Metal Gear not so Solid
-
I've crafted my first copper long sword and I'm so proud of it!
Then proceeded the hack down some goblins with it.
After about 1000 gold farmed (and about 50 wolf meat, since wolves are always in the way), my sword is already at 50% durability.
Ok ok, I'm all good with gear deteriorating so that you always have to replace it, but a copper sword costing 15 raw ores and 12 charcoals is lasting so little while the primitive spear was like eternal?
I don't know what the prices will be in the end for stuff like copper, coal or an already made sword but well, it looks like a bit fast breaking for a metal item.
All considered other equipment categories (non-metal) look easier to obtain in effort terms, and probably have similar if not better durabilities.
Going full metal equip just to see it break down after 2000 gold farmed could be a little too much.
-
XD that is fcking amazing for a copper sword!! you should try using bows. the durability on those goes down way faster. I would get maybe 300 goblins out of a bow if i am lucky. I always carry around 2 bows with me, because they die so fast.
Do you realise how soft copper is as a metal? I wouldn't expect copper to last very long at all. I would expect gold armour to last only about 3 hits too, due to how malleable it is. It's why gold has like 10 durability in minecraft, compared to diamond with 200 or so (honestly though, diamond should have less durability than iron, as it shatters rather easily, as much as it is a very hard mineral..)
-
@Xzait to make a bow you need a couple of logs you can get from a nearby tree and rope from a nearby plant, which means that you can craft around infinite bows with little effort.
To make a copper sword you need 12 smelter-hours, 15 raw copper and 12 charcoal, supposing you can manage to have easy access to those resources.
The fact that in reality copper is soft is ok, the fact that in game balance melee characters have an incredibly high effort to gear up compared to other stuff and their gear breaks down so fast is less ok.
Realism is always subordinate to game balance and mechanics, otherwise you wouldn't have magic, since in the real world it doesn't exist.
-
@GreatValdus so make and use more smelters on your plot, instead of just 1. When the city your are residing with unlocks advanced smelting, your crafting speed will be double as well, if you make advanced smelters.
-
@Xzait that would address only the time, not how many "hard" resources go away compared to the "easy" ones you need for bows, for example.
-
@GreatValdus I personally don't find it difficult to gather minerals. Yes, you do need alot more of them still, but you can have a new set every 4h from nothing, whereas, it takes 16h to cure leather to make mage sets. The only way around this, I can see, is if the devs make it so 5 raw ore, smelts into 2 or 3 ingots, now that ingots are no longer 'heavy materials'.
-
There is a reason Ancient man went for Bronze weapons over Copper.. Adding a bit of Tin to Copper creating the Bronze Alloy increased its durability 100x.
Yes, Copper weaponry is expensive in effort/supplies to craft, and yes, it doesn't last long, but really, you don't stop at making your weapons out of copper, you do your copper weapon first as proof of concept, then any future copper you turn into something more managable, like Arrow heads or coins, works of art, etc... in a culture. You start mixing Tin with your copper to make that Alloy, then you go from Bronze to Iron, and from Iron to Steel, then various types of exotic fantasy Steels....I assume eventually, that's how Fractured is going to do it.
Games like Old School RuneScape show you how to do it, you train your skill working up through the materials, until your crafting Runite Weapons and Armor, but you start with Bronze.
-
@Xzait leather is just a trivial problem of curing time, but you can gather tons of leather with nearly no effort at all by killing wolves scattered everywhere, same for wood logs which you can get literally anywhere.
Different kinds of metal require you to travel far, with a cart, meaning a lot of chances to be ganked on the way forth or back, same for coal, so I don't think you can compare at all the difficulty of acquiring full metal gear against leather or wood.@GamerSeuss again we're not playing an historical simulation, we're playing a game containing magic different worlds and races, game mechanics should be balanced around difficulty/reward.
To create even the easiest alloy existing you need an advanced smeltery on Fractured, so it's highly harder to get bronze than it is to get copper, which means that copper, as your starting material, should be at least decend in durability, considering how much you need to get a single longsword.
-
When using metal weapons, it is important to balance need vs resources.
Using a weapon which requires 3 ingots to kill some goblins, means wasting resources.I do agree though that the other materials are too easy to handle.
Leather is somewhat fine because you need a lot of time to make it.
Wood at least requires you to get a cart and go around chopping trees, but it should have a processing step or its value is almost zero. After all you can't make boards out of fresh wood, you need to let it dry. Adding a facility to store and dry woods could be a good addition.
Medium armors and cloth armors are a complete misfit with the rest of the processes. They both require you to just kill a mob, gets its skin/fiber and you can already make the armor. The value of such an item is zero. Takes no time or effort.
In my opinion, hide armors should be limited to primitive items. Medium armors should be made of leather and a little bit of metal (Studded leather?).
For cloths too I would like to see a processing facility added. Have them macerate for a time before weaving. This way they become similar to leather as a resource. Easy to acquire but require time to be processed.
-
@spoletta the problem is that if you're melee and don't go for metal you have really little options, and while farming goblins you might encounter something nastier which requires a little more than a primitive spear.
Not to mention that copper sword damage is kinda low, considering how hard it is to craft, compared to primitive weapons and how easy it is to craft.
That said, you're probably right and I've overkilled by bringing a sword to a goblin fight, even if I still took a lot to kill enforcers even then.
-
@GreatValdus something @CoachFubar told me last night... Only take something with you, if you are able to make at least 5x the worth back. There is no point in taking full plate mail and a warhammer,if you are only going to kill deer and wolves.
If you are gathering food... either don't take anything at all, or wear some basic primitive equipment. Reduce the risk for the reward, while still being able to do what you aim to do, with relatively little effort.
you dont need more than hide armour, even as a tank, for goblin hills, if you havea tank build.
-
@Xzait yes clearly that is something I must learn to balance out.
If I'm going for easy stuff I shouldn't bring my best gear, that's clear now.
-
One of the key principals of this game is to load-out your character based on what your hunting/accomplishing.
Afraid of PvPers, have a PvP Load-out and Talent/Skill Preset combination best suited to counter them.
Going against Wisps and Treents, have a build set for that
Food and Reagent gathering, have a minimalistic approach setup.
-
@GreatValdus said in Metal Gear not so Solid:
(...)If I'm going for easy stuff I shouldn't bring my best gear, that's clear now.
And consider adding durability as an enchantment for that kind of equipment! Tier 2 durability enchantment can go a long way. (Just a suggestion, I know it takes up a valuable slot, but it does help with your issue)
-
@Logain that's a good idea too!
Which reminds me I've never enchanted anything and have no idea of how it works!
-
@GreatValdus said in Metal Gear not so Solid:
(...)I've never enchanted anything and have no idea of how it works(...)
Enchanting basically requires a enchanting table in a town that has researched the technology for the tier you're looking at (there's tier 1, 2 and 3 but I'm not sure if you can reach 3 yet). You want to gather the right reagents, put that into the table and hit enchant (make sure the item you're looking at can be enchanted).
A possible and easy to get combination would be penny, penny, amanita, troll liver and dark splinter.
Does that help you?
-
@Logain thanks, I will have to try it!
Which means I will have to check if we have built an enchantment table in town actually, I remember almost building the mage shop alone a couple days ago! XD
-
@GreatValdus said in Metal Gear not so Solid:
(...)I will have to check if we have built an enchantment table(...)
If not, you can send me a private message and we can try to meet in-game. I'd let you use the tables in my house.
-
@Logain ah right, I could build one in my house too, now that I think about it!
-
@Logain said in Metal Gear not so Solid:
@GreatValdus said in Metal Gear not so Solid:
(...)If I'm going for easy stuff I shouldn't bring my best gear, that's clear now.
And consider adding durability as an enchantment for that kind of equipment! Tier 2 durability enchantment can go a long way. (Just a suggestion, I know it takes up a valuable slot, but it does help with your issue)
I can vouch for this @GreatValdus. In previous tests, i was adding Tier 2 durebi8lity to my bows, which made them last twice as long. If you are running around with mediocre gear, that you aren't planning to deck out, it is extremely useful.
