PvE & PvP Balancing Feedback Thread
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Hi all,
as you've likely noticed in the recent patches, we've been releasing incremental PvP and PvE balancing passes in Fractured Online. The aim is to bring the game to a place where there are several "competitive" archetypes / builds, both in PvE and PvP, and possibly a "counter" for each of them.
To ease us in our quest, your feedback is invaluable! Therefore, we would like to ask you:
- What archetypes /builds you think are visibly OP (too strong) or UP (too weak), and why.
- What abilities/spells you think are visibly OP (too strong) or UP (too weak), and why.
- What weapons/armor sets you think are visibly OP (too strong) or UP (too weak), and why.
Please note that feedback on the early/mid game is welcome, although the focus of this thread is more on the end game, concerning characters with Tier 2, fully enchanted armor / weapons and all the needed abilities unlocked.
Let you voice be heard!
Best,
Jacopo
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Ok, I guess I will be the first one.
I will try to list all the skills that right now never get used, and why:
Acid Shell/Fireball: These spells cost 3 memory points and they feel like weaker versions of their memory 1 equivalents. A fireball inflicts pretty much the same damage as a firebolt, but cannot crit, can be halved, costs a lot more mana, has a huge cooldown and has a longer casting time. The only advantage of the fireball is the higher amount of stacks and the area effect, but honestly even if both fireball and firebolt were memory 1 spells I would struggle to believe many players would go for fireball. Similarly for acid shell. Both of these spells need a bit of a push. Fireball for example could easily be a spell with an INT*30 damage and 60 stacks that decrease with the distance from the center, to make it more interesting.
Cloak of whatever: Cool idea, but for the amount of damage and stacks they inflict, 40 mana per second is really too much. It could be lowered, but IMO these skills would be far more interesting if they were a bit more dynamic. Very low activation cost, like 50 mana, short cooldown (4 secs) and instant activation. Keep the 40 mana per second. This turns them into something that you need to activate and de activate as needed, at which point they become very interesting skills.
Acid Arrows/Burning Arrows/Chilling Arrows: Yeah, it feels weird to put them on the "UP skills" list, because they are used by pretty much 100% of the archer builds. But let's be honest. Would we still use them if it wasn't to circumvent the strike wounds bug? Is an INT*2 additional damage really worth the 50 mana of the arrow? Maybe the chilling arrow because the chill stacks are indeed useful, but the burning one? I feel like they could easily be moved to 30 mana per arrow.
Elemental touches: Same as arrows. Really too much mana required to be used effectively. Fists have also an higher attack speed than arrows, so they will drain you really fast. Ideally, I think that both arrow and fist skills should be changed in the way they work, they should be a cast which provides your next [INT] arrows/ [INT*1.5] punches with the effect. Too many toggles are boring, and they don't interact with the "casting a spell" effects. But that would actually require reworking the skills, so just reducing the mana cost would be a faster fix.
Ricochet: This skill has simply no application or purpose. It costs mana, is used in niche situations, has not so interesting effects and the arrows don't carry any of the base attack effect. They can't even crit. I can't see a situation where an archer would put this on his bar. A possible way to change this skill, is by making the projectile stronger the more it bounces. 50% damage increase on each bounce? Auto crit on bounces? Adds 50% of the damage to the first target as pure damage? There are many possible ways to make this an interesting skill, and they mostly depend on making it an attack that you aim at someone which isn't your primary target, so that the bounce hits your primary target for additional effects.
Volley: Similar applications and issues of Ricochet. It doesn't have a real application. It can technically be used in some particular builds as a shotgun shell, but in reality it is just never used. It should probably get an additional effect on those projectiles. Fear? Confusion? Strip buffs? Lower armor? Lower evasion?
Energy blast: Useless in pvp due to the long charge time and equally useless in pve since in 4 seconds I can do more than INT*32 and for surely less than 400 mana. Cool idea, but the channeling time should be halved (and it would be nice if there was a visual effect where the blast is charging).
Static discharge: Worse version of energy blast. This one is even player centered, 3 memory points and can hurt your allies. This skill can't be easily fixed with numbers alone. It should probably become a spell like explosion, just self centered. You activate it, and 4 seconds later you release the discharge. No need to channel.
These are the skills that currently really feel like they need some help.
There's a lot of other skills which are very rarely used right now, but they are mostly tiered to big fights which we have not seen yet, so we can't judge them properly.
As for actual UP builds, I don't want to speak about that yet, but I can for sure name one. Bleed and poison builds. Really nice effects and potentially strong, but as long as the remedies work like they do and as long as they can be used from inventory, these builds will never have a place in pvp.
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Ill be the second. I agree with all of Spoletta's comments.
Most of the mage spells which can't crit deal abnormally low damage due to low modifiers and not having weapon damage included in the ability damage like most other abilities do. ( In fact, mage abilities are the only ones which suffer from this drawback )
There are also a few channelling AoE mage abilities that can hurt allies that would also be horrible in pvp - You'd be hurting your allies with the skill, so the only option would be do to it among enemies, but you would be vulnerable during the casting because you're channeling. These abilities would also be in the "never should be taken" list.
In terms of armor balance -
Warlock armor still feels too OP. Cooldown reduction is an extremely good trait, and having something like 70% cooldown reduction, while Scholar which only gives 30% added damage after a while doesn't feel balanced at all.
Scholar's passive mana reduction on the armor is way too underpowered, when you compare to the critical chance you get from assassin's clothes. In total you can get about 11% mana cost reduction for scholar, versus 8.5% crit chance for assassin's clothes. The difference here is too huge, especially considering critical chance is a way more powerful trait compared to mana cost reduction. The mana cost reduction has to be way higher to be equal to 8.5% critical chance, or assassin's gear has to have lower critical chance.
In terms of weapons :
Energy staff's passive 15% cooldown reduction far outshines all of the other staffs. CDR is one of the top traits to have, and 10 stacks from the other staffs can't even compare.
I personally was also not a fan of the change where bonus damage is not applied to critical damage ( which was changed two patches ago ). I think it was fine that abilities crit damage amplifies damage + bonus damage.
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I agree with Rife and Spoletta on most all points.
All of the mage channeling abilities are UP.
You are sacrificing you ability to do -anything-. - You cant move, cant use your staff, and have a non insignificant casting time before the ability goes off.
In this time enemies move to avoid it but more often just get to close in and do tons of damage to you with melee auto attacks while you just hope that the amount of damage you are doing is enough to encourage them to run away.. -Spoiler- it does not.
Mages are squishy, have barely any armor, and rarely if ever use mage armor ability due to high cost which you would be paying in -addition- to the channeling cost of the attack abilities. so this lack of mobility and versatility needs to be paired with some seriously big damage otherwise channeled attacks are the universal 'hit me now and kill me' hands up sign of defeat.
In theory big aoe abilities are great for damaging a large group of enemies, but the reality is that due to the small field of view by the time you finish the casting time most enemies will be in melee range and -if you have any- mixed up with allies who may be trying to support you who you will end up damaging when the ability finally goes off.
As such these are rarely -if ever- used. Instead people go with single target or smaller aoe effects which are more controllable and faster to cast allowing you to re-position.
Far more useful are the totems which have a known static aoe that only effects enemies. These are great for zone control risk/reward decisions that do not tie your hands.What about the elemental cloaks? True they do not root you while on. But The damage resistance is pointless. If I am fighting a fire creature I will use fire resistance, not fire cloak. If I choose to do fire damage the mob I am fighting probably is not using fire damage and thus the fire damage resistance is pointless. Were I to use it instead of the fire resistance ability when fighting a fire mob then I would not be getting the benefit of the damage (as the mob is immune or has high resistances) nor would I be getting immunity to the stacks the mob is placing, and it is less resistance. While thematically it might be cool and make sense for a fire cloak to do fire damage and protect against fire damage, it is functionally useless. Just have the ability be damage and stacks. Also note that this is also only for mages who want to get into melee... who are in the minority.
Bandages are OP. There are multiple reasons which have all been mentioned before. The primary one I want to address here is the fact that they have no casting time/animation which means that you can use them on the run, in the middle of an attack, or while on horseback. And all with no memory cost, or mana cost and with a tiny 6 sec cool down. If there is something which -everyone- uses (even if just from their open inventory window while fighting) then it is likely that it is OP and needs balancing.
Without the added damage and enchantments gained from equipment (like a bow) the melee mage brawler build is a joke -and I try, lord do I- The elemental touches are practically the same as the elemental arrows but you -dont- get the bennefits of equipment. Yes the talent tree brawler abilities greatly help in the damage and allowing you to dump you STR stat, but you still cannot get enchantments on your fists as you can with an item, and that alone is enough to make the build UP. Please just create fist wraps / brass knuckles / etc... If you want mages in melee (which this and other very short range abilities allude to) then give them a weapon they can use in that melee that scales off of their int, or con, or dex, whatever. If the equipment does not support the abilities then one or the other will not work.
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Is there any way we can petition Static Pull skill to be changed to a melee Heavy armor instead of a mage skill? Seems completely useless as a mage skill with Light/med armor..... or maybe even add a Chain Pull for tanks
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Heavy armor provides impossibly high bonuses, which get balanced by lacking skills like this one. Anything which is related to mobility and threat range is severely limited to heavy armor users, or they would be unstoppable.
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@spoletta This, as much as a heavy armor user might want them, this would be quite broken in practice
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@spoletta yet have absolutely no taunt or pull which is just dumb... and lack of skills just makes it boring which is why no one hardly plays the role.
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There's no taunt because there isn't a real "aggro" mechanic in this game. Mobs simply try to bash the first target that hit them, and they switch target to the closest one if they can't attack the first target for a while.
I do agree that "tank" mechanics are a bit lacking right now. For now we don't feel it because Syndesia lacks the kind of hard pve content which requires a tank, but for sure it will be an issue for Arboreus.
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Tanks can use any stun or root to manipulate mob aggro and do resets. I do it all the time and you start with an aoe stun.
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You guys are focusing on the Aggro too much...... Tanks need a PULL. why leather and cloth users have one is beyond me. If a Tank can pull them in and stun/root them then they can hold aggro easily.
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that is easy, get a bow and shoot the target first, or get in visual range first. there is your pull and anchor.
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Have you seen how broken the arrows are?? and switching to a bow mid combat to pull an enemy target off a party member just doesn't work nor is it possible. Have you ever even played a Tank in a MMO raid situation like ever???
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hit tab, and viola, bow. hit tab again, and ta-da sword and board.
You dont need arrows or abilities to use a bow, just put it in one of your three hot swap weapon slots.To adjust aggro mid combat stun the target then do damage or be closest when they come out. has worked consistently for me just fine with the starting abilities. Better and easier with later abilities.
You can also use the net ability to root an AOE of targets to give you time to get into range and keep them from chasing your friends.
This is not a mmo where there are hoards of enemies that will target healers. This is straight forward and simple.
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actually it is an MMO lol..... says it even on the main page and your method doesn't work in reality. When you have more tanking experience come back to me.
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@RavenCypher said in PvE & PvP Balancing Feedback Thread:
actually it is an MMO lol..... says it even on the main page and your method doesn't work in reality. When you have more tanking experience come back to me.
Olive is probably the most experienced tank we have in this game, so I suggest that you listen to his point. If he says that it works, then it works.
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Mana drain: cast distance is too short
Second wind: I think it's very powerful, it heals all your health and the cooldown is very short, having a high constitution you only sacrifice 22% rest
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@spoletta
the flattery is overwhelming.
I am most certainally -not- the most experienced tank in the game.
But they are not posting.
which -sadly- makes me defacto the most experienced since I am all people see ..
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Another topic:
Assassin Clothes Set
This set is not doing what it says on the lid, due to many changes that happened to the assassin archetypes after the creation of this set.
First of all, it doesn't make sense that this set provides a bonus to critical chance after the change which made the first hit out of stealth into an auto crit.
Second, this set wants you to lay in stealth for a long time and then strike, which will charge your set bonus. This doesn't pair well with the change which made the stealth last a relatively short amount of time.
This combines with the fact that it wasn't ever that great, since the base damage of assassin weapons is very low.
This set is also very hard to use in different archetypes since the set bonus critical damage applies only to melee attacks.
One of the main reasons why today assassins are never seen around, is that their set offers them no real benefits.
It would probably be better if the set offered a different passive bonus (Evasion or accuracy) and as a set bonus replicated the old shadow dance effect (bonus pure damage on attacks based on your stealth).
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funny, I always saw the assasins set just as a light armor option for crit build fire bolt mages with a pointless set bonus
