Let's talk about recipes
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Difference in durability loss between melee and range is definitely an issue and has been brought up before. Loss in durability should be approximately equal between different playstyles so melee is not in disadvantage. There is already loss of durability on death, where in the group it is more probable it will be melee who will die than ranged.
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@GorTavaro
Perhaps introduce material "hardness", so that melee gear can take more punishment than ranged gear? Or, just give melee gear more total durability to make up for the difference.
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They already have more durability.
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@spoletta said in Let's talk about recipes:
Syndesia isn't really a pvp world. There's a few reds going around, but the penalties are harsh enough to discourage many from trying.
Yeah... Reds even tried to gank me on Terra... which is the PVE world ! hahahahaha
So... responding to Bloggs, yes.... if you're out ot Terra... it IS a gank fest... if they find you on the map of corse, which is huge.
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I don't currently have a problem with the system in place, although I thought it would be pretty cool if I can also learn unique recipes from killing a certain amount of enemies or type of enemies, I assume we don't already have something like this.
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@spoletta said in Let's talk about recipes:
They already have more durability.
It is not good enough solution because players are reporting that melee can lose armor in 2-3h while ranged cast last days.
Also what do you count as melee gear? You can have caster with plate or melee at cloth and it works.@Roccandil said in Let's talk about recipes:
@GorTavaro
Perhaps introduce material "hardness", so that melee gear can take more punishment than ranged gear? Or, just give melee gear more total durability to make up for the difference.Interesting idea. I wouldn't be opposed to just removing durability decrease while hit, until there is better solution at place.
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I once proposed to remove durability on hit and simply apply a rate of decay on items equipped based on time spent in combat, but it was vehemently rejected.
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@spoletta said in Let's talk about recipes:
Syndesia isn't really a pvp world. There's a few reds going around, but the penalties are harsh enough to discourage many from trying.
I think the penalties should be less severe than they are today. a little bit less.
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1 and 2 could be solved with 0 effort by drastically increasing the drop rate of recipes and including them in the ingredients so that 1 recipe -> craft 1 item.
But then again, this is just how artifacts work in Albion Online, and they solved all of the other points that you pointed out here so...
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@drakelow this was once proposed and discussed, but the players were very against it.
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Definitely have an issue with crafting
First basic recipes are too rare. A crafter shouldn't have to take on a CR4 or CR5 just to get a basic armor/weapon recipe.
Second why do mages go from a primitive staff to elemental staff? There should be a mage staff in between, maybe one that does slightly better damage and a bonus from the wood it's made fromCrafting in general is a grinders wet dream
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I can see that the basic idea of recipes is to tie crafting progression to the player, not to the city.
With that in mind, a suggestion: Add a city building that allows players to buy both recipes and crafting training.
Available recipes could be limited to research, meaning one city couldn't unlock all recipes. Crafting training could either provide direct exp (if there's a desire to reduce item spam), or an exp boost to actual crafting. The magnitude of training could also be gated by city level/research.
That would tie cities back into crafting research and specializations, while keeping earned crafting progression tied to the player.
Oh, and I was assuming city recipes wouldn't be an item: you'd just unlock it directly (so no buying recipes and selling them). Recipe items could still be a drop from bosses and chests, so hermits would still have a chance at them.
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Hum...
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I think it will be ok to access of the tier2 (and tier3) only when the crafter attain the level max of the tier 1 :
example : Cloth Tier 1 ranked legend -> Cloth Tier 2 normal.
-> impact at the starting of game could be measured but to be sure of reducing the impact of mad's crafter i would put a 2nd condition (see after).
-> don't resolve the "trash item", but personally I put my craft in market at something like 1,20,50,100,1000 gold, and i destroy a lot green/blue (so a little recycling would be nice, and could be good to have the name of the crafter on it by the way) -
you revamped the quest system, use it ! The crafter to have full access to tier 2, need to do a specific quest like go to a specific zone to read a carved stones with schematics or kill boss (tier 1->tier 2 : on his own world, tier 2->tier 3 on another world). This quest need to be started when the character has maximized his tier 1 item.
-> maybe difficult to do it in solo, it will be not too early in game, good for group quest with objective, good for guild system. -
you could also improve the system tree based on the crafting to allow a player choice to develop the tier 2 branch like he want.
Example : As a crafter i meet the 2 condition above on cloth (legendary tier1 and quest) so now I need to choose on the 2 Tier 2, the one i'll develop. I choose the Scholar. So now I could craft this one with the components gathered. The subtlety is here : When I'll pass a level in the tier (white->green, green->blue), i could open an another branch.
->It's an another restriction on the crafting system and put the crafter in a situation of specialization (already the case by the way since gold and components are crazy to obtain to up tier 2 level without a guild), but in counterpart the crafter didn't have to count on luck or gold mountain to access of all the recipes
-> Could work on the weapon crafting system : I'll take the fire staff, and when fire staff will become green, I'll take energy staff, and so on until i unlock all the branch.
What do you think ?
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@Roccandil said in Let's talk about recipes:
Available recipes could be limited to research, meaning one city couldn't unlock all recipes. Crafting training could either provide direct exp (if there's a desire to reduce item spam), or an exp boost to actual crafting. The magnitude of training could also be gated by city level/research.
This is a good idea, but I think we need to limit the training, by irl day or in function of your own crafting time (Note at myself : better than irl day for sure, why i proposed that ?). It will be a good hole for gold but this building could be misused if not restrained.
Another problem to me is the couple : city+crafter, year ago (on Myr) I was crafting on another city because my city was focused on a branch that was not my priority. Is good for commerce and inter-city /inter-guild communication but bad for the legs of my horse and my purse.
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I really like the details and discussion of this thread that Spoletta has written. He has made many interesting points and this has inspired me to contribute my suggestions.
I would prefer that the dev removes the recipes completely. Just gate all the crafting of T2 gear behind reagents and materials. This will immediately solve point 1 and point 2 as mentioned by Spoletta. No more hoarding of recipes. This will also encourage the trade between players for reagents and materials.
I would also prefer that the experience of T1 gear can only increase the durability of the T1 gear and this should not have any bonus on the durability of T2 gear. Make it such that every crafting of a gear will give only marginal increase in experience in one crafting at a time and every crafting will only improve the durability by 1 point per item crafted. RNG can also be introduced in determining whether experience can be increased when crafting a gear. For example, there is 50% chance that experience might not increase when an item is crafted. The dev can also make it such that as your crafting experience is higher, the lower the chance you will get an increase in experience each time you craft a gear. This will solve point 3. No more trying to max out crafting experience of T1 gear so that you can get bonus on durability of T2 gear. No more trying to do mass crafting of items to reach max durability.
Point 4 will be solved automatically since recipes are removed from the game.
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@stkmro said in Let's talk about recipes:
RNG can also be introduced in determining whether experience can be increased when crafting a gear. For example, there is 50% chance that experience might not increase when an item is crafted.
I very much hope the devs -don't- do that.
Wurm Online had it, and I hated it. Made me feel like I was wasting my time playing.The current guaranteed incremental return on the investment of time spent is much nicer.
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Maybe making recipes a slightly more common drop and then requiring the recipe as part of items consumed in the crafting mechanic.
It's never a bad thing to reward players who play the game. It's also part of the system and makes sense for groups to funnel materials to a crafter if they so choose.
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I think the best crafting system is one that is put into production. So dev time should really be a big factor in any changes.
But as a dedicated crafter, I do think crafting is way too easy in this game. There's this artificial worry about recipes at the beginning, and then that goes away. Replaced by a grind experience, which I'm fine with.
I was able to get 2.5 sets of knight armor produced in the 2-week window. That just seems way too easy. Now sure, it was poor quality, and that gets better over time, but there's very little a crafter can do to increase that. So I end up running an adventure character that spends most of their time farming will stones.
I don't really care how it gets harder. But I would prefer that it be harder to get to the point where T2 armor is made. And hard to stay there.
Hard is fun.
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This is a game where equipment has a limited life. It cannot be too hard to make.
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Maybe have the ability to "practice". This would increase your skill as a crafter, would take resources, but would not necessarily take the same resources, and would increase your skill without producing an item.
So maybe crafting knight armor "for practice" would take a quarter of the resources, but wouldn't actually make the armor.
And then instead of recipes, you just had to get good enough with T0 to make T1, good enough with T1 to make T2, etc...
Keeping the recipes is still fine as well. But it would be better if crafting skill was also a gate.
