If you make blueprints not permanent i fcking quit this game !
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Rumors are they gone make blueprints not permanent.
If you think i'm gone farm a bleuprint for every fking item over and over to craft your nuts !!
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@DraxOakstaff Just to clarify, you mean Recipes, Blueprints are for Crafting Buildings and Wagons and stuff.
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there has been talk about possibly making Recipes limited use, only because right now, at a certain point in the game, Recipes lose any value, which is not good for such a rare drop, so they are trying to keep them relevent, but I do agree that limited use doesn't make sense for them. Alternate uses would probably be better.
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@GamerSeuss Just allow us to throw recipes into a building pot portal or what ever and get higher tier enchanting mats atm these mats are hell to get and having other ways to get them would be a good thing imo
I also recommend using the same building or what not to throw 10 of the same enchanting mats in + 50g or something and get 10 random enchanting mats with the same tier level so abundant enchanting mats have a use to try and hit the rare ones aswell as adding a gold sink to the game. (GW2 mystic forge for example was added to remove abundant mats to get other items)
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I'm also opposed to making recipes temp. That said
Recipes don't lose all value until every single person in the game has every single one. Whether you have designated crafters for a guild or not, someone always wants to do their gear anyway.
In addition, all we would really have to do is hold on to duplicates instead of selling. Unless they were to somehow code in a lesser drop chance for a recipe already learned. Which, lets be real, they can't even code the same bugs to stop happening. i don't think we are in any danger of that happening.
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We already had a couple of threads on this matter.
I proposed for them to have limited uses or to remove them from the game. Not doing one of the two has no meaning.I would also be ok with having an alternative use for them. Just as long as they don't become trash loot in the next month.
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@spoletta I proposed making them a reagent as well, which gives them an alternate use, AND/OR making them a building block for Tier 3 Recipes, either requiring so many t2 recipes to craft a tier 3 recipe, or making them part of t3 recipes themselves, like how t2 might require a Will Stone, Tier 3 might require other reagents, AND a t2 Recipe. Finally, you can make them something required to be sacrificed at a legendary altar that isn't a guaranteed drop after the battle.
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Would support making them needed to unlock the t3 recipe, provided the t3 was perm
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I'm not sure if making crafting recipes temporary is a great idea. With the limited durability already in game, you are going to just push people to only use Tier 1 items as the grind to level up durability and how quickly you wear out gear is already starting to be an issue. If you want to make some changes, possibly consume Tier 1 items to make Tier 2. As it is now, anything without a recipe is simply junk and only used to get better at a high level recipe. They are crafted and dumped.
If you want to limit high durability items (I assume this is the push of the various changes) allow crafters to "upgrade" items. So a Tier 2 could be made at poor level and could be upgraded to higher durability with more materials.This would require A) that basic Tier 2 (and I assume Tier 3) would need to use less materials. Each upgrade would simply add more durability. This could be a one time upgrade, or could be made as a "repair" option that allows you to spend resources to upgrade again. Considering this would take gold and resources, it might be a sufficient sink to offset the current grind, which has a definitive end.
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Recipes aren't the issue it's the fact there are not enough players in game to make things function as intended. In a game where items wear out there is no point to limiting the ability to craft them. No point in trying to consume a lower tier item just to make a tier 2 or so on. Leave the recipe system alone and lets figure out how to fix the real problems...
It would be majorly beneficial to everyone if we had an actual idea what sort of things were currently causing the biggest issues for the devs, and if something is holding a patch or mechanic from being added just let the community know. I mean we are paying to support creation of the game and it's in early access now. Keep your player base informed and we will carry you to the launch... Leaving people in the dark and guessing only leads to people jumping online trying to make the next negative viral video to trash yet another potentially good game from getting the support it needs.
I'm sure in a matter of minutes my reply will get some sort of a negative comment so let them roll in lol.... Just remember we all paid to play, so we are the support... Don't kick the chair out from under you and expect not to hit the floor...
I love this game, and the people I have met playing it are actually a breath of fresh air!
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Hey there!
This is definitely an interesting topic and would love to hear more about the concerns that stem from limited recipes.I'll keep an eye on this thread for more feedback.
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@Arcahem oh weekly post, vague and obscure as always. Good on you
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Since the Community Manager Arcahem said he will pay more attention to this post I'll take the time to write something else which is an idea that could be fun.
Think about the possibility of something fun that can be crafted in addition to the current system for content later on down the road. It would be pretty cool if we could make say horseshoes for our mounts that could say give a possible 5% increase to run speed on non-paved roads, and then a set that would increase the speed when hauling something like a wagon. There could be a set of horseshoes that would also give a slight increase to running on dirt roads. I think that there is a lot of cool directions that could be explored for mounts as the game grows.
This could eventually lead into our mounts being able to be outfitted with different barding. Now I understand that this is a stretch, but it would also be nice if there was a way to have banners for our guilds and crests that could be selected. This would give us the ability to mark wagons with it and horses, towns, and map town icons.
Would also be nice to one day see the ability to color our gear to make our guilded forces stand out even more in combat and while out in the deadly worlds.
Now to tackle the Recipe issue again lol.... Let's think about this... Recipes shouldn't be limited runs because the other mechanics in game keep items from flooding the market and causing problems. The ore nodes require several hours before being able to be farmed again... This makes it much harder to overwhelm the market to begin with. If the player base was much higher there could even be a shortage on metal gear and weapons due to this bottle neck. I feel only time with a populated server will expose the truth here.
For things like Leather gear and cloth.... Yes! Leather and Cloth can be found a lot easier in game than ores... this is why if I'm not mistaken leather and cloth gear durability wears out a little faster than metal gear. It isn't as often found on the front line of tanking combat and it's easier to get your hands on, so it doesn't last as long.
A smart player that takes PvP seriously and loots someone's gear can either sell this gear, use it, give it away, or let's think about this... Destroy It! Once it's destroyed it's no longer in the world to deal with or use. Nothing keeping a guild from using their hard-earned gold to buy overpopulated market items and then destroy them to keep things competitive. If they aren't the best at PvP then no worries the market will be constantly making sales to replace what they are losing.
This all boils down to let's not be quick to start changing simple things like recipes when there hasn't even been enough people on to truly see how it will all play out in the end. Let's focus the time and effort towards getting new content finished and placed in game. Fix things like broken bridges, and getting stuck inside objects while having to call for a team of buddies to help rig a way for you to get free since there is no one to help you unstuck haha.
Oh, the joys of being a supporter of a new MMO that is going to launch eventually. These are the times that are annoying now and will be bragging rights later on down the road when people buy this and jump in after its polished. Embrace the annoying times and give feedback to the Devs that's positive or a possible solution to a problem. I can assure you that they have plenty to deal with so let's not become additional problems for them because there is no patch that can be added to fix that issue. Only you can do that for you.
Happy Gaming to Everyone and looking forward to this game progressing!
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Taking notes on the first part, thank you for your interesting suggestions!
As for the second part, I'll let the developers know more about the recipes in detail and the general feeling of them being limited, of course, if there are any further reasons or feedback as to why you don't want to see them become limited, I'll still be keeping an eye on this thread!
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I have to agree that vast changes are not the answer at the moment. There are other issues with the system that need to be addressed before being completely overhauled. Complexity and grind are not always useful for the sake of complexity and grind. I guess the question is, what are you trying to achieve? We can only guess at why some changes or proposals are made and everyone has a different view of what they think will work. But without knowing the reasoning behind the functionality or proposed functionality we might as well be spitting into the wind.
There is also something that has been brought front and center to my attention and has some very serious consequences to the game overall. There is a vast difference in mindset between various parts of the player base. This leads some people to consider a change good while others to consider it game-breaking. This split in player base needs to be addressed before you can really decide how to proceed. Yes, I am keeping it a bit vague because there is a ripple effect to all of this and would like to avoid losing players faster than is already happening.
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I have two questions that I think need answered before you even address the topic of whether or not recipes should be changed.
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Why do recipes exist at all?
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In a completely player driven economy, why should the developers make changes to ensure that any specific item does not lose it's value?
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I like recipes because they provide some kind of gate that prevents everyone from crafting everything. They effectively provide a supply cap on the newly created economy. Providing a cap on supply protects the economy from being flooded with cheap (read as literally cheaper than the pure gold cost to craft) equipment when the market is at its weakest after a wipe.
I think this is why recipes exist. I think it is important that they serve this function because, I believe for the game to thrive it needs to have a healthy population of crafters and merchants. Part of getting and maintaining that population is adding systems that require players to actually invest time and effort into the system - which recipes do. If everyone can do everything then the people who actually want to focus on crafting and the economy have less reason to play and probably wont stick around long term.
I do not think that making recipes have a limited use is helpful to crafting or the economy in any meaningful way. Firstly, once the economy is established, the necessity of an artificial supply cap disappears as the players themselves will be in a much stronger position to effect and control the economy.
Secondly, if the goal is for recipes to act as a money sink, then simply making them have limited use does nothing to make act as a money sink since the money is just shuffled between players and does not actually leave the economy. The extra cost is simply absorbed into the sale value of an item. (i.e. if a recipe costs 10,000gp and works for 100 uses then a responsible crafter will simply increase the cost of the item by 100g to offset the recipe cost.)
If the argument is that recipes should be made limited use so that people who farm them can sell them for lots of money, then I simply disagree that this is the point of recipes. There are plenty of things that can be farmed for money and the developers should not be taking steps to artificially inflate the value of any dropped items outside of making them more or less common drops. In a player run economy, it is not the job of the developers to inflate values.
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All of the above being said, if the developers wanted to change recipes, here is what I would suggest: Change crafting so that recipes become "patterns" and are both limited use and optional.
Making them patterns is simply a name change that better explains why they wear out. Knowing how to make something is different from being able to create them freehand. You need a pattern or template to cut or construct an object and this pattern or template becomes less durable the more you use it. Again, just a change to have it make more sense on why they would degrade.
When making them optional, I would simply suggest that having a pattern would decrease the mistakes made and increase the efficiency of your crafting. Making up numbers:
Crafting a leather helm might take 20 leather, 10 thread, and 1000 gold to do it by hand. If you have a pattern you can make them with only 10 leather, 5 thread, and 500 gold. (It is important that the pattern reduce the materials and the gold needed so that pattern values are more ambiguous. If they're changed to be limited uses then it's to inflate their value. If it only reduces the materials then you don't actually inflate their value because material value is subjective. If you only reduce the gold then the value instantly becomes gold reduction times uses.)
If recipes were changed in the above way then they still act as a coft supply cap on a fresh wipe and will also have some minimum/lingering value throughout the game's lifetime.
I'm not saying the above is what I want, just that if the devs were to change them, this is what I think the best solution would be.
