PvE Planet with PvP
-
there's nothing stopping furies from traveling to the human or demon planets. if you're a fury and want to pvp then just find a way to the other planets.
-
@Tuoni To be fair with the economy concern addressed I think that giving up unconsentual PvP on Arb is a great route. Previously I thought that partial PvP is a half-measure to kinda sorta stabilise and counteract the safe resourse influx, but as it turned out it's not true at all and I think that it would be best to only allow dueling on Arboreus, think runescape duel arena kinda deal: set your rules and battle it out.
Although I am too intending to main a human on Syndesia these are my thoughts on the topic.
-
@humerus said in PvE Planet with PvP:
@Tuoni To be fair with the economy concern addressed I think that giving up unconsentual PvP on Arb is a great route. Previously I thought that partial PvP is a half-measure to kinda sorta stabilise and counteract the safe resourse influx, but as it turned out it's not true at all and I think that it would be best to only allow dueling on Arboreus, think runescape duel arena kinda deal: set your rules and battle it out.
Although I am too intending to main a human on Syndesia these are my thoughts on the topic.When I played Runescape there was only full loot PvP in wilderness.
In my opinion, I like the idea that different races has that chance to travel other planets and gather resources from there. I think it is fine that demons and evil characters in general has that opportunity travel to Arboreus. However, the best solution would be that they can only arrive on a specific area which is not much from the whole land mass, that way those inhabitants who do not want to encounter hostile PvP can avoid that 100% if they want to. I am sure there will be those beastmen players as well who can live with that possibility to encounter open world PvP action. Perhaps that certain PvP area has some resource hotspots from where can benefit those bold beastmen as well and not just the invaders. If that 30 minutes radius (hard gap) or 15 minutes (soft gap) feels troublesome to implement right, then the invasion could be limited to a certain continent from where the invaders will not get further and where inhabitants can fast travel with boats. We also have to remember that demons will be heavily debuffed which might make them quite vulnerable and good targets for demon hunters.
I would not take PvP totally out from the PvE planet because then there is no danger for demons, and they can just gather in peace without having any serious threat. So I would implement the PvP content in Arboreus in way that it would be more threat for demons rather than beastmen.
-
When I played Runescape there was only full loot PvP in wilderness.
That's the point: in rs the duel arena allows you to set the duel rules and select the items you will loose in case of defeat. No loot actually drops on death.
-
Not all pvp is the same. There is a huge difference between wars/tournaments/duels and ganking/ambushing.
-
@Tuoni said in PvE Planet with PvP:
In my opinion, I like the idea that different races has that chance to travel other planets and gather resources from there. I think it is fine that demons and evil characters in general has that opportunity travel to Arboreus. However, the best solution would be that they can only arrive on a specific area which is not much from the whole land mass, that way those inhabitants who do not want to encounter hostile PvP can avoid that 100% if they want to. I am sure there will be those beastmen players as well who can live with that possibility to encounter open world PvP action. Perhaps that certain PvP area has some resource hotspots from where can benefit those bold beastmen as well and not just the invaders. If that 30 minutes radius (hard gap) or 15 minutes (soft gap) feels troublesome to implement right, then the invasion could be limited to a certain continent from where the invaders will not get further and where inhabitants can fast travel with boats. We also have to remember that demons will be heavily debuffed which might make them quite vulnerable and good targets for demon hunters.
I would not take PvP totally out from the PvE planet because then there is no danger for demons, and they can just gather in peace without having any serious threat. So I would implement the PvP content in Arboreus in way that it would be more threat for demons rather than beastmen.That's why I said before that there is no need for changes, as the way you describe it, is like 95-100% as the devs have described the plans so far for how Arboreus would be
-
@Farlander said in PvE Planet with PvP:
Not all pvp is the same. There is a huge difference between wars/tournaments/duels and ganking/ambushing.
An optional extra for those who want it versus being unable to leave a safe zone without being ganked. It's the forced PvP I hate. I don't care how much PvP options exist as long as they're completely optional.
There's the demon planet for those who want unrestricted PvP and the human planet for semi-restricted PvP. Let's keep all* non-consensual PvP off the beast planet and solve any economic (or other) problems a different way please.
*maybe if a demon appears a beastman could attack them and trigger PvP but with no looting.
-
@Yitra I know it is close what developers has planned but still the concreteness is missing, like how the things really goes in practice. It is very easy to say that most of the PvE planet is relatively safe from PvP, invading Arboreus is a group effort and evil characters will be debuffed. That is few years old information and very high level stuff.
-
Bottom line is that people were already griefing in the last tests by blocking houses with carts. It's obvious for anyone who played an online game before that expecting people to behave is a bad idea => open world PvE without a way to dispute spots doesn't work. A compromise has to be made in this regard: instanced farming zones, pvp without looting, whatever.
-
@Razvan It is true that you cannot never trust all players to behave like normal people and if there is a tiny chance to take advantage of something or there is a loophole which can be used for unintented way, someone will do that.
Good example would be that 30 minutes timer what evil characters can stay in Arboreus. First we could asume that the max radius would be 15 minutes because that demon needs to get back to the portal before time runs out.. right? Wrong! If there is a chance to roam and kill other players who crosses your path it will be done for fun and tears regardless the raid will end up for own death.
Camping is also one very usual method which can be used wrong so many ways and if there will be that player collision.. oh boy. xD
-
Evil players can only venture around edge areas of Arboreus though. This is so they can have a chance to get to Arboreus resources as well, however shortly.
They can not venture into safe zone.
Good players have it much better in that regard, not being limited by timer on Tartaros. After some time expires, they get marked on map, sure.
But then they can simply leave and problem solved, or if they are organized and grouped up they can stay even longer.
But yes, there are always people that will try to grief other people. But this is not limited to "evil karma characters", not by far. There will be a huge deal of "good karma characters" who will try to grief by exploiting game mechanics on Arboreus.
Hogging up house entrances, mailboxes, trade stands, city entrances so people can't pass with carts, grief other people while they farm in all the ways they can discover,...
For me that's much worse than someone enganging you in PvP action. But that's just my opinion.
-
@Gothix Oh I completely agree that your a toon's alignment has very little to do with the alignment of the player. Blue griefers were just as bad to me as the red pks in UO. I hope the devs are vigilant and try to remove the loopholes that players use to grief others as they are discovered.
That's why I said not all pvp is the same. I enjoy organized pvp. I've lost an edge in the hand eye coordination but it's still fun. What I don't like are the griefing and ambush tactics most pks use. They gank you when you are at your most vulnerable such as hitting you while surrounded in pvm aggro or killing a mule who is not even geared/skilled to fight. Then they have the audacity to berate you for being a noob when in fact they were just cowardly turds.
-
@Farlander While these guerilla/raid tactics are very demotivating and distasteful towards solo players that are doing not-so-profitable and mundane content, deploying them in GvG or towards solos that are risking a lot of gold or just doing very profitable/important content is very different. This makes bodyguard/merc guilds viable, it makes the items the players are producing more valuable and saught after, this just makes the game more interesting for everyone involved whether they understand it or not. After all if you could kill that cool boss and take it's cool drop safely without any risk, it would a) have huge impact on how the economy works and b) on how much value there is behind your gear not only price-wise.
But yeah, noob smashers are complete and utter turds, we can all agree on that one ;D
-
...if you could kill that cool boss and take it's cool drop safely without any risk...
The risk should be from whether you can take the boss itself. Not another player waiting to gank you and steal your effort. That's not interesting or fun to me. I do understand how it might be for some but it's rather presumptuous to speak for everyone.
The exception is on the demon planet or if you've willingly joined an opposing militia on the human planet.
-
@Psymantis Well then Arboreus might just be the planet for you: uncontested PvM goodness without any PKers.
But the boss dificulty isn't really risk per se. I was talking about how open world PvP diversifies the gameplay and the social aspect of doing content.
-
@Gothix said in PvE Planet with PvP:
Good players have it much better in that regard, not being limited by timer on Tartaros. After some time expires, they get marked on map, sure.
But then they can simply leave and problem solved, or if they are organized and grouped up they can stay even longer.
This is what I found about debuffs on Tartaros:
"Travelling to Tartaros is extremely challenging for any Beastman, since not only they lose the buffs they are granted on Arboreus, but also become the target of the hate of Babilis. The Evil God enjoys stacking curses on the poor fellows, who could end up dying just because of them – if they don’t get slayed by Demons, that is.
Unlike Beastmen, Humans are generally tolerated by Babilis, who sees a potential for corruption in them. They aren’t directly penalized like Beastmen, but slowly lose Karma over time, unless they enjoy the protection of another God. Tyros, for instance, grants total immunity from the influence of Babilis – but of course, that comes at a price too. While the dark God is not able to reach their souls, it is more than willing to let its children do the dirty job! That is why, one hour after stepping on the planet, the presence of any protegee of Tyros is made known to all Demons in the area!"It seams that the notification after one hour is related to the God Tyros and his protection. Beastmen in other hand are treated quite similar what demons are in Arboreus, heavily debuffed.
-
I guess we can agree on that travelling to other planets will be a challenge.
Which is a good thing, I like that.
Players will be incentivized to organize accordingly and venture prepared. Your choices will matter. Strategies will matter.
This should end up great.
-
@Gothix But we still need good incentives to go through the hustle of actually prepping and doing it. If there is no fat cashstack at the other end no one will actually be doing this.
-
@humerus Oh I'm all for the 3 different planets and their different pvp styles. I was merely stating why I didn't like the demon planet over the others for the reasons that particular pvp style is not my personal flavor
I'm just glad the devs have given us the option to avoid that play style. But also I know there are other forms of griefing easily accomplished by "blue" players.Here is my opinion on how the population density will compare from my mmo experiences:
- Beast planet will be most densely populated planet (best secure your house early)
- Human planet will be next and their pvm areas will be the most densely traveled
- Demon planet will be desolate and the players there will be complaining on the forums they have too few players to murder/gank. They will be arguing in the forums to add more open pvp to the other lands. The good thing is you will have plenty of housing options.
Again this is my opinionated speculation.
-
Demon planet will be desolate and the players there will be complaining on the forums they have too few players to murder/gank. They will be arguing in the forums to add more open pvp to the other lands.
Actually I think that adding more incentive for nonPKers to be on Tartaros might be good: it will both increase the avg player density and give more things for demons to do in their PvP-free time
This will be very difficult though as ballancing this out will be a nightmare.
