PvE Planet with PvP
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@Razvan Also what exactly is OW?
And about the land value: this really is a tough one. I doubt that polital warfare could lead to you loosing your housing. There really is a possibility of Arb actually just becoming a glorified bank: this can happen to the point that a standalone Arb character would be unable to afford housing there, which would suck ultra hard. ':(
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I find it fascinating that, with two planets wide open for PvP action, it seems vitally imperative to some folks to ensure that their PvP action pushes whatever boundary @Prometheus & the devs might decide to set up.
I personally think that the devs have done a really cool thing in Fractured by creating a world where those who dont' dig PvP can play against the environment, or travel to other parts of the game for a more controlled PvP experience, or create another toon to fight with.
I also think it's really cool that the devs have set up some stiff barriers to violent incursions, to ensure the enjoyment of the game by those who have chosen that environment over the 2 (count'em TWO) planets where PvP is just fine and dandy.
This is, obviously, the cue for anyone who hates any kind of limitation on their prerogatives to debate the need for/desirability of those barriers, and look for ways around them, instead of playing on their own f'ing TWO PLANETS.
Can you tell how I feel about that? Here's some emojis
I can't tell folks how to play, or what to want, but I would ask y'all to consider being mindful of what will attract/repel others. I don't think I'm the only one who invested in this game because I would be able to enjoy PvE w/o getting attacked by people who have spent LOTS of time getting big and bad. If I want to fight other players, I can go to another planet anytime.
Pushing the boundaries on Arboreus, simply for the sake of doing so, has the potential to fubar Fractured's whole basic concept. I like Fractured's whole basic concept very much.
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@PeachMcD Ok, you're just jumping to conclusions and hearing what you want to hear without any regard to what's actually being argued.
It's not about PKing people who want to live and peace and don't worry about someone clapping them out of the blue and loosing their gear.
No, this is about how these people and their unarguably extremely powerful advantage can ruin the economy on not just their own little PvM heaven, but on all 3 planets. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not, you're not the only one here and we will all be sharing the same economy. This can't just be oversimplified as "PKers want too ruin my fun" and swepr under the rug: it's a serious problem that can damage and perhaps even ruin the experience of everyone involved.
But after all I want you to remember that we all are just speculating here and arguing over something we actually have close to no actual knowledge on.
Please restrain from being so rude and selfish. Be a lot cooler if you did.
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@Razvan said in PvE Planet with PvP:
@Tuoni
I disagree with Arboreus being the best solution as currently planned. There are three obvious problems: OW spots which cannot be disputed (and will result in a lot of griefing), dirt-cheap local resources compared to other regions because there's no risk in gathering, and very expensive town plots later on because there are no sieges. Unless they are willing to make compromises, such as instanced dungeons for the first problem, I don't see how these can be solved.Imo, the planets should have been: no-loot pvp with flagging on Arboreus, full-loot pvp with flagging on human planet, unrestricted pvp on demon planet.
Okay perhaps the best solution was a little bit too much to say, especailly in situation where we do not know how all the details will work in practice. Primarily I referred to full loot and rare open world PvP encounters which I think can work very well in Arboreus, depending of implementation of course.
I agree with your point that open world spots would need something around them, and perhaps the solution is in PvE factions which players need to fight with. Leaving the owning of spots only for politics can be quite boring, however, that could be one of the ways.
The risk with gathering can be raised by making PvE content more dangerous especially around resource hot spots. In addition, something can be done also with respawn timers and quantities, however, there is still risk that resources are gathered much more in Arboreus when compared to other planets.
No-loot with PvP flagging could work as well and I am sure that most of the PvE oriented players would actually like that. However, perhaps the debuffs for evil players are so high that beastmen are actually more threat to demons rather than vice versa. Therefore, full loot would have its place and makes it also more risky to demons enter soil of Arboreus.
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@humerus As far as I'm aware most, if not all of the content on Arboreus will be located in the safe zones. Arboreus isn't supposed to be a planet where the safe zones only act as "starter zones" and Beastmen have to venture out into PvP areas to play the game. With that said, every planet will have unique resources so Syndesia and Tartaros players don't have to worry about cheaper Beastmen resources ruining their markets.
As for more casual PvP on Arboreus (optional and without full loot), it's a possibility if the Beastmen players want it. It's actually something I've suggested to Prometheus a while back.
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@Tuoni I really think that having full loot in the dangerous area is the way to go. Without this there is just no reason for other people to invade Arb to PK.
But as far as fixing the influx of items from the 0 risk gatherers is the tax on transporting it out of Arboreus. We really have to just wait and see what the devs do with it.
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@Specter Oh ok. So this would imply that Arb exclusive resources would be useless to Syn and Tar inhabitants? And that the common resources across all 3 planets will be pretty low-value basic items?
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@humerus No resources are strictly better or worse, so some people will certainly be looking for resources from Arboreus. Different resources provide different stats to gear, and also different looks to buildings. With that said, since every planet has unique resources, the Demon player who risked his life to obtain a rare resource on Tartaros doesn't have to worry that he's going to get undercut by a Beastman player who got the same resource on Arboreus without risk. Also keep in mind it won't be easy to move resources between planets, certainly not through automated means like NPC trade caravans. (It was mentioned in a recent Q&A on Oxfurd's stream I believe). The difficulty of moving resources between planets will also affect the prices obviously.
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@Specter Thank you for the insight. I assumed there would be a tax-esk money sink for transporting goods between the planets, can't wait for more info on how exactly the resourses will work, it's still a mystery to me, and an important one at that.
Tbh I'm actually quite confused now, so yeah, waiting for a comprehensive newspost.
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Here is one example how Arboreus and it "zones" could work. This picture bases on idea if there would be one huge continent so imagine the map under this picture. If there will be several continents it will be actually much easier to create different kind of regions with different danger levels and rules.
Arboreus landmass could be ~ 83% of PvE and ~ 17% of PvE/PvP.
Arboreus could be distributed to three main dangerous levels: Safe, Mediocre and Hardcore.
It will be also distributed for six smaller "zones" about 16% - 17% each.
- Harcore PvE = ~ 17%
- Hardcore PvE/PvP = ~17%
- Mediocre PvE = ~ 33%
- Safe PvE = ~ 33%
There is no need to have strict borders between zones and those can overlap smoothly.
Colored dots marks landing spots (gates) from other planets and the circles around those the zone of influence where visitors can reach from that specific gate. Perhaps different gates have different values and blue for example has easier access but it also limits the area you have time to explore.
I hope people will not take this as precise suggestion because it is more like a sketch how the Arboreus could be distributed. I tried to take account different kind of player types, and obviously the idea is to offer different kind of PvE players content they are interested.
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@Specter said in PvE Planet with PvP:
@humerus No resources are strictly better or worse, so some people will certainly be looking for resources from Arboreus. Different resources provide different stats to gear, and also different looks to buildings. With that said, since every planet has unique resources, the Demon player who risked his life to obtain a rare resource on Tartaros doesn't have to worry that he's going to get undercut by a Beastman player who got the same resource on Arboreus without risk. Also keep in mind it won't be easy to move resources between planets, certainly not through automated means like NPC trade caravans. (It was mentioned in a recent Q&A on Oxfurd's stream I believe). The difficulty of moving resources between planets will also affect the prices obviously.
But if the same resource can be gathered from both planets then beastman would have advantage? Or do I understand wrong that highlighted sentence or is that "same resource" a typo?
I would also like to address that demons actually have easiest access to all resources because for them it would not be a problem to travel other planets and do some gathering. For Beastmen it would be much more harder because they have to go out of their comfort zone and do something they really dislike. However, is this taken account somehow? Perhaps beastmen has easier access to Tartaros and less debuffs?
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@Tuoni Concerning the last paragraph: it works exactly the opposite. Beastmen have the freedom to travel between all 3 planets while demons can only invade Syn during aclipses. I'm guessing that evil demons can't access Arb at allm but I'm not sure.
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@Tuoni Now on the ropic of your suggestion. This diagram here is inherintly flawed and contridicts the devs' vision. Don't get me wrong, it's cool but we can't go on that much of a stretch here. It's design is unrealistic: PvE and PvP activities hate to be intertwined, you can't just split those right down the middle. And on top of that having both safe Arb difficulty zones is quite intuitive and plain nescessary: they are both PvP free as they are outside the "gate" radius which makes them safe and the only difference bring the difficulty of the PvE content. And this in turn is called a "difficulty curve" which is a given in any good game.
After all we just get the concept we started with. ':D
PS. I actually find it interesting how you accidentaly "discovered" that, that's cool haha
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@humerus
Open world PvE, but to be fair I really just meant anything that isn't instanced with private access.@PeachMcD
PvP is not always a way to express your aggression and piss other people off. In this case, it's a way to protect yourself against griefing. For example, you have a full party and start farming goblins. Suddenly a trio who wants the same spot comes and decides that maybe if they piss you off, you will leave and they get the spot so they start attacking the same mobs. I don't see how this can be solved without PvP or instanced dungeons.
Albion went f2p shortly after introducing RD. With the influx of new players this was a massive problem in the blue zone.@ price of resources
It's not only about the risk involved to gather the resource, but also about the opportunities in which people would lose the gear. On the demon planet, guilds will have to use high end gear at least for sieges, so the resources needed to craft them will be used, which will raise the price. On the other hand, there are less reasons to use top gear in Arboreus. In the end, items on demon planet will be more expensive than items on furries planet and these 2 races will fight each other on asteroids. Anyway, I agree with Tuoni that there are measures that can be taken to make this more fair.
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@humerus said in PvE Planet with PvP:
@Tuoni Concerning the last paragraph: it works exactly the opposite. Beastmen have the freedom to travel between all 3 planets while demons can only invade Syn during aclipses. I'm guessing that evil demons can't access Arb at allm but I'm not sure.
Nope. Demons can travel to other planets and perhaps even easier than other races. Eclipses are a specific event which happens between Tartaros and Syndesia. If demons could not travel to Arboreus how they would get access to unique resources or unlock certain abilities which need exploration to other planets?
"The prime way to travel to other planets, Stargates require a great deal of group effort to be summoned and don’t last for long. After crossing one, the time you’re allowed to stay on the new planet is limited and varies according to your race, your alignment and your destination. Demons are a notable exception to this rule, having been gifted by Babilis the ability to travel to other worlds more easily to bring terror to the other much hated races. However, the penalties they’ll be subject to are no smaller than those suffered by the other races… and sometimes, actually worse."
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@humerus said in PvE Planet with PvP:
@Tuoni Now on the ropic of your suggestion. This diagram here is inherintly flawed and contridicts the devs' vision. Don't get me wrong, it's cool but we can't go on that much of a stretch here. It's design is unrealistic: PvE and PvP activities hate to be intertwined, you can't just split those right down the middle. And on top of that having both safe Arb difficulty zones is quite intuitive and plain nescessary: they are both PvP free as they are outside the "gate" radius which makes them safe and the only difference bring the difficulty of the PvE content. And this in turn is called a "difficulty curve" which is a given in any good game.
After all we just get the concept we started with. ':D
PS. I actually find it interesting how you accidentaly "discovered" that, that's cool hahaI do not understand how this conflicts with current vision? If the vision has been that most parts of Arboreus is PvP free but there is still a part where PvP can happen, then we could presume that this happens around the stargates.
Also it would make sense that Arboreus is designed in way that it offers different PvE content for different kind of PvE players.Those who want to live peaceful life without having much risks (from PvP or PvE) can move a far away from more dangerous ares, in my picture to the left. When you start moving from left (safe) to right (hardcore) then environment little by little changes more dangerous and perhaps more rewarding. This also unlocks more trading possibilities. From this kind of world I am sure that all type of PvE players and guilds will found their place.
I think I do not quite understand of your point why this would not work so could you be more precise? This is a very good topic to discuss because there is a very little flesh given around the bones how the map will be implemented and how it takes account different type of PvE players.
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@Tuoni said in PvE Planet with PvP:
If demons could not travel to Arboreus how they would get access to unique resources or unlock certain abilities which need exploration to other planets?
I think they might not have access to those. I remember some time ago asking a similar thing on discord, and the response was that some content is restricted from demons. Then I asked if I can go demon -> angel -> demon and the answer was not because the angels can't lose karma.
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@PeachMcD there will always be players who will try to "push their own agenda" on "any side".
PvP players wanting more PvP on Arboreus, and PvE players pushing for less PvP on other two planets.
It's simply that part of people do not care for others, are selfish, and you can't expect any better from them.
But we trust that such players will not influence devs away from their vision.
We have good dev team here, and i have no worry we will end up with a MMO just as they promoted it.
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@Gothix Except that in this thread we pointed out flaws in the current system instead of pushing agendas. I'm not interested in Arboreus, other than thinking of starting as a deer-kin if that's going to be the optimal nuker and if the plot-system will work as I understand, having a house there which will be eventually sold when the prices skyrocket.
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Is 30 minutes going to be long enough for a player to hit the knowledge nodes from another planet? Does this mean you can traverse the entire planet in 30 minutes? Or does this mean you can do this from all the gates to every part of a planet?
