Regarding Crowd Control
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Hi, back again with yet another feedback post.
There is something I find troubling about abilities with crowd control that I noticed after frantically running around from hotspot to hotspot while trying not to die (which I failed miserably a few times). Basing all of my examples entirely off a player with zero Fortitude, Luck, and Willpower, whenever a player is hit by an ability with crowd control, they are debilitated by that crowd control for its base duration. If the same player is hit by the same ability with control from another source, the base duration of that crowd control is unconditionally added to the player's remaining duration of that specific crowd control that is already debilitating them.
Status effects applying their durations additively is not a good thing because this means multiple NPCs or players can chain abilities with the same status effect to debilitate a victim—or an assailant if they are receiving boons—with any sort of crowd control or malady with the intention of extending it to a lengthy duration if they do not have the Fortitude, Luck, or Willpower to resist, negate, or reduce it to a duration that will expire before the ability's cooldown from every source that used it refreshes. Whenever a status effect is applied, one of these three things should happen:
The status effect refreshes to the highest duration from the source that applied it after a skill contest regardless of rather that source was unique or the same.
- Assailant #1 applies Crippled to Victim #1 which gets its duration reduced by Fortitude due to failing the skill contest against Fortitude.
- Assailant #2 also applies Crippled to Victim #1 which refreshes the duration to the fullest due to winning the skill contest.
- Assailant #1 reapplies Crippled to Victim #1 which wins the skill contest this time and refreshes the duration to the fullest.
The durations of status effects can continue to stack as unique applications but with diminishing returns after each unique application's skill contest before being combined.
- Assailant #1 applies Crippled to Victim #1 for its full duration due to winning the skill contest.
- Assailant #2 applies Crippled to Victim #1 for an additional reduced duration due to failing the skill contest that
totals to a diminished value by the currently applied Crippled's duration. - Assailant #1 reapplies Crippled to Victim #1 for a reduced duration this time due to failing the skill contest, but it is ignored because the current combined duration of Crippled upon Victim #1 exceeding the duration they could have applied based on their first personal application.
- Assailant #2 reapplies Crippled to Victim #1 for its full duration this time due to winning the skill contest which raises the duration of Crippled to the duration of their second personal application because the combined duration of Crippled on Victim #1 finally declined low enough for it to be exceeded by older unique applications.
The durations of status effects can continue to stack additively, but each status effect should have a maximum duration that cannot be exceeded no matter how many times it has been reapplied once reached.
The first suggestion prevents status effects from exceeding their base durations which will give the debilitated a chance to properly retaliate if their abilities that would cleanse them are on cooldown (if they happen to have them), the second suggestion allows for NPCs and players to make the most out of their abilities through coordination without the stacked durations of the crowd control, boons, or maladies becoming too oppressive and substantial due to the diminishing returns, and the last suggestion allows for status effects to remain as they are but with a hard cap on their durations which makes counterplay possible—somewhat similarly to the first suggestion.
Lastly, if status effects are going to continue to stack in one way or another, the amount of stacks should be shown as a little number on their respective icons under our resource bars at the top left of the screen and atop the ones above our characters' and the NPCs' floating resource bars.
I think that's about everything, so hopefully one of those suggestions can rein in status effects into a more controllable and engaging state.
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I'm quite sure that right now when you receive a second crowd control, it doesn't add. It just refreshes to the new effect.
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choosing to not use any of the defensive abilities to avoid or reduce CC is up to you.
There are consequences.
As there would be for choosing to fight a mob with no armor, no weapons, no stats...
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I do not know what is the situation in Fractured so I speak in general about crowd control. If a game has too much CC it can affect negatively to the gameplay and promote locking playstyle. Spending too much time locked and being unable to play is not fun from player perspective. Thus, usually games handle this by adding diminishing return effect to the CC abilities preventing stun-silence-root locking.
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As @spoletta said, the CC abilities are not additive, they just reset the duration.
Also, as @OlivePit said, choosing to dump-stat your defensive abilities has consequences. The game intentionally wants to make every Stat meaningful for every character, so there is no real easy Dump stat. You can dump a stat, or average it out, but there are consequences to doing so. More even builds are thus encouraged, with just one Stat being relatively higher, and maybe just 1 stat being sacrificed for most builds.
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@spoletta said in Regarding Crowd Control:
I'm quite sure that right now when you receive a second crowd control, it doesn't add. It just refreshes to the new effect.
Running through hotspots showed me otherwise. If different sources apply the same crowd control, they additively and infinitely.
@OlivePit said in Regarding Crowd Control:
choosing to not use any of the defensive abilities to avoid or reduce CC is up to you.
There are consequences.
As there would be for choosing to fight a mob with no armor, no weapons, no stats...I don't see what this has to do with the problem I explained about infinitely stacking status effects—most importantly crowd control. What Tuoni mentioned in their comment is what I'm trying to rectify before it becomes a problem in the future when the player-base grows.
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Inspire boosts evasion and fortitude, and gives immunity to fear.
also is a counter.
as is
There are ways to use your stats / skills / equipment to nullify and ignore CC. Just because you choose to not use them does not mean they do not exist and that CC needs to be removed or changed.
It is unfortunate that population is low, in that it is difficult to build a team that can cover all the possible weaknesses of any particular build. but that does not justify the call to making the game such that there is no challange.
If you take the time to observe the enemy, figure out its weaknesses, abilities, and then ways to counter them (or just look at the wiki) you can totally build a char that can solo the targeted mob with no problem. This is shown in ppl like Rife, Ace, Bullen, etc etc etc..
Do as they do and figure it out, or work together with a group, it is totally doable.
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@OlivePit said in Regarding Crowd Control:
There are ways to use your stats / skills / equipment to nullify and ignore CC. Just because you choose to not use them does not mean they do not exist and that CC needs to be removed or changed.
Do as they do and figure it out, or work together with a group, it is totally doable.While I appreciate the... explanation, I'm very confused as to why you're making this out to be a skill issue with all of these assumptions about how I play and these explanations when the main point of this topic is about the way crowd control stacks.
I am very well aware of how skill checks work, and I am also aware that there are abilities within our repertoire that can be used against crowd control; however, that is not what my topic is about. This is not a complaint about how awful crowd control is to deal with. This is a complaint about how status effects seem to infinitely stack when applied by different sources. Lastly, none of those boons persist when you are on horseback which was how I was traveling from hotspot to hotspot when I noticed how long Crippled lasted on me when I was no longer in immediate danger.
You missed the point in its entirety.
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An update to the problem I explained in the main post:
Upon closer inspection after a few more tests, it seems like the issue I explained above about the infinitely stacking status effects in an additive manner is a hopefully unintended bug that inconsistently happens whenever multiples of the same crowd controls from different sources are either rapidly applied at once or steadily applied before it can expire.
What sparked my interest in this issue in the first place was when I left a Bandit Camp after a hotspot trek with the 'Crippled' status effect that lasted at least fourteen seconds when I noticed how long I was slowed on horseback.
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I am certain that horses are not meant to be used to blatantly rush through mob camps, if they get caught then that is using the wrong thing for the wrong purpose.
Horses are fast travel tools in open lands.
If you want to ignore mob camps use stealth... that is what it is for.oh, and your talents and stats do affect your horses resistances and effects.
Charisma tree, indominable, ignores first effect every 10 sec and improves resistance chance greatly.
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I would go further and say rushing through mobs instead clearing is just abusing the game a little (in every mmo), if you do that be prepared for the risks (Of course I do it too, but just deal with it when I do fail and die)
As for the CC op I think you just think the CC adds up because when you are being hit and slowed it just feels like ages.
Most mobs run in a line and throw a chain cc instead of all throwing it in one go
(especially skeletal warriors, I have been stuck for like 8 seconds once trying to rush to skeletal dragon spot)
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Is there any way we can petition Static Pull skill to be changed to a melee Heavy armor instead of a mage skill? Seems completely useless as a mage skill with Light/med armor..... or maybe even add a Chain Pull for tanks, since it's clear Light and Medium armor are getting the most favor in this game.
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The ballance of giving more abilities to Medium/light is due to the staggering defenses that heavy armor gives. Do not expect this to change.
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then don't expect to have a game last.... If heavy armor doesn't get treated the same with skill quality or even skills that should be for them and not med/light like Static Pull then ppl will lose interest as so many already have.
In what reality was someone thinking lets give the glass cannons and classes that can't take on damage the ability to draw multiple enemies on to them so they can be one shotted by the group...... Come one use your brain... any kind of "Pull" should be given to heavy armor.... you can even take away the damage of the skill altogether. Heavy armor just needs a pull.
Even if Heavy armor doesn't get as many skills then at least make the skill tree more expansive and diverse. As it stands the itty bitty skill tree is a joke compared to other games. For the love of god don't take that in a way to say " hey, lets do away with the skill tree" lol cuz that's not what I'm saying. The idea of the skill tree and unique builds is by far the best path you can take for games like this and definitely the most favorable amongst real mmo, sand box, and survival gamers.
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@RavenCypher Just because Pull is iconic for traditional Tank builds, doesn't mean that every game has to follow that trope.
FO doesn't use an Aggro mechanic, so traditional Tanky tricks aren't as prevalent. I actually like the gamble of seeing the squishier characters pull and then run, or pull for the Tank. Pull has always in my book, been more of a mobility character trait, not a Tank trait. Tanks take the Aggro, but the Ranged DPS guy is usually the Puller, as pulling and kiting go hand in hand, you get the mob to follow you and you use your mobility to stay ahead of them and kite.
