Posts made by Tuoni

@Xzoviac said in Marketing as important part of early development:

the dev team of fractured is small right?
They probably do all the marketing them selves, and will buy a market team closer to release

They are relying on Old fashioned word of mouth, and dedicated members making these videos for us,

Maybe we can change the direction of this thread from what fractured devs can/should be doing, to what we all can do to help and bring hype to this game

Yes they have a small about ten persons team so the marketing can be challenging. Marketing can be done with low expanses, but it will still need human resources.

One mistake what developers can do with marketing is rely only on others. Even community can be in best case a nice bonus, still nothing sells by its own without effort. That is why marketing plan and marketing progression is crucial to do right.

Best thing what we can do is give useable ideas or use foundation program related stuff to promote Fractured. If someone has ideas what we could do, it would be nice to know about that.

I have considered to start a blog, but it is still under planning. I could script a video, but I do not have any experience of making one.

@OwlsaneGaming said in Marketing as important part of early development:

@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:

you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).

Also never make a huge hype for the game if the release day is not prepared to any kind of situation.

As a bad example of hyped game that got rekt in the release day was Albion Online. They anticipated badly with the huge amount of player that came this day, showing a lot of server issues and bug. They lost a huge amount of players in 1 week and it took 1 year and a half of struggle to grow back a good playerbase.

TLDR creating to much hype of this game but not managing well the release date = massive playerbase leaving the game after 1 week

But what happened in Albion had nothing to do with marketing or hype. It was purely a development mistake to make core changes just before release without enough time to test out things properly. But you are right about the start, it was absolutly horrible.

Marketing your indie game

"When to Begin Marketing Your Game
Before we get into specifics, it is important to dispel the common notion that marketing can only begin after a game is released. As most of you already know, a game draws most of its sales within the first few weeks, and even days, of release. If the proper channels don't already know about your title by the time it's launched, your sales during this critical window are going to suffer.

So, instead of waiting until the eleventh hour, follow this general rule:

Begin your marketing campaign the moment you have something that illustrates the fundamental mechanics and look of your game.
Whether it's one finished level, a mocked up (quality) screenshot using Photoshop, or a small demo that displays a nuance of your game, it is imperative that you start generating hype as soon as there is something—anything—worth showing to the public. From that point forward you should be promoting the progress of your game on a semi-regular basis."

14 Indie game marketing tips

"1. Begin before the beginning
Don’t wait for the game to be released to start marketing it. The earlier you do — the better. Run your social media, reach out to press & influencers, create a website — just make sure to keep all those channels updated. An empty Instagram account will do you no good."

"4. Make your game a movie star
Yes, videos do sell. Yes, it will take time and efforts to create a great video. And yes — you can still do it for free using iMovie or similar tools. If you what to go fancier, you can go for paid solutions and even outsource the whole process. Just make sure your game trailer is short, exciting and tells your game’s story."

@Logain said in Marketing as important part of early development:

@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:

(...)That will only signal that nothing is happening anymore and game will start loose people who backed(...)

Why would they? The people who already backed can play the game themselves during Alpha/Beta. Isn't that better than watching a guy talk about the game in a video?

You make it sound like there is only two options. Either you watch videos or play the game. How about both? In addition, videos' content does not restrict to just talking videos. Those are just one part. On top of that talking is also a really vague notion and does not actually tell much what kind of video we are talking about.

The 9 Do’s and Don’ts of Game Trailers

"your game’s trailer is one of your most powerful marketing assets. Whether it’s for your website’s visitors, who want to get a sense of how the game feels, or more importantly for the press, who will use it to decide whether they want to cover your game or not.

Your game trailer shows what the game is, and it has the power to drive emotion and interest before people get a chance to try out your game. It provides you with an arsenal of visual and audio tools to turn viewers into players."

The 9 Do’s and Don’ts of Game Trailers

Marketing Your Indie Game On A Zero-Dollar Budget

"Step 1: Make a kick-ass trailer to get people hooked.
You will hear this time and time again: the trailer is your best asset to spark people’s interest in your work. It’s the only type of content that can combine beautiful images, fast-paced animation, engaging music and a strong call to action. All in one place. It’s an even stronger tool in that it conveys all the information you want to share with the viewer in 1 to 2 minutes."

Marketing Your Indie Game On A Zero-Dollar Budget

No generic fantasy races like elfs, dwarfs or orcs thank you. And especially if those are not part of the lore, it would just feel contrived solution to add these races in Fractured. I like how Fractured has fresh races like demons, beastmen, abominations, angels and liches. If we will see new races in future, I hope DS continues the line they have chose to take already.

@Meiki said in Racial languages:

@Sindariya A system - like the one in WoW - can be set in place. It would make the job of the team easier and also pretty much make it easy for the players. As you would still see what the player actually wrote as long as you have high skill in the language. It could be even set that with tiers, that without knowledge it changes every word, achieving first tier changes only every second word, second tier only every third word, fourth tier only every couple words randomly between every fifth and every eight word and mastering it would let the message be as it is and allow you to send messages in that language.

Something like this could be interesting especially if guilds will be race locked. Then the initial setting is kind of RvR. I can see how unlocking new levels of languages needs traveling to another planets.

@Sindariya

All the games you mentioned were not supported just for the idea, but for the names and their past bringing that idea to life.

That is why I said idea, concept art and early footage.

Those that pledge early and than come back after 2 or more years mostly will not stay. Often they are disappoinent that the game is not what they think or changed to far from what promised.

You are right something like this will happen, but "often" might be too strong word here.

If they would really need more money, they would set up a cash shop for skins and house/decoration. They would even have asked for more money on kickstarter. I have the impression they are save for the next 2 years. So they need to make money after that.

I guess they do not have enough resources for making anything extra like cash shop atm. Or maybe there is one under development already.. Well I do not know how much DS had funds before kickstarter, but that current amount of funding does not last long for sure.

@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:

@Tuoni

hard to keep hype for 2 years. many gamers have ADD in that they last a month - half a year on a game then move on.

Firstable hype is NOT samething than marketing. And I would like to see some reference for argument that many gamers have ADD.

@Logain said in Marketing as important part of early development:

@Tuoni said in Marketing as important part of early development:

(...)I do not understand your logic here, why on earth to stop marketing and hype there?(...)

Because you often get only a single chance to convince a customer. Once that chance has been burnt, the customer is unlikely to check out your product a second time. If you require the funding from Kickstarter, there is no other choice, but if you are financially stable and can afford to wait till later in development, you can increase the retention rate and thus your over all revenue drastically by delaying first exposure till it is convincing.

So you say its better to collect money from kickstarter and then stop marketing and hype there? That will only signal that nothing is happening anymore and game will start loose people who backed. That is why marketing should goal for steady grow. That will keep current players interested and at the same time you get new backers and followers.

@Roccandil said in Characters Per Account:

@Tuoni

You know, it occurred to me you don't need an alt to check markets in Albion: just strip naked and instantly journey to each city you're interested in and grab intel. Using an alt would be harder, I think.

At that, the easiest way is to partner with someone and examine two markets at once (which I've done).

You do not necassarily need alts, but those will make the checking faster, because you can just sit next to marketplace. Also there are times when you are not near any city with your main character (in guild territory for example), so you want to use alt so you do not need to move. That is why I said "Now those who did merchanting used alts and/or fast traveling.."

@Roccandil said in Characters Per Account:

@Tuoni said in Characters Per Account:

@Roccandil said in Characters Per Account:

@Tuoni

You don't need alts to check the markets in Albion: apparently the game provide an API to the market database, so there are websites you can go to to browse the prices.

Caerleon being the primary city to transport to/from makes sense, since the trip is not risk-free, and again, I know of people making millions doing just that since f2p was introduced.

I've made a decent bit, however, transporting goods just between safe royal cities; those markets aren't flat, either.

Well if there is nowadays API for marketing, then the whole system is even worse than before. Zero sandbox feeling in that.

Caerleon does not make sense and that is why devs finally reacted and the world will or changed already.

I'm not following, really. The market and economy seem quite healthy to me, and engaging. Trying to stifle information flow seems like an impractical idea on the internet; might as well embrace it!

As to Caerleon, the devs now seem very interested in making the other royal cities viable home bases, and Caerleon's unique advantages are dwindling. That seems like a good thing.

Making Caerleon the main hub for everything just before launch without proper testing was a huge mistake. That is why Caerleon was the only city where people settled. That made other cities more or less ghost towns. Devs were warned about this, but they did not listen, but now after almost 2 years they finally understood their mistake why the rework has done.

@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:

@Tuoni
They were hyped for Kickstarter. How much hype do you see now from those games?

Albion Online had actually steady rising hype and I can see much same possibilities with Fractured too. The hype around AoC and Crowfall has fade a bit, but that does not mean players are not striking back in when they finally get the chance. And of course they will go back if they have already invest money for that game.

And yes, the gaming industry has seen some changes and the hype and marketing needs nowadays to start really early, because of those kickstarter campaigns. I do not understand your logic here, why on earth to stop marketing and hype there? Marketing strategy should goal for steady grow if you want to play it smart.

@Sindariya said in Marketing as important part of early development:

Marketing is a double edged sword. Done right it can give you more than you ever expected. Done wrong it can kill you.
Know your market, know your customer, know your product, know your goal. Those are the basics for every marketing strategy. If you have your strategy you need to have a good timing so all your effort is not for nothing.

I can easily agree with you with these 4 main points, but there is something with the content I disagree and I want to discuss a little bit more.

Know your product
The only thing we can sell is the idea at the moment and that will not bring in the mass.
Know your customer
Every game needs player and player want to do what? Play.
Do we have something to play? No.
What will they do? Look for something to play and forget about us.
So why should they pay for something they can't use?

Yes it can bring masses. If people have followed other MMORPGs' kickstarter campaigns and development, there is so much people already backed those games, even there is nothing more than just an idea, concept art and really early footage. Ashes of Creation, Crowfall, Starcitizen and Camelot Unchained are few examples. So we have seen how people will invest money early on even game is coming after several years. Some of the backers will for sure play something else during the development, but they will come back usually in beta state or at least for launch.

Know your goal
Yes we need player, but do we really need them now? What we need now are supporter that will test, give feedback and build up the core of the game the community. We need to create an interest in the game and build up the trust, that the game will be what it is promised.

More backed players at early state of the game means more money for development, so I guess I do not need to say more about that.

I don't see the need for livestreams at the moment, that is something for Beta2 when we can really play 24-7. And yes there could be too much videos. Honestly when watching the ingame videos I thought, that is nothing for me. They walk, walk, walk, kill a bear, walk, walk, walk, kill 2 wolfs, walk, walk, walk, goblin camp. Finally something to see after 15min? Not good. If there is nothing really happening in the first 2min the most stop watching the video or jump forward in the video and perhaps miss the big thing.

I agree with that livestream part, there is not enough content to watch stream particularly long. And no no no.. I did not mean much videos from current A1 content. In future with upcoming test phases you can do a good amount and different kind of videos. Check that Albion Online youtube channel, it looks like somehow what I meant.

Regarding your idea of a trailer, why should the devs do it? Let the players do it. They know why they play the game and what others will hook up. I witnessed once such a contest and was blown away what they were able to do. And those trailers are honest because they are done with actual game play.

Because devs knows what they want to include to those trailers and also in most cases the quality is simply better. However, your video contest idea is actually quite good.

I have personally found almost every game I follow from youtube and in most cases the most attractive vids are the official ones. Those have usually best quality and most importantly 100% truthful.

I was really active tester in Albion Online when it was still under development. It was totally playable in Alpha and Beta, and many people still says that one of the test phases was better than the actual game. And I agree with that. Even we were testing Albion, we also played it like any other game already released. Therefore, if Fractured has the same amount of content in Alpha 2 or Beta 1 what Albion had, then there will be supply for really large audience. So it is important to get that marketing part in better situation what we have seen at the moment. I have critisized a lot of Albion and some of the SBI's solutions, but they did a really good job with the youtube video channel and that bringed to them a lot of new followers and players. Their problem was that they could not keep the playerbase and it crushed soon after the release.

@Jetah said in Marketing as important part of early development:

you never want to hype a game 2 years before release. you start that 6 months before when 99% of the game is settled and wont change (baring some major redesigns).

Never? Like Albion Online, Ashes of Creation or Crowfall did (just mention few)? But I guess you know better than developers of these studios..

@Roccandil said in Characters Per Account:

@Tuoni

You don't need alts to check the markets in Albion: apparently the game provide an API to the market database, so there are websites you can go to to browse the prices.

Caerleon being the primary city to transport to/from makes sense, since the trip is not risk-free, and again, I know of people making millions doing just that since f2p was introduced.

I've made a decent bit, however, transporting goods just between safe royal cities; those markets aren't flat, either.

Well if there is nowadays API for marketing, then the whole system is even worse than before. Zero sandbox feeling in that.

Caerleon does not make sense and that is why devs finally reacted and the world will or changed already.

@Gothix said in (Answered?) Toggle Nudity For player Characters? [ AKA unequipable Undergarments with censor option) ,( NOT OTHER EXPLICT FEATURE REQUEST)]:

New stretch goal:

Extended character customization Level 2 (Nudity)

Reach: 1 million euro.

Go go!

Go go go!

@Specter said in Weekly drawings batch 5 - Week 64/65/66/67:

@Tuoni Everyone who posts something meaningful on the forum in a given week gets an entry into the drawing. At the end of that week, we randomly select a bunch of winners.

Okay thanks for the information. I just was not sure about that random part.