asspirin
You will still need INT probably since both healing skills in game are scaled with it so far
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@GorTavaro yep but with shield you dont need to care so much about DEX (you dont attack, so faster attack are useless for you, and you dont dodge - youre in plate anyway, so block>dodge), also PER can be left at 6, so in case of HUMAN all 4 stats can go to 18, one of them will be natural 20, another one artificial 20 or one of them will be 22, rest 18; still stats will be pretty high; also you probably wont have to care about accuracy (unless your pets get accuracy dependant on yours) and crit chance / damage can also be nonexistent ---> go defensive stats instead
but who know how pets will be eventually tweaked
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If a healer choose to go with plate I guess he will trade that extra defense for less effective abilities or for smaller mana pool and/or slower mana regeneration.
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@Tuoni Im only expecting some serious maluses on mana costs of spells like with medium armour just more severe. However if spell costs for example 2x more, why make it les effective, its already balanced with costs.
I doubt it would affect efficiency of abilities, you already cant cast offensives in plate and if spells costed 2x more and were useless, "paladin type" classes would not be viable.
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It all depends what kind of armor system is planned and balanced based on that. If offensive abilities cannot be cast when wearing plate then that is quite hard restriction already and not much more is needed. However, that sounds like there will not be that much serious build variations and warriors use plates, rogues/hunters leather and mages robes. Offically we have "freedom" to choose what ever we want, but in practice it might be mainly opposite.
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@Tuoni You can choose whatever you want (abilities of all schools between each other), yet of course there have to be some kind of limitation, otherwise everyone would go heavy plate user with shield casting nukes.
The better your offense the more your defence will suck and vice versa. But thats not limitation, but "balance".The other possibility would be lowering dmg of offensive spells etc. for plate users, but then their damage would still suck, so they would still be tanks, only difference would be maces===>magic.
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@asspirin said in Question about enviromental damage/effects:
@Tuoni You can choose whatever you want (abilities of all schools between each other), yet of course there have to be some kind of limitation, otherwise everyone would go heavy plate user with shield casting nukes.
The better your offense the more your defence will suck and vice versa. But thats not limitation, but "balance".Da-a.
The other possibility would be lowering dmg of offensive spells etc. for plate users, but then their damage would still suck, so they would still be tanks, only difference would be maces===>magic.
Lowering damage is one option and actually what I meant at first place. Wearing a plate armor and being a caster does not necessarily need to mean that the damage will suck, it could be moderate for example. Perhaps it is not optimal for a caster to run with a plate armor but maybe there is abilities which can boost your damage or get some extra mana back, and that way players can mix more with the builds.
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@Tuoni said in Question about enviromental damage/effects:
one option and actually what I meant at first place. Wearing a plate armor and being a caster does not necessarily need to mean that the damage will suck, it could be moderate for example. Perhaps it is not optimal for a caster to run with a plate armor but maybe there is abilities which can boost your damage or get some extra mana back, an
They could always add in Magus or Spellblade skills where a whole slot it taken up to be able to cast a limited number of offensive spells while wearing armor.
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@Tuoni I do understand what you mean and I´d be totally fine with it in singleplayer, put in full loot pvp having "great defence" should be equal "to have low offence". There was already discussion on that matter on the forums (dunno how it was solved, but only guys who wished for heavy armoured casters were roleplayers). Also from armour you can tell who youre standing against (mage / rogue / warrior archetype) - for this alone I´d leave it as it is. But it´s just me, why do You think casting in plate would make things better?
They could always add in Magus or Spellblade skills where a whole slot it taken up to be able to cast a limited number of offensive spells while wearing armor.
If there was some kind of modal ability for heavy plate users that would let them cast offensive spells, it should imo have also same affect as Mage armour --> aka disables your armour for the duration of casting and of course some time after you have finished casting, because then there would be no downsides (casting all spells "naked" and immediately get back to "safe mode" in heavy plate is OP).
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@asspirin Well, e.g. Albion has a system where players can freely mix gear pieces and last time I saw it was a sandbox MMORPG and not a single player RPG.
There cloth, leather and heavy armors are balanced offense vs. defense in mind. That system is not directly comparable because Albion has also abilities in the gear pieces but it still shows that it can be done if devs want to.I would say this is not just a caster in plate matter it is how players can in general freely mix gear pieces with different ability sets and e.g. use different gear pieces in different situatios, depending of the content what they are going to do (solo/group/PvE/PvP). E.g. perhaps you need more sustain when playing solo and you get that with heavier armor but perhaps in group you can go with lighter armor and be more like a glass cannon who relies on healers.
