Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology
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More of a balance question...
Each race can change its home world, some by changing alignment others electing to change to an advanced race. However, humans seem tied to Syndesia.
Once someone decides to change their home world, they no longer suffer from debuffs but humans will suffer from a lack of technology. If one of the main benefits of being human is technology and technology can only be unlocked on Syndesia, this seems like a balance issue. Yes, I understand that I can purchase implants or perhaps visit a human city to learn technology but no other race is tethered to their home world. Not speaking of town defenses rather implants or other individual technology. It makes sense to have town technologies tied to the growth and development of that specific town.
It requires a high level city on Syndesia to unlock Human tech. It's not there from day 1.
Since other races don't benefit from technology it seems highly unlikely I could unlock human tech while being part of a high level Tartaros or Arboreus town. And since other races cannot use Human technology what's the harm in allowing Humans to unlock it in off world cities...
If a player human and focused on advancement then there is no other home than Syndesia. Personally, I wouldn't sell tech to someone in order for them to use it against me... That is, if its even tradeable or teachable.
I was considering rolling an off-world human. Once again, I feel like I must be missing something.... Every other race that changes worlds is 100% and can still play and survive solo. More than likely thrive in a community, cept for humans? O.o
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@tsoo I actually think it would be interesting for humans to be more adaptable. Since humans can run the gamut of alignment, instead of having those who live off world be focused on technology maybe they can adjust to their surroundings?
I'm imagining a human on Tartaros gaining exceptional power as they struggle to survive, or a human who lives on Arboreus slowly becoming more attuned to nature and thus augmenting themselves that way. Of course, that should be roughly aligned with the technology progression...
Either way, it should indeed be something that is looked at.
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@tsoo Humans can remain on Tartaros as long as they want so they're not tethered to Syndesia. A Beastman has to change races completely to do that - by becoming evil, which a Human would also have to become evil to stay on Tartaros just by the karma loss.
Technology seems tied to Syndesia because that's where the resources are to fuel it (coal and oil). I'm not sure how the game will handle things like implants off Syndesia - maybe once they run out of power they are no longer effective - like maybe they run on batteries?. If implants last forever even off Syndesia and give benefits much like Demons and Beastmen get naturally then that's a balance issue since both Demons and Beastmen lose their innate abilities off world.
Demons are penalized the harshest in that unless they become an Angel are tethered to Tartaros more severely than Humans to Syndesia.
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Beastmen have to unlock their primal transformation, they don't start with it. I'm assuming this is something that can only be done on Arboreus, and I'm guessing demons will have to unlock their racial abilities in a similar way on Tartaros. Human augmentation could be similar, in that it's a one time permanent upgrade that confers new natural abilities, in which case it would only tether a human to Syndesia up until they get their augmentation.
@tsoo said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Since other races don't benefit from technology it seems highly unlikely I could unlock human tech while being part of a high level Tartaros or Arboreus town. And since other races cannot use Human technology what's the harm in allowing Humans to unlock it in off world cities...
Your second quote can be interpreted as only humans can craft steam tech, not that only humans can use it, but I guess it depends on what steam tech is being used for. For equipment or siege weapons, I don't see why other races wouldn't be able to use them even though it might be harder to acquire. Buildings can kinda make sense to restrict to Syndesia due to availability of energy resources, and maybe every planet gets unique buildings. Augmentations are the only thing I can think of that would make sense to restrict to only humans.
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@kellewic
being evil and doing the quest to become a demon are different. once your karma hits a certain negative level you're accepted on Tartaros.
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@target You are correct, my apologies. I forgot beastmen do have to unlock their transformation. I'm uncertain if it has to be done on their home world... time to research. But from a balance standpoint is does mean 2 races have an unlock. thank you
Only humans can benefit from technology.
However, even if the beastmen have to unlock on their homeworld, its still maybe an individual effort, such as a spirit walk. But humans are not only tied to the planet, they have to have an advanced city. So I can't just pop back to Syndesia perform some individual tasks and I have the new technology. If technology evolves at a rapid pace, it only makes sense to remain in Syndesia. I understand that I can chose never to return or chose to simply go without technology, but my concern was from a balance stand point.
Seems like every human will be 1. Good and 2. On Syndesia.
The pros outweigh the cons.
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@jetah said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
@kellewic
being evil and doing the quest to become a demon are different. once your karma hits a certain negative level you're accepted on Tartaros.Are you saying a Beastman, without going through to be an Abomination can live on Tartaros as long as they're sufficiently evil?
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@kellewic
yes.I'm going to guess some numbers.
10000 - 5000 is holy
4999 - -4999 is neutral
-5000 - -10000 is evilso long as you're -5k you're able to live on Tartaros. Now you may need -10k to get the demonic race unlocked.
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@kellewic said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Are you saying a Beastman, without going through to be an Abomination can live on Tartaros as long as they're sufficiently evil?
From the Alignment Spotlight:
Clearly states ANY Beastman has trouble staying on Tartaros, so the Karma / Alignment does not matter.
@jetah said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
10000 - 5000 is holy
4999 - -4999 is neutral
-5000 - -10000 is evil
so long as you're -5k you're able to live on Tartaros. Now you may need -10k to get the demonic race unlocked.From the same spotlight:
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@eurav I know; hence my question. I've never heard of a non-Abomination (Beastman) being able to stay on Tartaros.
Same for non-Beastman Good not being able to stay on Arboreus, holy or not, with the possible exception of Angels.
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Race could go on all planet but the time to stay in will be in function of the alignment. Beast and Demon will be ejected of their planet. And I think Evil Human or Good Human could stay in Syndesia and are not knocked out. So it would be a great advantage for this race.
To return on the main subject, technology : tech is based on research so I think a Town must build a research center (I understand like that the "not from day 1).
My interrogation is if one center is build by a guild, all human could benefit immediately or only guild and citizen of this city ?
So yes, at start, human would probably be in some difficulties (light I'll say) but don't forget :
- they have more characteristic point so they could have better maximized stats
- Demon must wait an eclipse to go on syndesia,
- portal is not easy to build (= need time)
- at start human are neutral so they have probably time to unlock tech abilities before to go staying permanently on Tartaros or Arboreus
Other questions :
Human would be citizen of an evil town (on Syndesia or Tartaros) ?
Human could have two citizenship (one by planet) ?
Evil Human would have the possibilities to build town on Tartaros from scratch (like a colony ?)
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@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
they have more characteristic point so they could have better maximized stats
I would not say that, since Beastmen and Demons can get higher values at specific stats, they will be more specialized in certain areas than Humans can ever hope to be, giving them significant advantages in those areas.
In terms of combat, a coordinated group of specialists should not lose to a coordinated group of allrounders
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Demon must wait an eclipse to go on syndesia,
That´s not true, you can go anytime you are prepared and have a portal. Eclipse only makes it easier and gives some benefits.
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
at start human are neutral
From the Alignment Spotlight:
"Humans are born with slightly positive Karma, and can choose any alignment."
So you can start as Good Aligned Human and instantly go to Arboreus if that is what you want to do.
You can also start with Evil Alignment...@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Human would be citizen of an evil town (on Syndesia or Tartaros) ?
Well.. yeah? why not? If you wanna be a Evil Human and live in Syndesia, do it; if you want to be a Evil Human and live on Tartaros, go ahead.
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Human could have two citizenship (one by planet) ?
cititzenship is basically the right to live in a country; every race has the right to live on another planet. Will only work better for some than others.
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Evil Human would have the possibilities to build town on Tartaros from scratch (like a colony ?)
I am pretty sure you can only be governor of one town
Also I don´t see a reason for a Human to make a town in Tartaros, unless you want to live there.Also if you have a Demon character, you most likely will already have a house / be governor on Tartaros (since you can only build one house per planet per account)
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@eurav said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
they have more characteristic point so they could have better maximized statsI would not say that, since Beastmen and Demons can get higher values at specific stats, they will be more specialized in certain areas than Humans can ever hope to be, giving them significant advantages in those areas.
In terms of combat, a coordinated group of specialists should not lose to a coordinated group of allrounders@Eurav I do some template test, you need a lot of points to spend after reaching 18 so an Evil and a Demon could have 1 hight stat or 2 but you'll have a backfire : you're extremely weak on others. A Human by nature is more versatile, so you could easily obtain 3 stat at 18 and 3 stat at 10 (or 4 at 18 and 2 at 6). And with the bonus branch ability system you could obtain at less a 20 on two (or three but I'm not sure). You could also have a native 15 all stats so a human could be also more resilient and more difficult to kill in one on one (based on stat). So we need to wait real experience in Alpha and Beta to see
@Eurav says
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology: Demon must wait an eclipse to go on syndesia,
That´s not true, you can go anytime you are prepared and have a portal. Eclipse only makes it easier and gives some benefits.
That's why I say after the portal need time to be build
Eclipse is the easy way. And I don't remember where it's writed but in my memory a builded planet portal have a time-limit is not eternal.@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
at start human are neutralFrom the Alignment Spotlight:
"Humans are born with slightly positive Karma, and can choose any alignment."
So you can start as Good Aligned Human and instantly go to Arboreus if that is what you want to do.
You can also start with Evil Alignment...Ok I take a shortcut, sorry : Syndesia is neutral so human alignment doesn't have any impact on the world (a part of NPC town side-effect probably) like exclusion. And you can't travel immediately to Arboreus/Tartaros since you must find the path to it first. Having a Good/Evil alignment and the Karma to do it is not the same. You could select an evil alignment but that doesn't mean you have a karma evil, you need to "prove" it first.
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Human could have two citizenship (one by planet) ?
citizenship is basically the right to live in a country; every race has the right to live on another planet. Will only work better for some than others.
I talk about mechanic system here, could you vote for two governor ?, could you benefit of both buildings?
@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
Evil Human would have the possibilities to build town on Tartaros from scratch (like a colony ?)I am pretty sure you can only be governor of one town
That I'm not sure governor is race restricted ?, if you are a Syndesia's town human governor and you are elected on a Arboreus's town since you could be an Arboreus citizen ? what happen ?
Also I don´t see a reason for a Human to make a town in Tartaros, unless you want to live there.
Not a problem : to have a bridghead, Evil human could want to make demon slavery, securing some planet human path, be able to constantly fight in a pvp environment... be evil is not to be necessarily friends with demon
A bridgehead is also interesting for Beast and Human merchant
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@gofrit said in Unlocking human (rather Syndesia) technology:
That I'm not sure governor is race restricted ?, if you are a Syndesia's town human governor and you are elected on a Arboreus's town since you could be an Arboreus citizen ? what happen ?
A character can only own one house. So one character can´t be governor of two towns. If you already are governor in a Syndesia town (or you just live there) then you already have a house there which is yours. To be able to be elected as a governor for a town on Arboreus, you would need to build a house there (if you build a house while owning one, you will lose ownership of the previous house after a day, so you have some time to remove your resources).
The maxium you can do, is create three characters, and have each of them govern a town on each of the planets. That´s the maximum you can do.
