The PvE vs PvP Thread
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@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
All im saying is you lose a lot of credibility when you encourage and try to justify going against the rules of said game. If the game was meant to be botted there would be an in game function for that.
Dunno what are you talking about. I'm not trying to convince people I'm just telling what I'm going to do. For sure I will not lose 2 hours on gathering and 10 mins only on killing stuff (mobs or players) and then get back 2 hours on gathering. I will bot for sure if the game will be like that or prolly I will not play at all. In all my wow guilds botting was allowed due we had to be at 200%. None care's how you did it if plying h24 or botting cause the purpose was the same: 1st kill of the server or at least top ranks. But ofc there the botting where limited, I was botting for golds and consumables. The crafted equip was shitty. I don't know how will be the game. As I said many times if the game will be a gank fest I will not play. If the game will be too grindy (and th equips impact too high) I will bot to get money an buy equips. I would like to see a game different from albion we don't need a copy. I don't like to steal in game to get the gear neither play as worker. I can accept the grind to craft the gear in a situation without pvp loot. Yeah main problem is the full loot. But if I get a planet to grind safely my gear that could be a compromise if the time related to grind and craft will be fair. In Albion is not fair for example neither the repair cost. Devs said they want us to join action since the begining so I hope the gear will be superficial. If it will be superficial/optional I will play without argue. An "Open World MOBA" .
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bots are cheating. that's why it's in the ToS/EULA to ban the account.
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@jetah yeah I know blizzard has banned those using honor buddy too
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I have not said that I will bot at 100%. I don't know neither if I will play the game. I need more info to understand how the game will be. Fast equipping could be a compromise due the full loot. That's all.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I have not said that I will bot at 100%. I don't know neither if I will play the game. I need more info to understand how the game will be. Fast equipping could be a compromise due the full loot. That's all.
Well they said equipment wont have much of an impact so thats good then. It will be knowledge points that are seeked after. But thats fun.
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People here still not understand that I like pvp I only dislike the full loot, and the ganking strategy to steal loot.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)Bots is a must to balance nerds playing h24 and normal people(...)
I'm fully with @Miffi when he states:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:(...)If the game was meant to be botted there would be an in game function for that.
If the design of a game forces you into an action that is prohibited by the ToS, that is bad design. If your design requires persistent player gathering, first try to design ways to avoid this and if that's not working, enable the feature for everybody.
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)Why would people need to cheat? (...)Also, yes, your right to a certain degree but that was your choice? You chose the challenge of being at a 'disadvantage' even though your desire to PvP was what drove you to that race and planet? Im also not completely sure why they would need to bot? Are you saying because they would be invaded by the no pvp planet? Sure there will be some who do, but the mass majority who are on those planets arent interested in PvP so that doesnt really apply here.(....)
Why a PvP player would have to cheat ('bot') is exactly what I tried to explain with my question for savings book versus stocks. If both yield the same interest rate, the additional risk of stocks leaves them as a meaningless option. If there is a benefit in form of a higher interest rate for stocks compared to a savings book, there is a higher reward for a higher risk and they are a valid option (which is why they are designed that way). In terms of the gameplay design, if you want people to take a higher risk, you have to offer them a higher reward, else taking a higher risk is just plain stupid.
Yes, we have been told that the influence of gear is not going to be 'game breaking', but that still leaves a lot of potential influence on the outcome of a battle, so gear could be 'semi required for the competitive player'. If that is the case, consider how much of a disadvantage it is to a player who is 'farming/gathering' in a PvP environment compared to a non-PvP environment. If there wouldn't be such a disadvantage, other people in this thread wouldn't right out state they would be botting and hacking in order to gain that advantage. Quod erat demonstrandum.
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Hard to balance the reward vs risk. Or you make pvpers happy or you do for pvers. There will be always someone to dislike something. If for pvpers an high reward means the player loot for a pver is to lose less things as possible (so less risk). Kinda hard to balance. If we'll be competitive in pvp also without gear (not necessary) that would be fair for me to focus pvp mostly. I don't care to steal things from players or to became rich in game for me that's not rewarding. Dunno if I'm the only one with this purpose.
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Wouldn't ideal model be that PvPers gain money to pay PvEers for crafted items? Then most would be happy
PvP players could gain "taxes" from controlled territory and stuff.Not everyone has to be a crafter after all.
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Yes, we have been told that the influence of gear is not going to be 'game breaking', but that still leaves a lot of potential influence on the outcome of a battle, so gear could be 'semi required for the competitive player'. If that is the case, consider how much of a disadvantage it is to a player who is 'farming/gathering' in a PvP environment compared to a non-PvP environment. If there wouldn't be such a disadvantage, other people in this thread wouldn't right out state they would be botting and hacking in order to gain that advantage. Quod erat demonstrandum.
I see what you mean now, thats a fair point. There is a possible way around that maybe we increased value of resources from the PvP planet? Instead of costing 10 ores its only 3 as oppose to the none pvp. My question would also be if demons would be at such a disadvantage with a debuff why would they bother with Arboreus anyway? In the sense if disadvantage is the problem.
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@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)There is a possible way around that maybe we increased value of resources from the PvP planet? Instead of costing 10 ores its only 3 as oppose to the none pvp.
Other games that face a similar dilemma continuously fail on balancing that. The most recent example, Shroud of the Avatar, tried to give 'PvP players' a 10% experience bonus, but very few people choose to PvP there, simply because, despite the bonus, the balance is still off and there's little incentive.
How much of an advantage is it if 'your three bots are gathering 24/7 in a save spot'? How much of a disadvantage is it if you have to always expect PvP while hunting, whereas others can easily focus on PvE and thus tackle 'bigger fish'? There's no easy answer to that.@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)My question would also be if demons would be at such a disadvantage with a debuff why would they bother with Arboreus anyway? In the sense if disadvantage is the problem.
[.] Because that debuff is situational (the Demon can decide timing and duration, simply through when the Demon chooses to take the Stargate), whereas otherwise it is permanent.
[.] Because there is an additional value (you can extend to an area where you'd normally not have access) and there's a reasonable justification for the debuff (evening the odds of a fight, the competitive PvP player accepts being on equal terms, but not to be put at a disadvantage).
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Other games that face a similar dilemma continuously fail on balancing that. The most recent example, Shroud of the Avatar, tried to give 'PvP players' a 10% experience bonus, but very few people choose to PvP there, simply because, despite the bonus, the balance is still off and there's little incentive.
How much of an advantage is it if 'your three bots are gathering 24/7 in a save spot'? How much of a disadvantage is it if you have to always expect PvP while hunting, whereas others can easily focus on PvE and thus tackle 'bigger fish'? There's no easy answer to that.The point is different. They have to offer what the players want. If pvp will be more convenient do not expet to see pvers changing style. SoA (dunno how the people can play that) have more pvers that pvp just because pvers are more than pvpers. People prefers a safe gameplay. You can do what you want also trying to make pvp more convenient but the people tha likes to play safely will leave the ga and no changing style despite pvper sometimes goes to pve side.
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@logain The debuff also evens some odds if there are more demons than beast/humans.
I expect to see some humans travel to tartarus then to arboreus just to defend the planet (unless they have a direct way).
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@jetah we are "forced" to travel to all planets if we want discover all spells for the knowledge system. I'm pretty sure beasts an humans ill travel too.
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depends on the spells on other planets. you aren't forced but you are enticed.
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@jetah I used "" to dampen the word and not to emphasize it. But prolly it's just a mood we have in Italy. But yeah the concept is that we should discover all planets if we want more knowledge. I hope to see it mixed up so all kind of schoolo for all planets.
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my current problem with the exploration is there are places beastkin can get to that demons can't. what if there are skills in the areas where "evil can't reach".
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@jetah I hope that will be something with pvp protection (pvp Off) and not access restrinction. My Ideal Arboreus would be something like accessible for all alignments except for cities but every play with pvp off. So also demons can travel/discover and gather. That's why I said that 2 planets are enough for the pvp.
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
my current problem with the exploration is there are places beastkin can get to that demons can't. what if there are skills in the areas where "evil can't reach".
I don't know about obtaining abilities but if the demons want to level them all to lvl 3, they are screwed.
https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/522/feature-spotlight-3-the-knowledge-system/28We'll try to avoid that as much as we can, but there's nothing inherently bad in a Demon being cut off a few level 3s :slight_smile:
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yeah that's
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