Extra races on Syndesia
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Perhaps if karma slowly changed look of your character (like choosing dark side in Star Wars) they you could after a while (enough negative points) recognize evil character by appearance... IF he has sunken deep enough already.
However if there are no such differences in physical appearance, then indeed there should be no way to recognize someones alignment, especially from a distance.
Perhaps (if devs chose this would be wise investment of resources), characters could have small physical appearance changes through karma changes, and if karma change is slight, then recognition would only work in close distance, when already in combat range, and if karma is extreme enough, then you would be able to recognize characters alignment from greater distance already.
Perhaps this type of recognition could also include your PERCEPTION as a factor, and depending on that, calculate at what distance from you other character must be for you to recognize its alignment.
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so a neutral human becoming bad will be automatically banished? or during an invasion a bad demon wanting to be good will insta kill you? there are transition periods where you wont know which alignment the player is going for.
even a flagged demon (negative karma) may want to become a positive karma character so they'll be red until they hit that neutral point.
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Have you ever played a game with flagging / karma system? As a human you start with 0 karma. Going from 0 karma to -1000 karma (or whatever) is a transition period. I feel that what we are arguing about is a very basic, old and widely implemented system.
@Gothix It's more about the hostility level, which is somehow linked to alignment. In most games you can easily recognize if a player is hostile or not by the color of their name (I can make a more detailed post about this if you need).
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I thought the flagging system was karma based not race based. A character isn't locked in their karma from what I understand which means a player can be any race and any karma given time. I also don't think you become banished from any planet which would imply you can't go there. If you are an opposed karma you suffer penalties not locked out from going there. How else would someone from another alignment obtain knowledge unlocks that require you to goto another planet?
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@Farlander said in Extra races on Syndesia:
I thought the flagging system was karma based not race based.
The thing is you cannot really talk in isolation about alignment, karma and planet because they are interlinked. Flagging cannot be entirely karma based because it's unfair in white to white pvp: if you are a white player and another white attacks you, you should be able to defense yourself without penalty. Well, with karma-based flagging, even if they attack you they are still white and if you riposte, you lose karma for attacking a white character. Even worse, if you are an angel you cannot attack them because angels can't do negative actions (attack other players). These being said, white players have to flag themselves up for pvp. I assumed we will have autoflagging for stuff like invasions, but I'm not aware of any information about that.
A character isn't locked in their karma from what I understand which means a player can be any race and any karma given time.
Demons cannot be good, first paragraph.
I also don't think you become banished from any planet which would imply you can't go there.
I wasn't talking about going there during invasions, but getting banished from your planet. Same link as above, but last paragraph.
If you are an opposed karma you suffer penalties not locked out from going there. How else would someone from another alignment obtain knowledge unlocks that require you to goto another planet?
PS: I might be wrong about angels not being able to lose karma (do negative actions). I remember reading it somewhere, but I can't source it.
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@Razvan said in Extra races on Syndesia:
Have you ever played a game with flagging / karma system? As a human you start with 0 karma. Going from 0 karma to -1000 karma (or whatever) is a transition period. I feel that what we are arguing about is a very basic, old and widely implemented system.
@Gothix It's more about the hostility level, which is somehow linked to alignment. In most games you can easily recognize if a player is hostile or not by the color of their name (I can make a more detailed post about this if you need).
i played UO. that aside. the transition period is the wiggle room within each alignment group. those groups be three; good, neutral, and bad. as an example if good karma is +1000 to +200, then there's a transition spot of about 500 to 200 where the person is obviously trying to be not-good. the +199 could be neutral grouped along with 0 and -199. that would give 400 pts of wiggle room to stay within or the person could hard push toward one or the other.
this isn't a 3 point karma system where you're good (+1), neutral (0), or bad (-1) without any wiggle room.
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@Razvan if I remember correctly there will be crime flagging - so if someone attacks you he will be crime flagged so you can defend yourself. And with Angels being locked to good - I think I've heard it too (probably one of Q&A) but couldn't find it.
edit: in the post you linked but last paragraph instead of first - it's about crime flagging:
As a Beastman, if you have a criminal flag (murderer, thief) or are cut off a Good alignment for whatever reason, you're cut off Arboreus. You don't want to get to that point unless your aim is to become an Abomination
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My take unless I'm wrong is beastmen are good and their planet is good based. On the opposite side are demons which they are evil and their planet is as well. If you are the opposite alignment on the planet you are flagged and immediately start a countdown on penalties that continue to worsen the longer you remain on the opposite alignment planet.
I was under the impression as human you are neutral and do not flag unless you slip one way or the other.
There is no white on white pvp as you put it because I thought because the good aligned world is no pvp period except during town raids. I guess if you goto the evil planet you could in essence attack anyone you want. I guess my question would be can beastmen and demons change alignment? I haven't read up much on the angel path.
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@Farlander said in Extra races on Syndesia:
There is no white on white pvp as you put it because I thought because the good aligned world is no pvp period except during town raids. I guess if you goto the evil planet you could in essence attack anyone you want. I guess my question would be can beastmen and demons change alignment? I haven't read up much on the angel path.
yes. so can humans.
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@Farlander said in Extra races on Syndesia:
can beastmen and demons change alignment?
iirc.
Demons can change alignment only after they gain high enough karma (likely through tribute / quests of some sort) to support changing to neutral+.
Beastmen can change alignment after traveling to Syndesia or Tartaros (they can't do it on Arboreus).
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@tulukaruk said in Extra races on Syndesia:
so if someone attacks you he will be crime flagged so you can defend yourself
Thank you! I have a document with a bunch of information and links to the sources so I just pasted it, but didn't reread the posts. Bottom line: neutral+ characters have to flag themselves for pvp.
@rest
Most stuff you asked about is answered in the dev posts I linked...
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Didn't really see anything on races besides what is on the wiki, which may or may not be accurate but according to it there are 3 demon, 4 beastman and human race.
They could go the standard route and introduce orcs, elves, goblins. The human "lore" describes them as having great technological advancement, creating artifacts and enhancing their bodies - some kind of robot esque race could be made if it fits their world but I don't want to see androids or cyborgs since that's not unique enoguh imo.
Based on the creature types that were in game (as far as I saw anyway) they could still do spider, wisp & treant inspired race.
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So basically in terms of UO we have Trammel and Felucia with another facet which is kind of Felucia without the karma penalties ticking away at you. Anyone can be any alignment over time so the races will eventually become a blur as to who is "good" or "evil". Sounds like the human lands will be the pvp grounds since being good or evil doesn't have any bearing on passive karma penalties. Beastman lands will probably be the most populated while the demon lands will be the least. My take anyway.
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@Farlander i believe demon world will be the pvp ground, because there is ffa pvp without karma penalties, but yeah.
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There will be a karma penalty for those with good karma I thought in the demon lands. The neutral lands have no penalties for either karma right? I assume the evil karma players will be killing each other in demon lands but I suspect just like Felucia few will venture there. Good based characters won't go there to pvp because of the penalties but will be looking for players in the neutral lands where no penalties exist for either side. I probably need to read up more on the lands lol.
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@Farlander said in Extra races on Syndesia:
There will be a karma penalty for those with good karma I thought in the demon lands. The neutral lands have no penalties for either karma right? I assume the evil karma players will be killing each other in demon lands but I suspect just like Felucia few will venture there. Good based characters won't go there to pvp because of the penalties but will be looking for players in the neutral lands where no penalties exist for either side. I probably need to read up more on the lands lol.
frequent invasions will happen between humans and demons with few invasions between demons and beast.
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@Jetah said in Extra races on Syndesia:
frequent invasions will happen between humans and demons with few invasions between demons and beast.
Evil humans will want to invade beasts as well. Dont underestimate human evil.
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@Gothix said in Extra races on Syndesia:
@Jetah said in Extra races on Syndesia:
frequent invasions will happen between humans and demons with few invasions between demons and beast.
Evil humans will want to invade beasts as well. Dont underestimate human evil.
they'll be on Tartaros anyways and i put them under the demon banner \o/
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I assume beastmen can do enough evil based karma stuff to become evil as well and the same for demons to become good. Right? Seems the karma is a sliding scale like UO was. If that is the case then over time the lines will blur on what to expect out of each race. Alot of people like that challenge to goto the other extreme than that which you had to start lol.
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Do you guys ever read each others' replies?
@Farlander I posted the link earlier. Maybe a screenshot will help more.
And anyway, what's the point of going through the transition quest as a lich/angel/abomination if there's no benefit in it?
Going back to the original point, I think clarity is very important when it comes to a fair gameplay. What I suggested is that we should have common appearance patterns for each alignment (to give a simple example, good = angelic look, neutral = normal, evil = demonic look). And common appearance patterns for each race (bear is a big creature, deer is a slim creature). This way they can sell skins without influencing gameplay whatsoever.
