Feedback of Sandbox MMO Veteran

  • Hello Community,

    I play sandbox since 2002 and had the biggest hype for oldschool Ultima Online, which is the main reason I was (and still am) so exited for FO. To put first things first: I really like the game so far and I fully understand that we are still in a beta, in which a lot of things are not implemented or may not be in their final stage; still, I'd like to give some feedback as beta tester and long time sandbox player as well as someone who is working in consulting and thus is (at least in real life) paid to improve things. So, my feedback, which I will keep as short as possible:

    • Map size & exploring
      The map is huge, and I really like this. I like huge maps, as they normally offer a lot to explore and a lot of unique content - unfortunately, at the current state the map is just huge (which is, as said before, a plus) but really lacks content; after likes 15 hours in game I really did encounter nothing noteworthy while travelling the map, even when (and I do this a log) going beside the ways. Okay, there are some random mobs roaming around (expected), some random generated camps with loot, some resources - which none of seems rare - and some animals. Also some towns and empty towns. What I would look for:
    1. Rare resources that spawn randomly and can be harvested, like special ore, or plants, or anything like this..
    2. All kinds of rides to tame. Rare ones, funny ones. Whatever. Especially Llamas - you guys need definitely Llamas to be mounts, everything else would just be sad
    3. Places to explore, that are not just more mobs of the same type in a more dense populated area; things to find, etc.
    • Travelling on land
      Linked to "Map size & exploring" - Travelling takes ages, even if taken in the roads, and is just boring. I stare on the screen, see my character ride, ride through mobs, empty places, and nothing happens. Perhaps I need to build a campfire so I dont die of exhaustion, but thats it. My suggestions are:
    1. If players are forced to travel for ages, make travelling more interesting (see map size)
    2. If travelling stays boring, make it faster, for example by having mounts with different speed, or by introducing some kind of cheap fast travel, or bring some kind of Kal Ort Por (town portal - for reference how to implement in a good way see Ultima Online)
    3. Get rid of the exhaustion as it is now. It is just annoying and really adds nothing to the game, besides convulsive rock gathering; a good solution would be to have exhaustion just slow down the speed, and not to inflict damage
    • Travelling by boat
      Travelling by boat is ridiculously expensive. I understand that this is because of inter-city and inter-continental trading, but then again make travelling by boat a lot cheaper and add fees based on the median value of the ressources in the inventory, as soon as this median values are known; also, give the ability to take carts on the boat, tax them likewise; it makes no sense not to be able to ship the wagons.

    • Lockpicking
      I understand that chests and safes and so on need to be lockpicked; but then again, it makes no sense that even low level chests require advances lockpicks, even when dex 15+; more so, because advanced lockpicks drop not really often and are destroyed after a failed attempt. It is really frustrating when clearing a spawn, just to notify, that the chest can not be opened. I understand that this is an incentive to party, but it makes no sense at low level stuff - of course, opening the dragons lairs safe needs to be challenging... but a goblin chest? C'mon!

    • Resources
      It would be really helpful if all resources had tooltips; I have gathered a lot of stuff I dont even remotely know what to do with

    • Showing Off
      This is a big one and perhaps some people will disagree; but I'm a busy man, I work a lot, and when I invest time and, later on perhaps money, in a game, I want to show off what I have achieved; so I would suggest the following changes:

    1. In Ultima Online I was able do doubleclick a character and see, what he wears. I want something similar in FO; I want to see (and envy ;)) what other players have achieved and I want the same to be true for my character
    2. It is really important (!) to have clothes to customize your character; like, what is a MMO without straw hats and robes? Also I want to change the color of that clothes. And have rare colors.
    3. It is equally important that armour of the same type looks different IG if crafted from different materials; it is very lame that my cool warg hide armour looks the same as some other lame leather armour; I really dont want this, and it makes me sad.
    4. If I kill a player, I want to be able to cut of an ear of something like that (hair, a finger, whatever seems compliant) and showcase that item in my player house, or on the walls, or so. This was a great feature on some UO servers and kept me (and some other PKs) motivated for YEARS.
    5. Introduce rare, one of a kind items... like, really unique items. Or, if not unique, really rare items with no sense at all other then being rare and strange; I also spent YEARS in Ultima Online building a really large collection of such items and showcasing them in my house
    6. It is really important that items acquired can be showcased in your player house. Like, okay it may be difficult to implement "dropped on the floor / table / etc." graphics to the game... but it is cool and necessary. If you dont want to do this, give at least the opportunity to place chests in which I can lock Items and which each visiting player can look into (look, dont touch)
    • PVP / PK
      I think that the current player loot system is not really competetive and discouraged PKing a lot, which is, even if not everyone likes it, a big part of the thrill e.g. the original UO had.. so my suggestions are:
    1. If not playing on Trammel (like, I mean the Animal Island or Beast Guy Island or however it is called), PK should be possible and if someone does not want to fight players, he can trammel.
    2. It is discouraging that PKs (red, bad guys, whatever) drop equip on death, while others just drop inventory. I understand that being evil has consequences, but at the current state we will see a PK meta with minimal equipped characters, ganking upon some prey, which is funny (I dont mind it) in my eyes, but will be a huge turn off to other Players; so instead of full loot / no loot just do the following:
      --> Blue player (good guys) can chose like 4 items they wear and flag them as non lootable
      --> Grey ones (neutral) can do the same with like 3 items
      --> Red ones (the baddies) can do the same, but only with 2 items..

    Okay, thats it for now. If you (devs) like some of my suggestions and want additional ideas how to monetarize them, contact me via PM - I'm german speaking.



    @THH good feedback, i agree with most.
    i only disagree with the PVP part, you forgot that should be a PVP planet, there should be minimal PVP in human planet.

  • Content Creator

    @THH I've played Sandbox MMOs for a comparable amount of time. (Longer, but with mayhaps more breaks for Tabletop, as I started in the late 90s, beta testing EverQuest)

    I see what your saying on several things, but there is a bit you don't fully get that is part of the Fractured plan.

    1. Fast Travel is something they don't really want at all. They have put in the Ports, as a small compromise, and because there needs to be a way between continents, but in a player driven economy, they want travel to be long and inconvenient, to make trade caravans a thing.

    2. Also in regards to the player driven economy: on that note, this is why FO doesn't want any Unique Item Drops. Once you add in a Unique Item, be it silly or game-changingly powerful, you add in a non-player based economy item. Such valuable items skew the who economics.

    3. Clothing and such: Since FO is dedicated to no Pay2Win micro-transaction philosophy, they are trying to put a large amount of the thought on Cosmetics such as basic clothes and armor skins, house decor, etc... into their Real-World stores for cash. By account binding these items as well, they prevent them from skewing the economy, and make them purely the vanity items they are meant to be.

    4. PvP: PvP is allowed on Syndesia(the currently implemented world) but it is meant to be heavily discouraged and at a huge disadvantage. PvP here is meant to only be for a few diehards who want that kind of extreme challenge, not as a method to bypass regular PvE gameplay to hyper-profit. Full PvP will be on Tartarus when it is implemented, and No PvP will be on Arborea, but Syndesia, although allowing PvP, doesn't want to incentivize it at all. Although PvPers have traditionally been the vocal majority of players, they are actually in the minority, PvEers just don't get as vocal about it, and if the PvP gets to be too much, they move on to another game/server.

    5. Showing off, Boring Travel, Random Nodes, Etc... : There is a good chance they will implement things of this nature later, but these are things that have to come after they work out the balancing of the other systems in the game. Alpha did some of that, but Beta is still overall a testing phase, and you don't want to throw in all the moving parts all at once. I like the idea of non-fixed nodes for rarer item gathers. The ability to click on a character and view them and their custom cosmetic skins would also be great, and a way to increase sells of the cosmetic components of the game, keeping the Pay2Win aspects out, etc...

    6. Lockpicks for lowlevels: Eventually, I see the ability to craft higher quality lockpicks, not just finding them, AND right now, any chest is considered at minimum a Mid-level find. "low-level" is hard to judge in a non-level based game, however, essentially, Chests are mid-game content, not starter content, and although available, even goblin chests are not meant to be easy to get into...and have you fought goblins, in the beginning, solo, Goblins can be tough MFs to take down anyway.

  • Content Creator

    i totally agree with your "show off" suggestions

  • Moderator

    You are probably doing something wrong in lockpicking.

    With dex 15 I need the dropped lockpicks only for master chests. Everything else is easily opened with wooden lockpicks.

    Obviously you need the talents.

  • @THH

    • If travelling stays boring, make it faster, for example by having mounts with different speed, or by introducing some kind of cheap fast travel, or bring some kind of Kal Ort Por (town portal - for reference how to implement in a good way see Ultima Online)

    I agree with the most points but portals and fast travelling would destroy some other game mechanics, like trading between citys and attacking caravans to get loot.
    -A better idea would be an automatic move function at some mainstreets. You just need to click to any city and your horse start to move.

  • @GamerSeuss said in Feedback of Sandbox MMO Veteran:

    • Clothing and such: Since FO is dedicated to no Pay2Win micro-transaction philosophy, they are trying to put a large amount of the thought on Cosmetics such as basic clothes and armor skins, house decor, etc... into their Real-World stores for cash. By account binding these items as well, they prevent them from skewing the economy, and make them purely the vanity items they are meant to be.

    I agree with that, if you want to look uniqe, you should invest money.
    May you can add this to city buildings like warehouse or market too.

    Another idea: after the game grows bigger the global chat could only useable for real money

  • Sure, here is a comment for the post:

    The poster provides some thoughtful feedback on various aspects of the game, including map size and exploration, traveling, lockpicking, resources, showing off, and PVP/PK. Their suggestions are well-reasoned and could lead to significant improvements in the game's overall experience.

    I particularly agree with the poster's suggestions for making traveling more interesting and less time-consuming. The introduction of mounts, a fast travel system, or a Kal Ort Por-like mechanic would all be welcome additions. Additionally, the poster's suggestions for improving the lockpicking system and making resources more clear are also valid.

    In terms of showing off, the poster's desire to be able to see what other players have achieved and to customize their own character is understandable. The ability to double-click on a character to see their equipment, as well as the addition of more cosmetic items, would certainly be appreciated by many players.

    Finally, the poster's suggestions for PVP/PK are also worth considering. The proposed changes to the player loot system could help to make PK more rewarding and less discouraged. Additionally, the idea of allowing players to flag certain items as non-lootable could help to balance out the risk and reward of PK.

    Overall, the poster's feedback is constructive and well-argued. I hope that the developers will take their suggestions into consideration and implement some of them in future updates.

  • @Krah attacking a caravan seems like a PVP issue since its going to be towns full of players thats going to be defending the caravan of their shit....SO out with the whole NO PVP on certain planets

  • I enjoy the travel between towns and gather items to sell in different markets.
    If fast travel/shared auction houses were in place it would ruin the gameplay loop for me.

    I would like PKs to be discouraged in the human world with no restrictions in the demon world. I'd like PKs to have a place, but why do they need any rewards since so many of them do it for "the challenge"?

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