I want to get excited but...
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@kellewic none asked to get Tartaros a pve planet neither Syndesia. We are fine with the design but we need o test it and see how it will work effectivly. I see more PvP players arguing around rather than PvErs after the last spotlight.
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@Vengu look at this:
@gothix said in May 5th Q&A Livestream - List Your Questions!:
You mentioned there are zones on Arboreus only good aligned players can enter. Can a good alligned player that is already in such "good zone" switch his alignment to evil inside there and then attack other players there?
Nope. They never said only good alignments can enter. They said that evil will get shotted. It's also not possible to switch alignment as you wish like active pvp on/off. Alignment is a progress system but if you attack/loot/kill neutral/good you will be automatically flagged as evil. So you will get stomped before have the time to kill someone. They said that's insta stomp.
Anyway I really don't get why players want to pvp in safe areas. You have many places where enjoy PvP so you should stop try to find a way to ruoin others gametime. I really hate that players attitude It's a good way to ruin games.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@Vengu look at this:
@gothix said in May 5th Q&A Livestream - List Your Questions!:
You mentioned there are zones on Arboreus only good aligned players can enter. Can a good alligned player that is already in such "good zone" switch his alignment to evil inside there and then attack other players there?
Nope. They never said only good alignments can enter. They said that evil will get shotted. It's also not possible to switch alignment as you wish like active pvp on/off. Alignment is a progress system but if you attack/loot/kill neutral/good you will be automatically flagged as evil. So you will get stomped before have the time to kill someone. They said that's insta stomp.
I think you mean "They said only good alignments can enter".
Anyway I really don't get why players want to pvp in safe areas. You have many places where enjoy PvP so you should stop try to find a way to ruoin others gametime. I really hate that players attitude It's a good way to ruin games.
Because they are griefers. 2 out of 3 planets are 100% PvP, yet all they want is access to the safe zones on Arboreus. These players want to play Fractured for the sole purpose of ganking PvE players. The developers work hard to create PvP content like city sieges, Guild vs Guild battles over asteroids, etc, but a lot of the PvP players on this forum don't seem to care about that content at all. Then they have the guts to claim we're trying to turn Fractured in a PvE game while in reality they are the ones trying to turn Fractured into something it isn't.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@Vengu look at this:
@gothix said in May 5th Q&A Livestream - List Your Questions!:
You mentioned there are zones on Arboreus only good aligned players can enter. Can a good alligned player that is already in such "good zone" switch his alignment to evil inside there and then attack other players there?
It's also not possible to switch alignment as you wish like active pvp on/off. Alignment is a progress system but if you attack/loot/kill neutral/good you will be automatically flagged as evil. So you will get stomped before have the time to kill someone. They said that's insta stomp.
You can switch alignment at the resting phase. There are the karma changes which will restrict which alignment you can choose at the resting phase. I think that's why the question came up since Spotlight #6 says if you're Good "all three options are open" (Good, Neutral, Evil). Will a Good Beastmen player that is Good that switches to Evil during the resting phase be kicked from the Good only area (or die)? If so, where would they respawn?
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@kellewic Beastmen cannot change their good alignment to anything else while on Arboreus.
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@specter said in I want to get excited but...:
@kellewic Beastmen cannot change their good alignment to anything else while on Arboreus.
Ah, yeah. I see it in the Spotlight - that's why I try to read them a few times; and still miss things
I wonder what happens to a Good Human there since the restriction is for Beastmen only - hopefully will get that answer today.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas you have some problem with understanding. I have never asked to replace open world pvp with instanced pvp I only asked to give us also objective pvp aka capture the flag and so on cause players like me does not care to go around in an open world arena for some FFA.
It is you, who has a problem of understanding.
The moment you add instances (aka arenas), even without removing the open world part, you have turned Fractured into something that the devs don't intend at making. The game has been turned into a theme park instead of a sandbox. The devs want to;
innovate the world of Sandbox MMOs by opening it up to audiences that have been cut off from what we believe is the most exciting online game genre out there - and one with exceptional growth perspectives, too.
Is this so damn hard for you to understand?
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@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
One group isnt happy with fighting each other and desire to involves those who dont and people feel as those others are going out of their way to make sure they wont enjoy a game they would otherwise have.
In that case, Fractured is not designed for these players. There are games designed exclusively for pvers, like Saga of Lucimia. Pantheon will also feature a very strong pve centric gameplay, with most servers being pve servers and maybe (just maybe) pvp servers later on.
Each planet at Fractured is not a pvp/pve/pvx server. The game revolves around the concept of different economies (at each planet) and the necessity of moving from planet to planet for economy/financial reasons. As such, pvers should accept that they will come in contact with pvpers and that the latter may kill them. This rules out the care-bear pvers. Similarly, in order not to discourage other pvers (non care-bear pvers), a number of obstacles will (and should) be applied, which will stop pvpers from "griefing". As such, whether you want to call them griefers, gankers or otherwise, these extreme pvpers should also not be catered.
I will say for Nth time; The moment the devs decided these two grous to co-exist, they have to take measures in order for extreme pvpers (aka gankers) and extreme pvers (aka care bears), not to be catered. If either will get catered, then the game will collapse, because of a number of imbalances, primarily among them, those related with the economy of the game.
Another route the devs can take is to make each planet self-sufficient with self-sustainable economy. This though changes their already announced plans. In that case, care-bears would pose no problem at Arboreus. But so far, we know that this won't be the case. As things are today, we know that the economy of each planet will not be self-sustainable. So, you can't deny access to arboreus to the demons, just because care-bears are afraid. That will lead to a problem at the game's economy.
It is that simple.
Start looking beyond what you want, and the gameplay you want, and start seeing the whole picture. If you do, you will understand that if you have planets with economies that are non-self-sustainable, then you need the travelling mechanic. Imposing restrictions that will make travelling impractical, will create serious problems.
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@phaethonas Dont get me wrong, I've stated various times that I'm happy that there is PvP. I wont run from it, I'd fight especially if I'm at an advantage and someone tries to take my shit lol. I'm just trying to point out the 'other sides worry'.
Granted, I agree, if the planets are self sustaining then you need to allow mechanics for travel, but it also doesnt mean you need to allow PvP everywhere at all times. You could have a section of Arboreus there materials and the like are farmable that everyone can go (say 10-20% of the planet) but the rest of the world is restricted to beastmen. Not saying this is the perfect answer but there are ways round it so that materials can still be gained with everyone in mind, if that is the argument PvPer's are saying. Then everyone should be happy, right?
But I'm going to assume thats not the case lol. Therein is where the truth lies.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
Anyway I really don't get why players want to pvp in safe areas. You have many places where enjoy PvP so you should stop try to find a way to ruoin others gametime.
At least for me, I think it's a little unfair that half a planet is impossible to access when good and neutral players have unlimited access to all planets. I think the safe zones on Arboreus should have much harsher penalties, something like 80% stat nerf, you only get 5 mins before you have to leave the safe zone, but you can return (like going up for air while diving), and good players can't be executed (only knocked unconscious). That way demons still have access but 1 beastman should be able to take on 5 demons in safe zones and even if they die they're not going to lose everything.
I just really don't like the idea of such a hard restriction in a game that's otherwise extremely open, and, like Phaethonas points out, it could lead to an imbalanced economy.
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@vengu no all can enter but if they enter will be shotted
that's what I got.
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@target said in I want to get excited but...:
@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
Anyway I really don't get why players want to pvp in safe areas. You have many places where enjoy PvP so you should stop try to find a way to ruoin others gametime.
At least for me, I think it's a little unfair that half a planet is impossible to access when good and neutral players have unlimited access to all planets. I think the safe zones on Arboreus should have much harsher penalties, something like 80% stat nerf, you only get 5 mins before you have to leave the safe zone, but you can return (like going up for air while diving), and good players can't be executed (only knocked unconscious). That way demons still have access but 1 beastman should be able to take on 5 demons in safe zones and even if they die they're not going to lose everything.
I just really don't like the idea of such a hard restriction in a game that's otherwise extremely open, and, like Phaethonas points out, it could lead to an imbalanced economy.
You may find it unfair but when I suggested to make safezons with pvp on/off flag system where flagged pvp can kill only flagged every fuckying PvPer argued that so enjoy the oneshot restrinction.
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@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas Dont get me wrong, I've stated various times that I'm happy that there is PvP. I wont run from it, I'd fight especially if I'm at an advantage and someone tries to take my shit lol. I'm just trying to point out the 'other sides worry'.
Granted, I agree, if the planets are self sustaining then you need to allow mechanics for travel, but it also doesnt mean you need to allow PvP everywhere at all times. You could have a section of Arboreus there materials and the like are farmable that everyone can go (say 10-20% of the planet) but the rest of the world is restricted to beastmen. Not saying this is the perfect answer but there are ways round it so that materials can still be gained with everyone in mind, if that is the argument PvPer's are saying. Then everyone should be happy, right?
But I'm going to assume thats not the case lol. Therein is where the truth lies.
Define "the other side" and their "worries". Are we talking about care-bears? Then, I am sorry, but I don't care. And I don't care because as long as each planet does not have self-sustainable economy, they are/will be part of the problem. As part of the problem will be the gankers as well.
It is very simple actually. Do you want to make a game with some sort of pvp and pve mix? Extreme groups from both sides should not be included.
Now, if we are talking about non-care-bear pvers, then these can accept that occasionally they will die by evil humans and/or demons. They will have their safe zones to run into, the dungeons and raids will be there as well, but a substantial amount of arboreus, where materials will be found, will be "freely" accessible to demons and evil humans. And by "freely" I don't mean completely freely of course, but that practically it will be possible for a demon to go to Arboreus, farm for a couple of hours, get back to Tartaros and introduce the Arboreus materials into the Tartaros market. This, eventually, will reduce the presence of the demons at Arboreus.
If you want to go into further details, I'd suggest making it difficult going at Arboreus, if you are evil aligned, than staying at Arboreus. You should have a number of debuffs that will weaken you, which will discourage fighting and will encourage farming, exploring etc, but you should not have a timer to work against.
This way, only a handful of evil aligned players will be at Arboreus at all times, because only a few will have the dedication to work through the initial, difficult stage. If you move the difficulty to later stages, people will just come wave after wave. If you make it impossible, the game will collapse.
You need demons to go to Arboreus, farm, gather materials and bring back those to Tartaros. Then, I can find these materials at the market, and I won't come to Arboreus.
And you can add another mechanic. Assuming that I am evil aligned 20, Arboreus can have a limit of "evil alignment". Let's say that this is 2000. Assuming that the average of evil aligned for each person is 20, then we can see that only 100 evil aligned persons can be at Arboreus at all times. If I want to go, I won't be allowed (because; lore reasons) and I will be put into a queue.
But in order for this to work, I will say again, I will have to be able to farm in a way that will allow significant amount of Arboreus materials to be introduced to the Tartaros market.
There are many ways, to find this balance, and unfortunately the devs heard the most extreme care-bears and introduced the worst of mechanics; the timer.
As it stands now, practically, each race brings their ruleset with them when travelling to another planet. I'd rather have each planet having its ruleset, regardless the race. So at Tartaros, humans will be able to FFA pvp, without worrying about their karma/justice system, the karma/justice system will be applied at the human planet for all three races and at Arboreus everyone will be unable to fight.
tones of grain, which he/she can introduce to Tartaros.There are so many ways, literally. With the system as it is now or with the system/mechanics changed somewhat, and the devs chose the worst possible scenario.
The only thing that makes me think that the game won't fail, is that Prometheus has said explicitly that none of these mechanics are set in stone. As such they can change, and how they will change it will be determined at Alpha. Hopefully at that time, they (the devs) will realize their mistake.
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@phaethonas I guess the last option would keep most happy with no fighting being allowed means the care bears would be happy. Personally I wouldnt like there to be no PvP at all, but it would be the easiest solution to having the most people happy. Or have 20% where demons can roam and there is pvp there but full of mats so that demons can collect them.
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@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas I guess the last option would keep most happy with no fighting being allowed means the care bears would be happy. Personally I wouldnt like there to be no PvP at all, but it would be the easiest solution to having the most people happy. Or have 20% where demons can roam and there is pvp there but full of mats so that demons can collect them.
That option is the easiest solution, but perhaps not the best solution, and quite frankly it is an unlikely solution, as the devs have designed a number of systems that should just be scrapped. That would require a significant redesign of the game, which is unlikely to happen.
What is not a solution though, is the current model.
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@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas I guess the last option would keep most happy with no fighting being allowed means the care bears would be happy. Personally I wouldnt like there to be no PvP at all, but it would be the easiest solution to having the most people happy. Or have 20% where demons can roam and there is pvp there but full of mats so that demons can collect them.
That option is the easiest solution, but perhaps not the best solution, and quite frankly it is an unlikely solution, as the devs have designed a number of systems that should just be scrapped. That would require a significant redesign of the game, which is unlikely to happen.
What is not a solution though, is the current model.
You have no solutions for carebears so there is not much point to talk.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas I guess the last option would keep most happy with no fighting being allowed means the care bears would be happy. Personally I wouldnt like there to be no PvP at all, but it would be the easiest solution to having the most people happy. Or have 20% where demons can roam and there is pvp there but full of mats so that demons can collect them.
That option is the easiest solution, but perhaps not the best solution, and quite frankly it is an unlikely solution, as the devs have designed a number of systems that should just be scrapped. That would require a significant redesign of the game, which is unlikely to happen.
What is not a solution though, is the current model.
You have no solutions for carebears so there is not much point to talk.
You have no solutions for gankers either. So what?
How many times must I say the same thing? It is like talking to a wall.
Gankers and care-bears should not be catered at Fractured, should not be included into the solution.
You can't make a game that can please everyone. In order to please as many as possible, you have to compromise. Gankers and care-bears, are extreme groups that won't compromise, by definition, as such are cancerous communities, for a game like Fractured, that without the said compromise will fail.
Gankers and care-bears should look, find and play a pure pvp and pve game, respectively.
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@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
You have no solutions for gankers either. So what?
You are joking or you can not get things. Gankers got their spots already Tartaros is purely for gankers. And you should stop say stupid things. Consider that thegame is not fair forgood player cause evil and flagged people can enter cities and that should not happen. Npc should attack and haunt down on Syndesia and Arboreus so I think you all got more than what was needed. If you just care about ganking you can go play Albion that a purely gank fest game.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
You have no solutions for gankers either. So what?
You are joking or you can not get things. Gankers got their spots already Tartaros is purely for gankers. And you should stop say stupid things. Consider that thegame is not fair forgood player cause evil and flagged people can enter cities and that should not happen. Npc should attack and haunt down on Syndesia and Arboreus so I think you all got more than what was needed. If you just care about ganking you can go play Albion that a purely gank fest game.
Gankers won't have a place at Tartaros. As I have said before, gankers want easy pickings/killings, and Tartaros will be full of competitive players. Add how "leveling" will work at Fractured (so a high level player can't just easily kill a low/er level player), and the fact that the "nests" will be no pvp zone, and you can understand that there will be no "easy killings/pickings" at Tartaros. As such, gankers will not get catered, as they should not.
Tartaros, the Demon planet, is the land for all of you hardcore MMO players who want to enjoy competition at its finest. PvP is strictly Free-For-All, aside from the Nests where new Demons are born, and no punishment or limitation is imposed on Evil characters and criminals like Thieves and Murderers.
Apparently you confuse, or you want to confuse, gankers with competitive/hardcore pvp players, which do not seek easy pickings, but rather want challenges. Tartaros will be their proving ground.
As such, and for reasons I have explicitly explained in detail; a) demons should not be (practically) banned from Arboreus, as long as each planet's economy is not self-sustainable and b) care-bears should not be catered either.
Care-bears and gankers will be toxic for a game like Fractured.
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@phaethonas gankers should not play if they are low and just want easy kills. So the answer is: no games for them.
