Lootable Corpse?
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However if you just passed by unconscious person (who hasn't been robbed, but merely assaulted) and steal from him, he can not know it was you because he was unconscious at the time.
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@Pwnstar said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Tuoni said in Lootable Corpse?:
- In human planet you can be flagged as thief when looting corpses.
But a corpse means they are dead. How can you steal from the dead?
Yeah kind of true, but because this is a game and the character is resurrected somewhere else, he still owns those stuff, and maybe can even try to get back to his belongings, depends of the case ofc.
And Jetah makes a great point. How would authorities know who stole what if there are no witnesses?
If we think of this realistically, only if someone else recognize the stuff. However, if we take this road, then won't be much reason to have murder and thief system at first place if in almost every case all witnesses are killed.
What about karma?Should we not get any karma hit if we manage to kill all who witnessed the kills?So imo when setting PvP rules for Syndesia the realistic aspect should give less value.EDIT: Lets forget that karma comment, it is related for gods and this will only lead to existance of gods discussion.
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@Gothix said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
that should only happen if there's a witness!
Tbh, if he is only unconscious he can report you himself later on.
If you were the one who made him unconscious, and he knows it.For murder though, witness would make more sense.
and what proof that the person that hit them took their goods? what if someone else strolled along and took the items??
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@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Gothix said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
that should only happen if there's a witness!
Tbh, if he is only unconscious he can report you himself later on.
If you were the one who made him unconscious, and he knows it.For murder though, witness would make more sense.
and what proof that the person that hit them took their goods? what if someone else strolled along and took the items??
Maybe he will be flagged as a criminal then? Assaulting someone is a crime too..
Generally thinking, even someone witnesses a thievery or a murder, what proofs that guy actually has? Word against word? Maybe our characters can just lie if word is enough?
My point is, that maybe we are trying to think this whole flag matter too much from real life point of view.
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i'm trying to spin the ideals to favor my point of view! theft without a witness means it wasn't theft. a knockout could mean i found a fly on the head of someone and tried to kill the fly. i couldn't help it if the person had less constitution than the fly..
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@Jetah Yeah I can see your pov, and as much as I would like to see all of this too from real life perspective, It is starting to push the whole flagging system to weird direction. It is totally fine to have a rules in games without need to rationale everything with RL argument.
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@Tuoni said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah Yeah I can see your pov, and as much as I would like to see all of this too from real life perspective, It is starting to push the whole flagging system to weird direction. It is totally fine to have a rules in games without need to rationale everything with RL argument.
it wont be RL association at all. the gods are the ones to let the others know even if the player is killed.
i'd like a system where i can kill someone and take their stuff and not get any negative karma for it but i know it wont happen and as a demon it wouldn't be a bad thing either.
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@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Tuoni said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah Yeah I can see your pov, and as much as I would like to see all of this too from real life perspective, It is starting to push the whole flagging system to weird direction. It is totally fine to have a rules in games without need to rationale everything with RL argument.
it wont be RL association at all. the gods are the ones to let the others know even if the player is killed.
i'd like a system where i can kill someone and take their stuff and not get any negative karma for it but i know it wont happen and as a demon it wouldn't be a bad thing either.
Yes, karma and alignment are related for the gods, but thievery and murdering are more like judgements and rules set by humans. There is no reason to go further with the real life argument and think every detail of the flagging system from that aspect. Otherwise we could use RL in everything and end up to have a pretty shit system and game with permanent deaths and life time sentences for example.
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@Tuoni said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Tuoni said in Lootable Corpse?:
@Jetah Yeah I can see your pov, and as much as I would like to see all of this too from real life perspective, It is starting to push the whole flagging system to weird direction. It is totally fine to have a rules in games without need to rationale everything with RL argument.
it wont be RL association at all. the gods are the ones to let the others know even if the player is killed.
i'd like a system where i can kill someone and take their stuff and not get any negative karma for it but i know it wont happen and as a demon it wouldn't be a bad thing either.
Yes, karma and alignment are related for the gods, but thievery and murdering are more like judgements and rules set by humans. There is no reason to go further with the real life argument and think every detail of the flagging system from that aspect. Otherwise we could use RL in everything and end up to have a pretty shit system and game with permanent deaths and life time sentences for example.
but we're talking about theft, not a hardcore-no-respawn-system. i just like the idea of theft happening but without witnesses there's no proof who did it. that could open up a profession to find thieves.
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@Jetah Then play Skyrim
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The whole setup of Fractured, even as it is already, the murderer and thief flags are pretty important. As a beastman, it would be very highly frowned upon. Probably as humans as well. As a demon, on the demon planet, people probably wont care, coz that is the setup of the world. How bad they are is all based on the context to where you are.
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What I want to know though... Is there going to be a penalty if someone else attacks us first (them being with or without a murderer flag), and we defend ourselves and win, knocking them out and possibly accidentally killing them in the process?
Coz, like... it was self defence XD
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@Xzait said in Lootable Corpse?:
What I want to know though... Is there going to be a penalty if someone else attacks us first (them being with or without a murderer flag), and we defend ourselves and win, knocking them out and possibly accidentally killing them in the process?
Coz, like... it was self defence XD
If you have a good alignment you will be able to attack only the ones with evil karma (Good and Neutral are considered invalid targets as if members of the same party). If a neutral player attacks you, he will become "aggressive" and you can defend yourself without any consequences.
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ArcheAge had "evidence spots" left on the ground after assault / murder, and to flag someone you actually had to run back to that location and click on evidence on the ground, which would report him.
Evidence had some expiration timer as well, so if you didn't bother running back, the guy who assaulted you might have gone free.
Also anyone else might have clicked evidence if he passed by to report the assaulter.
This evidence system had only one flaw... if mass PvP then ground was completely spammed with clickable blood stains on the ground and it all looked like complete mess.
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@Jetah said in Lootable Corpse?:
i'm trying to spin the ideals to favor my point of view! theft without a witness means it wasn't theft. a knockout could mean i found a fly on the head of someone and tried to kill the fly. i couldn't help it if the person had less constitution than the fly..
That brings up the whole argument of the tree falling in the woods making sound. However, I think any lawyer will tell you even if you weren't caught stealing it is still stealing, real life or not. The victim is going to consider it stealing for sure.
How are you supposed to "find" thieves also? That's very vague. How would you institute that mechanic? Characters are not logged in 24/7. Also what will happen when you do find them on the mere chance that they are logged in at the same time as you? What's the point? What will happen to them?
To me it just sounds like someone trying to find a loophole to thwart the flagging system and get away with griefing.
