Posts made by Razvan

@Jetah
Yes, but would you risk your pve gear on pvp during the invasion? I wouldn't, unless it's cheap to replace it.

Most likely mdps demon main, and roleplay hermit (house outside city) human alt. Classes are not set in stone tho, as I cannot test them yet.

Anyway, I'm not so much concerned about invasions - if there are too many demons, they will probably fight eachother as well instead of all allying and fighting human. The thing I'm most concerned about is the economy - on the demon planet things will be expensive since it's full loot pvp (and they will probably add a trash-system to help crafters), while on the furries planet things will eventually become dirt cheap. Even if items will somehow be lost in the furries planet (items getting destroyed once they lose durability or whatever system), the mats will still be very cheap because it's safe to gather them.

@asspirin For large scale PvP it's enough to have an aoe magic tree specialised in anti magic if you want to make room for melee characters. For example, a big not-so-fast moving shockwave that silences and cleanses magic effects results in frontline being mandatory for each side.
However, I really I hope Fractured won't be as heavy on aoe spells as Albion.

If the effects are strong enough, people will use them. In fact, I don't know what MMOs you guys played, but the ones I did required a good deal of coordination between players and guilds tried to take advantage of this as much as possible.
Anyway, now that you mention those games, Aspirin, I reckon that Magicka also had coop combos - for example, multiple people shooting a beam results in a stronger one fired on an altered angle. On the other hand, if they make mages so badass, nobody will play archers or melee.

@Logain said in New spell Ideas:

Isn't it a bit early to discuss this though? There's still a lot of functionality missing in the game that has to be finished first before there's any spare amount of resources to dedicated on additions. Feature creep is a very real threat in game development.

Totally. I'm on the same page with you, but I think coop spell combo is a neat idea worthy of being added on the roadmap to be implemented in some patch after release.

Well then, if this system is successful in other games, maybe they should try to implement something similar in a patch after release.

Coop combos is a neat idea and adds a lot to the gameplay.

@Vortech
Could you give some examples of what kind of player-generated quests existed in ECO?

@Yitra
fast travel: If my daily gameplay time is about 3 hours, I'd rather not waste 30min of it on traveling. Teleportation can coexist with travels being risky due to the fact that you can't teleport with items on you.
markets: Half of the game is full loot pvp. If you die, you need to find someone who sells the items you're using which can become quite frustrating until you are rich enough to buy them in bulk. I really see no disadvantages of local marketplaces / auction houses.

@Yitra The problem with removing these features is that the players end up spending a lot of time on boring activities. Traveling is interesting the first time you visit a region, but walking 30min every time you want to farm is not so fun. Same with trading. Besides, there are well thought limitations on these systems - the markets are local and you can't teleport while carrying stuff in your inventory.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

legit couriers take that risk. Every transportation company in the world has a similar risk. the world has insurance which is paid every month by the transportation company. the game wont have that so the courier has to pay it out of pocket. gatherers have that same risk, they can be ganked (fury planet aside) while trying to gather, those raw materials can be refined and used against them at a later date. remember that Fractured isn't a safe space (fury planet aside). and yes, people did this very thing, both perspectives, in eve online.

The economies of real world, Eve and Fractured are not comparable because they're on different scales. The risk involved are also of totally different natures. Besides, even in real world you pick the middleman based on reputation: you'd rather deliver through DHL or some shady guy from the corner of the street?
I know that is risky going outside in a full loot PVP game. I'm not arguing this and I'm also not arguing if the balance of transport orders should lean more towards the couriers or the people employing them, I'm saying that the risks involved in this system would make it even less popular.
What I'm arguing about is the usefulness of this system since at this economy scale most of the playerbase won't use this feature because there are other, better options. In most aspects Fractured will be a lot more like Albion (which can be downloaded for free now) and a lot less like Eve.

About the second paragraph - this is not how people gank in this kind of games. Instead, you go out with a bunch of friends on fast mounts, with high mobility builds and cover a big area. When someone sees a vulnerable target, they announce their position on discord and everyone attacks. This makes transports in high profile areas very risky, unless you do it as a guild or at very odd hours.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

someone mentioned something about a UI, I can't find whether it was you or someone I'm confusing you/them for.

Clearly not me. I don't care about player interaction, I care about the game being released as soon as possible with the basic functionality working correctly.

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@Crowdac
Leaving aside the fact that my whole point is "this system will be used rarely by very few people so it's not worth wasting development time on it - at least not now", your system is a step back to the first scenario. The transported goods will always be of higher value than whatever the merchant pays the courier. If the courier wants to scam the merchant, he can ask a friend to PK him outside of town and not get the payment, but get the contents of the package for a 2min job. Now, the problem is to offer the merchant enough tools to make sure that the courier is reputable. My point is that since it will end up being an obscure feature, instead of taking development time on it, it's better to ignore it completely because the few people who will need items transported via strangers can find reputable couriers on forums (and I linked the Albion forums as an example).

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All in, I think this suggestion is a neat idea, but the two already discussed possible types of quests (fetch materials and transports) won't be used much. Imo, this is the most reasonable suggestion so far: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/9769/player-generated-quests-work-orders/5

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

you dont hurt legit couriers. you want insurance to cover your goods, that's the deposit, you want to pay if they successfully deliver, that's their pay. there's no hurting legit people.

If by deposit you mean the system the agreed sum of money from courier's pocket and if the transport is successful, then he gets the money back. If the transport is unsuccessful, I get the money. In the case of being ganked, on top of losing his gear and not getting paid, he also has to pay you some money. That's a big hole in the pocket. Who wants to be a courier when the risk is so big and the reward not so good?

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

how can the courier be scammed? transporting is a risky business. they need to hire help if they want. the world isn't friendly outside the fury planet.

I set up a transport order at 3.5k silver deposit with a 10k silver reward on successful transport (let's assume 10k is big money). I pack a lot of cheap but heavy stuff to identify the courier easier since they will need a mount specialized in carrying weight and put a good silver reward to make the order look legit. When someone picks up the order, I head out of town and PK them claiming their items, the 3.5k silver and getting back my transport items.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

what's the difference between a ui for contracts and a marketplace? people dont and hate spending time yelling in chat. it's the pure reason why trade/market/etc websites open and people use them. yelling in chat is the worst way to conduct trade.

I mean a marketplace where you can set buy/sell orders and see a history of prices, such as this

I assume we are going to have this in Fractured because it's an important feature in other similar games. Also, if we have this, the kill 10 wolves and bring me whatever they drop player-generated quests are pointless.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

your system is no different than what i talked about. you're still using a UI for the whole thing but made it worse by needing to be in a city so items can be dropped off. i dont want the courier to know what the goods are. it's one reason why our mail system uses boxes and envelopes.

First of all, I said that remote orders shouldn't be a thing. But if they are a thing, then remote chest management can also be a thing.
Second, that's also my point: house/chest management and rights will already be a thing in the game. Why create a new system when you can use something already planned to achieve the same thing?
We use boxes and envelopes for privacy, security and the fact that some objects are easier to transport this way. In game you mostly care about hiding the value of the transported objects, which is not an issue if you pick a reputable courier (the scope both when looking for someone on the forums and putting restrictions on who can pick up your transport order).

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

so a 2k deposit is less than the contents value of 200g?? the payout will be less than the value of the goods but the security deposit is higher than the value of the goods.

I see. If you opt on putting an absurd deposit, you remove the scamers but end up hurting the legit couriers - not only they not get paid and lose their gear in case they get ganked, but you also lose a lot of money. On top of that, you open the situation in which the courier can be scammed.
Leaving aside the fact that looking at similar games it's easy to see why this feature will be scarcely used, no matter how you put it, it's easily exploitable and in no way better than sorting people by their reputation.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

that's great and all but there are people who play for limited secession time, limited weekly time, or at odd times of a day. they need a way to have things happen without being shackled to the game. even with a menu, you can still hollar out to get whatever you want done.

You can do that without this feature if we have a marketplace with buy/trade orders and a chest/bank system with the ability to set privileges.
For example, if I want to move 30ore from town M to town N: I find a courier, go to the chest in town M, create a new tab named "for transport" and place the 30ore in it. I then give the courier the rights to withdraw items from the "for transport" tab. Then I move to the chest in town N where again I create a tab named "for transport" for which I give the courier the rights to deposit items, but not withdraw them. Once this is done, the courier can transport my stuff without ever meeting me in game. And this can be used for various other activities. Let's say you are a high level crafter and X wants items crafted by you in bulk - you go to the chest, create a tab called "crafting order X", give X rights to deposit and withdraw items from that tab. X goes and puts the materials and the payment in the "crafting order X" tab whenever he can. You take the mats and craft the items whenever you can and then put them in "crafting order X" tab. X comes and takes the items. If there's no item quality or crafting focus or other such system, it makes no sense to use a crafter tho.

Do I have to make a "I wish to thank..." speech, or do I humbly accept the points in silence?

PS: Happy new year & thanks for the points!

First of all, if you're in a guild which makes such a radical change without consulting or at least announcing the members in advance, you're probably better off without them.
Other than that, one week is a reasonable amount of time for people focused on this task - and that's if they plan to improve karma (which involves long, tedious PvE). Dropping karma is always a far easier task - get a roaming party going and attack everyone on sight.
And even if the above paragraph doesn't apply to Fractured, they can also increase the time from 1 week to whatever it takes.

I understand that the courier cannot see the contents, but the logic deduction is that the contract value is always less than the value of goods because otherwise the person who put the transport order is losing money. Everything that was said here can be agreed with a person who offers these services on the forums, with the advantage that you can pick who does the transport (if we have chests with tabs and set privileges, you don't even have to meet that person in game), and the disadvantage that it's slightly more work than having a system do it for you.
All in all, economy-wise this game won't be as big as Eve. Even if they add these features, most of them will rarely be used by very few people. Almost all caravans will be guild trade runs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought karma was a number, and alignment was the stat that defined on which planet you live - in other words, they are related, but not the same. For example, if you start as a human (neutral alignment, 0 karma), if you did negative actions that dropped your karma below -10000 let's say, you can do a quest and change your alignment to evil.
If it works how I described above, in the event a guild changes their alignment, all present guild members should get 1 week to also change their alignment or get kicked.

I think it makes more sense to be based on alignment (evil, neutral, good), as long as you can only change it via a quest (I mean, it would suck to get auto-kicked out of a demon guild because you farmed too much).

I see now what you meant about "transport goods between cities without needing to visit them" and how I misunderstood you. I still think this feature is unnecessary because a system of local marketplaces and local chests with ability to set up privileges can simulate just that without the need of being coded by developers: nobody will set up a trade route that it's worth less than the transport, so by default it's more profitable for the courier to have a friend gank him outside of town and split the money instead of doing the delivery. Of course, some people are honest and won't try to scam the patrons, which means that at the very least they can let us filter the good ones from the bad ones by only opening the contract to characters with over x deliveries and/or y% success delivery rate and/or value of successful transported goods divided by value of total transported goods is greater than z. In the end the very same result can be achieved by visiting the forums and picking up a reputable person that offers those services. For example in Albion, a game that is similar to Fractured, you know that this person is trustworthy. Another reason why I think this feature won't be very much used is that, as I said earlier, most guild will do trade runs.

About the second point (placing remote buy/sell orders), I don't really care because I don't plan to trade much, but I think it's unfair for someone who PVEs or ganks to flip the market in the downtime as easily as someone who primarily plans to be a merchant.

In my opinion it would be pretty cool if in the eyes of demons all the humans and animals are seen as generic characters without individual names and vice-versa, but it probably won't happen for the same reason all races speak the same language: the devs want inter-racial guilds.

@Jetah said in Player generated quests (work orders):

there should be knowledge for business and trade. thus allowing a player to place remote orders (similar to Eve Online) within certain ranges. This allows a business player to buy/sell/transport goods between cities without needing to visit them.

No way, no, because remote sell orders and transport would make the trade caravans risk-free, thus pointless. As of buy orders and quick travel, we should be able to teleport naked with nothing in the inventory from one town to another (with the exception of inter-planetary travel, of course, where this restriction doesn't apply).