Cities, Permissions, Griefing
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@Farlander I agree with @GamerSeuss that the fact that you must "compete" to use a smelter is an intended feature to force some planning in what to do and when, otherwise a single structure could server an unlimited amount of players.
So no, instancing removes the intended behaviour, but for sure a way to limit access to a list of trusted players would be nice.
If not, an operations log, so you know exactly who did what and when.
Who placed that copper in the smelter?
Who took the ingots?
Who canceled production wasting materials?
This way you can punish griefers without removing the interesting idea of shared limited resource.
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@GreatValdus If the city can say who uses facilities then there is no competition for them. Your argument is invalid. I'd rather the competition be who can make the best items to sell rather than if you are even able to get your resources processed to make items. First time I put my resources into a processing piece of equipment and they get stolen I'm out of this game. In the game world there are no consequences for crimes because true justice doesn't exist. Justice is in the form of time delays and flags for the offender are a joke. Those who have the crimes perpetrated against them get no justice or recompense. They only get grief and frustration. I'm not going to play a game where I'm constantly feeling frustrated.
Even if your resources could not be accessed, having only a set few processing stations that are public could mean that some players are NEVER able to process their resources depending upon when those timers end. It's not like you can put your stuff into a que so that your stuff eventually goes into production. Why do people constantly feel a game has to be hard and realistic to be fun.
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This argument is actually mute, as time consuming tasks are able to be done on a personal plot. There is no reason to use city smelters and tanning tubs, and doubtful that a city would spend the resources to make them, instead we will have all of them put onto a personal plot with "guild only" or other permissions added to them.
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@Farlander I'm not talking about the aggressive kind of competition, but the one based on planning the usage of a shared resource in a crowded environment.
If you put your resources in a public smelter then you're providing resources to the city, and the next person will take them to craft something for the city, since only citizens will be able to do that.
Better if the users list can be further thinned out by chosing which citizens are trustworthy for smelter usage.Then as @Ostaff points out, the ability to build smelter and tanner in you personal plot will make public ones probably unused at all.
For what matters difficulty and realism in game, some players like it, some don't.
A lot of games are already doing it the carebear way, like nodes that everyone can mine, no matter if another player just mined it a second ago or crafting tables usable at will with no time gate and no cooldown.
Fewer game prefer a different approach, making distances count, making defense of scarce resources count, it's a matter of choice, there's not actually a good or bad way of doing it, you just need to find the balance you like the most.
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@GreatValdus Not all citizens of a city may necessarily be working together. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who would take those resources for themselves.
@Ostaff I'm glad it's a mute topic but I want to make sure I voice my opinion for those who are trying to change that aspect of the game. I was under the impression in this thread others were advocating to make it harder to process materials.
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@Farlander said in Cities, Permissions, Griefing:
@Ostaff I'm glad it's a mute topic but I want to make sure I voice my opinion for those who are trying to change that aspect of the game. I was under the impression in this thread others were advocating to make it harder to process materials.
hmm.. no.. I think that thread was the "Brilliant Idea" guy's thread (Boogis) where he tried to advocate his "brilliance" by increasing crafting times across the board. This one, I believe, was just talking about what we've discussed in the past about permissions being needed on assets to keep thieves away.
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@Farlander that's why a permission system or a log to ban citizens based on their behaviour with common resources should be good to keep that kind of griefing to the minimum.
Then as @Ostaff says, this thread was exactly about this, I'm not for making it easier or harder, as I already said I see potential interest in both ways, so I'll just take what they'll give us for that matter, but griefing no, griefing must be prevented when it's not interactable.
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@Prometheus Also you guys could try this idea.
If a smelter gets activated by another player while the original user is smelting, flag them for pvp for stealing. If they get ko'd in town while stealing send them to jail for stealing. Time would be dictated by the crime. It would create a gameplay situation for people who like to spec theives.
Just flag the offender for commiting a crime then the player/bounty hunter/possible police force in the city, can stop the offender.
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@GreatValdus i feel as if this is aimed because you dont want to be "griefed" what you call greifing i can a gameplay mechanic.
Think of this. Im a solo player and everything is hard to come by. So I sit in town and try to steal a stack of crafted things because i dont have the time or money to get my own.
Instead of preventing me from playing, enhance the situation so you can defend your spoils. Such as my above suggestion. Make the offender flagged for stealing.
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@Kurbbie said in Cities, Permissions, Griefing:
@Prometheus Also you guys could try this idea.
If a smelter gets activated by another player while the original user is smelting, flag them for pvp for stealing. If they get ko'd in town while stealing send them to jail for stealing. Time would be dictated by the crime. It would create a gameplay situation for people who like to spec theives.
Just flag the offender for commiting a crime then the player/bounty hunter/possible police force in the city, can stop the offender.
The point is that when you talk about public smelter you're talking about service for the city community.
Maybe I put ingots so that a full plate can be crafter for our city hero, and since I can't wait the needed hours I leave them for someone else to take them and craft what's needed.
That's why we'll have private smelters, otherwise what you say could turn into someone using the smelter and never taking off the ingots, locking it forever, which would be as bad.Of course what you say would turn griefing into a mechanic, but would also break the reason why the said smelter is public instead of private, making it useless anyway.
Maybe a compromise could be a trusted list of players who can take stuff from the smelter without being flagged, and if someone else takes the ingot the he's flagged and it could work as you say.
I suppose that would move smelting to private plots anyway, since noone would be interested in the risk of stuff getting stolen by a passerby.
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@GreatValdus said in Cities, Permissions, Griefing:
(...) if someone else takes the ingot the he's flagged and it could work as you say.
I suppose that would move smelting to private plots anyway, since noone would be interested in the risk of stuff getting stolen by a passerby.I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount of smelted metal that there would be a good amount of people who actually not only create public smelting/tanning stations in cities, but who would put in something to process. Then simply wait for the next 'newbie' to pass by, see the 'free stuff', grab it, be flagged for PvP and 'ganked' by the group who was waiting nearby
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@Logain well obviously a system like that should clearly warn who's not allowed that he will commit theft by taking the ingots from the smelter, it shouldn't be a "free" action.
Or for example, since a player flagged as Good cannot perform theft, here you are, they just can't, if not allowed.
This way, by the way, seing a Neutral player hanging around your working smelter could arise suspicion, make you ask questions about their intentions, and finally resulting in a ban from the city if it turns out to be a thief.
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Ability for major to allocate number of hours per week that certain cathegories of citizens can use the particular infrastructure in the city.
Ability to define cathegories.
Ability to define tax level for those cathegories.
These cathegories dont have to be set per nobility but can be set per groups lile merchant, city employed crafter, local shop crafter, visitor?, city miltary, whatever.
Then majors could set all sort of stuff for groups they created, tax level, allocate hours per week certain group can use certain infrastructure, etc.
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@Gothix that could be a valid way for sure.
The point is understanding what in the devs mind is the point of a public smelter against a private one.
Once that is states, then the system can be tuned to fit that role.
