Best posts made by Phaethonas

@fibs said

None of which matters the slightest bit, because I'll catch up.

On my time, not yours.

Even if that were true, that doesn't make it any less pay2win.

Is it true though? Will you be able to catch up?

You tried to make a point earlier (at another thread I think) which included a graph. Despite the graph being wrong on many levels, it assumed a cap. What cap is that now? As we are talking about knowledge points the cap is about either them, or their usage.

For example, as far as we know there will be no cap at knowledge points. From the little that we know so far, we can assume that there will be a finite, but large, number of knowledge points. We also know though that, these knowledge points will be difficult to be accumulated or even impossible at times! For example, I am a demon and I can't enter an Arboreus dungeon. Inside the Arboreus dungeon though, there are things to discover that give you knowledge points! As such I am immediately locked out from those knowledge points.

So, this means that although a finite number, accumulating knowledge points won't be easy and it may be even impossible to cap. It is more than likely that the addition of new content, even the smallest one, will also add new knowledge points. This means that either capping knowledge points will be impossible (e.g. I am locked out from some, as explained above) or there will be a constant effort to accumulate more, something which will resemble a soft cap. Practically though, there will be no hard cap.

As such, your point that you will "catch up" is moot.

Now, there the ways knowledge points are being used. There will be two ways to use them.

1. At the talent tree

2. At ability learning.

Although the talent tree can be capped at 50, the abilities, practically, won't be able to be capped.

So, once more we see that "catching up" will either be extremely, extremely difficult, if not literally impossible.

And then there is the whole unknown part, of not knowing how much of a boost the VIP membership gives. It is one thing to assume a +10% boost at learning time (e.g.instead of requiring 10 hours you require 9) and it is quite another to generate knowledge points out of thin air. In that case you may end up with gaining +10% Knowledge Points, which means that if a deer gives you 1 KP, you get 1.1 KP. Then you add 9 more animals, and I (the person with no VIP) will have accumulated 10 points (1 per animal), whereas you will have accumulated 1.1x10 = 11 points. Oops, here pops a free KP out of thin air.

How, can you defend something to which you know so little about?

I suppose you can revert that question and ask me how I can attack something to which I know so little about, but I know two things that you completely choose to ignore;

1. Past knowledge at how such systems have been or will be implemented at other games.

2. The fact that the VIP needs to be enticing, otherwise it defeats its purpose.

Gaining 1.1 KPs instead of 1 KP is barely enticing (and despite that, still p2w!), gaining a 10% increase at the time required, probably, not so much. Let alone not in line with how the knowledge system is being described!

Okay. Where's the part where they win?

Oh yes, the argument; "you can't win in an MMO". Heard that before.

Nor do I need to mock you, since you also make a fool of yourself just fine - but I'm still going to do it

The only one who made a fool of him/herself is you, with that graph. Good try, but a failure. Lastly, reverting to ad hominem attacks proves that you have no real arguments.

@prometheus said in Mega Update - Cheaper Packs, Pre-Alpha Keys & More:

@phaethonas said in Mega Update - Cheaper Packs, Pre-Alpha Keys & More:

@Prometheus First of all what "unlimited sources only" means, exactly? And secondly, you still haven't answered if the VIP ticket will be an actual in-game item, that will be possible to be exchanged (see EVE's PLEX) or not.

As for trading, the plan is for VIP to be something you activate for your account, not an item that can be traded.

That would be great. This avoids the RMT + player driven economy = p2w issue.

Some sources of KP are limited, because you can perform the action only once (e.g. discovering a new region, a new creature, etc). VIP doesn't boost them. Others, like studying enchanted items, are unlimited - every time you find an enchanted item, you can study it and gain KP.

As long as you still have limited sources available, you'll be looking for those, since unlimited sources are rare and/or give much fewer points. Unlimited sources matter only once you've run out of limited. At that point, however, your character is likely already dozens of hours old, has unlocked all the 50 talent points and has a good variety of builds available - it can be considered "done" from a "competitive" standpoint.

OK, let me see if I got that straight. Let's suppose there is a rare enchanted item called "Enchanted_Sword_ABX1". I find that sword once and I study it, and that gives me 1 KP. The next time I find the exact same item ("Enchanted_Sword_ABX1") and not a similar item (e.g. "Enchanted_Axe_ABX1" or "Enchanted_Sword_ABG4") I will be able to study it again, and get one (1) more KP. Whereas, after I have gotten 5 KPs because I found/killed a cave_spider, I won't be able to get 5 more KPs after killing/finding anothe cave_spider. Am I getting that right?

Then, a VIP member will get 5 KPs from the cave_spider but 1.1 KP from the Enchanted_Sword_ABX1 (+10% from VIP perk). Correct?

If I am getting this right, and if the echanted items are really rare (and you are not just saying this in order to get out of trouble), then that VIP perk maybe it won't be p2w, or rather it won't be p2w to the degree that it will be game changing.

BUT this brings a question. Why have such a mechanic in the first place? When the developers are making a VIP ticket, they want it to be enticing, in order to sell as many as possible. It makes no sense to make a ticket that won't be enticing, because you want it not to turn p2w. If that is your goal, then don't have a VIP ticket to begin with.

My point is that, in the past developers have started with such mechanics giving a "very small/limited boost, that is not p2w", only to add to that as time went by. So, why should we trust you, that you won't do the same?

Why don't you just try less complicated things like adding a mandatory subscription and instead of being a buy2play game be a sub2play game? Why don't you just have an optional VIP ticket that will give only cosmetic cash shop perks (e.g. the discount and special items you already have announced)? Why are you including things that a) make uncomfortable the players and b) assuming that the VIP perks are not p2w now, you will find yourselves in the uncomfortable position of having people asking for more VIP perks that will be related to the KPs and learning slots? Which of course ultimately will make the game p2w.

And why include the VIP in the first place? As far as I know you haven't explained that, and you certainly haven't explained that at the news articles.

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.

Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.

Yeah, I thought as much!

So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!

As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.

So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.

Lol gw2 is a world vs world for example do not tell silly things about pve and pvp. Wow got pvp too. Eso too.

If you use google you will find more games fully pvp than fully pve ;). Anyway the point was not the pvp or pve but the best/most played mmorpg around (highest player base is there so they have something that the most players want).

most pvpers hate those games, because those games are being made, maintained, designed and updated with pvers in mind.

@vengu said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.

Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.

Yeah, I thought as much!

So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!

As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.

So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.

Other than EVE, which open world PvP game is succesful? Darkfall keeps dying, Mortal Online got a few hundred players left, Albion is dying, WoW is overhauling its PvP servers, etc.

and your point is what? that pvpers don't exist?

Other than EVE, the rest games you mentioned (with the exception of Darkfall which was and is just bad) are being designed for pvers and they have added pvp just to attract pvpers. As those games are designed for pvers though, pvpers are not having fun at them.

So, a game that is designed for pvpers is valid.

If you disagree, then please don't play games that are designed for pvpers and go play a pve oriented game.

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging

So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?

Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.

My main purpose is not to kill pvers. And the moment pvers leave (if that happens, which I doubt), then I will be killing pvpers.

What I did say was that if you chose to be a beastkin, don't expect to leave peacefully ever after. The game has the concept of demon invasions.

As to my preferences? They are not that important as long as I accept the game for what it is. To your own words, you want to force changes to the game.

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging

So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?

Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.

My main purpose is not to kill pvers. And the moment pvers leave (if that happens, which I doubt), then I will be killing pvpers.

What I did say was that if you chose to be a beastkin, don't expect to leave peacefully ever after. The game has the concept of demon invasions.

As to my preferences? They are not that important as long as I accept the game for what it is. To your own words, you want to force changes to the game.

I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.

I am not trying to force anything to anyone.

If a beastkin wants to hide during a demon invasion that is just fine. Does he/she want to log out and log back in when the invasion has stopped? That is fine as well.

Me (a demon) invading the beast planet is not "forcing someone to pvp" and it is not "bullying". Me invading the beast planet is part of the game's gameplay.

If someone doesn't like that concept, then he/she doesn't like this game. As such I would urge that person to reconsider being at this game as well as games like EVE, Dual Universe, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained and others like that. They can go and play a number of other pve centric/oriented games.

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

If someone doesn't like that concept, then he/she doesn't like this game. As such I would urge that person to reconsider being at this game as well as games like EVE, Dual Universe, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained and others like that. They can go and play a number of other pve centric/oriented games.

I could tell you the same. First of all Fractured is not a PvP only oriented game but both! So people will enjoy both style of gameplay. Second there are no great games around for those who does not like gank fests. Wow (bored after 11 yeas), gw2 (sucks), eos (does not look so attractive to me), Diablo(it's just a cop-op) end of the story.

Stop thinking about Fractured as a PvP oriented game. Demons will "invade" Arboreus well you will not allowed to kill people in the most of the planet ;). You will invade and the people will move out from unsafe zones. Easy peasy.

The point is not only the dungeons/raids content. The point is to play and join pvp only when you want without be forced to be engaged h24 7/7. For example if they woul remove full loot I will not care to have open pvp everywhere ;). Full loot is like you in real life that work for 40 years to buy an expensive car and someday a thief steals it.

Well on the one hand you say that the most popular games are WoW, GW2 and ESO, implying all the while that they are "best/better than" and then you say that you like neither.

Well, I don't care about a game's popularity and I like none of the games you mentioned and it doesn't concern me which games you like or not, if any.

What concerns me is for me to find a game that I like playing. And I understand if your attitude would be the same.

So, regardless what you like and what you want, regardless what I like and I want the facts remain.

Fractured will have both pvp and pve but also it won't have exclusive pvp zones and/or exclusive pve zones. The beast planet is not an exclusive pve zone. And you already have said that you want to change that!

That is not gonna happen, or rather it is extremely unlikely that it will happen.

Also, I don't think we know that "Demons [...] will not allowed to kill people in the most of the planet". I am almost certain that something like that hasn't been announced and I sincerely doubt that the devs would make Arboreus for the most part a safe zone as you hope.

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas Fractured is going to be a game for those who like be falgged pvp on full time, and for those who does not like it. We have 3 planes is liek have 3 different servers with 3 different ruleset.

Precisely my point. This is what you are misunderstanding.

This is not like having three different servers with three different kind of rule-sets.

You have to understand that.

The point of one race going to another planet is the simple proof that this is not like having one game with three different servers.

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas no! the point is that going to another planet you will accept that ruleset!

sigh NO!

You are so wrong! Demons will bring their ruleset with them when they will invade the human and beast planets.

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buy

PvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.

Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.

All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.

Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.

So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.

Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.

And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.

When the demon will be having debuffs and the beastkin won't, when both will be able to carry weapons, your definition of ganking won't apply.

As simple as that.

It depends on how big the debuff is going to be. If the evil alignment gives a 10% debuff, it won't matter much at all.
Even a 25% debuff wouldn't matter much for a battle hardened PvP player attacking a defenseless farmer.

Who said anything about a defenseless farmer? Beastkin can carry weapons. If they don't like to pvp at all, even in the context of defending themselves, they can run and hide in the safe zones. And if they don't like that either they can log out for a couple of days, during which demons will be in their planet. If they still don't like that? Then they don't like Fractured's concept.

It is silly to go to a game's forum and ask to make an entirely different game than the one the devs want to make.

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buy

PvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.

Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.

All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.

Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.

So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.

Ganking in my book means killing anyone you know who can not defend him/her-self.
They also mentioned the homes on Arboreus can not be pillaged or raided, so you won't be able to take all my stuff.

And I seen it go wrong in so many games who tried to mix PvE and PvP together in a single world. Pretty much always ended up in the PvP players bullying the PvE players and killing them over and over until the PvE players just stopped playing. Then the PvP players got bored, because they didn't have nice easy targets anymore and an easy way to get resources, so they left too and you have yourself a dead game.
Would be a shame to see that happen to this game, and reading comments from the PvP players, I fear it's exactly what is going to happen unless the developers put some proper defenses in the game for the PvE players.

When the demon will be having debuffs and the beastkin won't, when both will be able to carry weapons, your definition of ganking won't apply.

As simple as that.

It depends on how big the debuff is going to be. If the evil alignment gives a 10% debuff, it won't matter much at all.
Even a 25% debuff wouldn't matter much for a battle hardened PvP player attacking a defenseless farmer.

Who said anything about a defenseless farmer? Beastkin can carry weapons. If they don't like to pvp at all, even in the context of defending themselves, they can run and hide in the safe zones. And if they don't like that either they can log out for a couple of days, during which demons will be in their planet. If they still don't like that? Then they don't like Fractured's concept.

It is silly to go to a game's forum and ask to make an entirely different game than the one the devs want to make.

Defenseless farmer as in a PvE player with the focus skill for his farming and gathering etc. vs a battle hardened PvP player who has full focus on skills to kill other people.
That's like a 12 year old girl with a lollipop fighting Bruce Lee. Not even close to being a fair match.

The best way to describe a PvE player in general is to compare it with an introvert. Most of the time we just want to be by ourselves and do our things without interacting with anyone. But at times we enjoy engaging with others for dungeons or maybe even PvP.
Of course, this doesn't count for everyone, but it sure describes me as a player.

I will say for Nth time;

1. not all pve players are care bears.

2. PvE players will be able to have weapons/armor. That, alongside the fact that the demon/evil human will have a ton of debuffs, will close part of the gap between the two. Maybe even the pve player will have an advantage!

3. IF the PvE player doesn't want to fight, he/she can run and/or hide.

4. Fractured will be an open world game. As far as we know there won't be instanced pve, let alone instanced pvp.

As such, I don't understand what people are doing here when they disagree with core concepts/features of the game.

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

So, have the devs said that all buildings, everywhere at Arboreus are indestructible? Bring proof of that. Not that I would mind that much, as I could still come to Arboreus, kill you, kill your wife, kill your children, steal your wheat, and any and all other resource you had so much trouble to gather/make, kill and eat all your chickens and spare only your cats.

So much hatred vs beast I really hope they will protect beasts. Btw I'll be on Syndesia.

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

To your own admission, you don't like the game

I have nerver said that! I only don like the full pvp everywhere

I don't hate beastkin, I cannot hate something that is imaginary. That said, I do not like your attitude.

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

That said, I do not like your attitude.

Same. I don't like people that enjoy harassing in game the poor care bears.

I am not harassing anyone though and this game is not for the care bears.

ganking = harassment for some players

What these players call "ganking" and "harassment" needs to be understood that is standard open world pvp gaming.

If you don't like a game that will have open world pvp, then go play another game. The devs are making an open world game, which goes as far as not having instanced dungeons. And the devs are making a game that will include pvp, to the extent of having "demon invasions". These are core features of the game and won't change any time soon.

Demons invading Arboreus? It is here to stay!

Planets with different resources? It is here to stay!

Open world? It is here to stay!

Alignment mechanic? It is here to stay!

Each planet being race specific? It is here to stay!

How these will be implemented (for example how long an eclipse will last, if Arboreus will be eclipsed or not, what will be the difference at the resources, how the Karma/Justice system will work at the human planet etc) is something that will determined and will probably change throughout the game's lifetime.

But core features? They are here to stay!

So, if you are a care bear that want nothing to do with pvp? This is not a game for you. This game will have both open world pvp and pve. And this means that if I find you chopping wood at the forest, I will kill you. And that will be a feature.