Dual Wield / Fist Weapons
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@Farlander I agree, it makes sense, that weapons have different attack speeds. If a specific weapon is slower it most likely will do more damage or have other benefits. Halberd was a great example, it has slow attack speed, it is hard to parry with it, but it has long reach and it will do a massive amount of damage.
At the end this all comes to balancing, where 2-h weapon and 2x 1-h weapon (at the same level) should do about same amount of dps. There can of course be some differencies between weapons, depending what else they will bring on the table on top of the damage.
1-h weapon + shield should ofc do less damage, but get more protection in same relation. Usually 1h weapon does about 50% to 100% less damage than 2-h weapon for example. Depending of course the amount of protective benefits.
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It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
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Yeah, probably different weapons will give different parry chance bonus.
Parry chance could depend on your characters knowledge (if you trained some base passive skills connected with it) and then different weapons could add different amount of parry chance.
Dagger could add very slight parry chance, while sword would add more, for example.
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@asspirin said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@deusex2 If blocks will be activable "skillshots" aka aimable blocks (devs are not sure about implementing this, but who knows), then every glass canon will use this as a method of absolute defense - at least against dmg spikes from assassin specs (I sure would).
True, but on the other hand, if the shield does not provides enough defense, then forgoing the shield in favor of more damage is a better option.
All of it is a speculation, since the whole game is a work in progress, but shield vs off-hand weapon is a tricky balance.
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If someone is tanking for a group all defense is a good option. I'm not sure how many group mechanics have been built into the game. Skills like taunt are very important to a tank. If you can't hold the aggro then you are doing much protection.
I like the idea of a skill tree allowing options through skills that you can only get from training them up. It specializes your character and sets you apart from the masses.
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@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
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@Tuoni It counts with averages, so it´s the same, just 60 times bigger, so theres no need for things like "attacks per minute".
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@asspirin said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni It counts with averages, so it´s the same, just 60 times bigger, so theres no need for things like "attacks per minute".
Daaaa... thanks for this clarification.
DPS is clearly not shown in minutes, because it is less informative to players than shown in seconds.
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@Tuoni Hoops, should have send it to Mr. Jetah, sry
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@asspirin said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni Hoops, should have send it to Mr. Jetah, sry
Yeah, I got a little bit confused that was this really pointed to me or not.
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In Albion Online the developers dropped the idea of mixing freely dual wield weapons, because the balancing was getting a nightmare. However, in Albion there is abilities bound to gear so that is the main reason why it was getting too hard for balancing pov. In Fractured if there will be only stats in gear, I guess that is not so hard to eventually get in balance. This can ofc be a challenge, but still something totally doable.
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@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.
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@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.
Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.
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@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.
Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.
the weapon damage is presented per attack. the addons represent it in dps but in raids there's a few. one is dps. the other is dps averaged over the fight. again a burst class/spec will see very high initial dps but it'll lower until the next burst can happen.
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@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.
Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.
the weapon damage is presented per attack. the addons represent it in dps but in raids there's a few. one is dps. the other is dps averaged over the fight. again a burst class/spec will see very high initial dps but it'll lower until the next burst can happen.
Firstable leave classes, addons, raids and other unrelevant things out of the discussion. We are talking about weapons and stats in those.
In WoW for example, if you check a weapon's tooltip, you can find damage (range), (attack) speed and DPS. That DPS is there to show players what is the avarage damage so it is easy to compare different weapons between each other, or otherwise people should everytime try to calculate the effectiveness by themselfs. In addition, DPS helps a lot when devs are doing weapon balancing, because with DPS you get the average result what actually matters.
You can use Damage / minute in your own games, but lets use DPS in the real ones.
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@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.
Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.
Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.
min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.
Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.
the weapon damage is presented per attack. the addons represent it in dps but in raids there's a few. one is dps. the other is dps averaged over the fight. again a burst class/spec will see very high initial dps but it'll lower until the next burst can happen.
Firstable leave classes, addons, raids and other unrelevant things out of the discussion. We are talking about weapons and stats in those.
the game doesn't display any dps at all only total damage per attack. someone without a dps meter would never know what their dps is.
In WoW for example, if you check a weapon's tooltip, you can find damage (range), (attack) speed and DPS.
just looked at my DKs weapon and there's no mention of DPS on the tooltip. only a damage range, speed, and stats. now the rest of your statement is irrelevant.
also those games that list dps on a weapon usually only do so for the weapon itself, not for total ability dps in a rotation. (see diablo 3 for examples) In D3 you can have a weapon with a listed dps of 3000 but the character can do billions of dps.
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@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:
@Jetah
some picturesand do you think your character does 53.95 dps with skills with that weapon? again that weapon dps is just the dps the weapon does, no other skills. (totally overlooked it when i checked but that's just the weapons' damage per second, not the characters dps with rotations)
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@Jetah And thats what we were talking about whole time - whether 2H dps (weapon alone) is the same as dual weapons dps (weapons alone). Of course with skills it will be different, because some skills will probably not work with 2H, some with dual weapons. Also play style is totally different, it couldn´t be measured in anything per anything.
Is 2H viable? Yes. Is DW viable? Yes. That´s all.
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Total player DPS (or DPM if you like) will depend not only on weapon DPS but on his playing skills as well. How well can he design and perform various skill rotations, how well can he move and "shoot" at same time, and other factors.
Things you can observe and compare separately are:
- weapons DPS
- particular abilitys DPS
Players DPS is beyond discussion here because it depends on great many things.
