Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.
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That is why I have talked about daily quests so those are not getting mixed up with daily activities. Daily activities are not integrated daily quests do not let the word daily to confuse you. If we think of timed crafting it is needed from economical point of view. Those timers prevents overproduction of certain crafted materials and keeps them more valueable and rare that way. Without any restrictions markets would overflood of almost everything and people would have too easy access to all items and especially for gear.
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@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
That is why I have talked about daily quests so those are not getting mixed up with daily activities. Daily activities are not integrated daily quests do not let the word daily to confuse you. If we think of timed crafting it is needed from economical point of view. Those timers prevents overproduction of certain crafted materials and keeps them more valueable and rare that way. Without any restrictions markets would overflood of almost everything and people would have too easy access to all items and especially for gear.
Dailies are something that happen daily.
A daily quest is a daily. An event that happens daily is a daily.
Just because there is not an NPC that says, "This is a Daily quest" does not make a daily event not Daily.
If it functions daily. The reward is daily. The activity is daily. It is daily. The word, "Daily Quest" doesn't need to be tied to it to magically change its function some how.
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While it may take a day to craft leather, you may for example also steal that leather from someone else, or purchase it, or... (other sources of obtaining it, without cooldown)... You are not forced to do this daily activity, and you can still get that item in another ways.
But this is still not the point, as I said, the main point is psychological effect "daily quests" have on players.
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@Gothix said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
While it may take a day to craft leather, you may for example also steal that leather from someone else, or purchase it, or... (other sources of obtaining it, without cooldown)... You are not forced to do this daily activity, and you can still get that item in another ways.
But this is still not the point, as I said, the main point is psychological effect "daily quests" have on players.
I feel like that is an unfair example because as many have stated they prefer their daily quest to offer unimportant items, that aren't unique to them and don't force you to do them.
It would be like if I asked someone if they liked Oranges and they replied no because if you eat a rotten one they taste nasty. And then someone saying what about this fresh one that isn't rotten?
I completely agree with you that some dailies are excessive and cumbersome (This statement is in my starting post) and some dailies use high tier items that are unique to them. Both of these are the worse way to do them (Rotten if you will).
However, there are plenty of dailies that don't do that. That can feel integrated into the game and just highlight what you were already going to do (Fresh if you will).
Fractured's daily system is integrated into the game with daily timers (Nodes/Resources/Farming/Etc) and Weekly (or monthly) claim maintence. Which makes me think you are 100% right on the issue really being psychological since we had someone go from hating the idea of daily quest to thankful that the game just uses 24 hour timers to get people to login daily lol.
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@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
That is why I have talked about daily quests so those are not getting mixed up with daily activities. Daily activities are not integrated daily quests do not let the word daily to confuse you. If we think of timed crafting it is needed from economical point of view. Those timers prevents overproduction of certain crafted materials and keeps them more valueable and rare that way. Without any restrictions markets would overflood of almost everything and people would have too easy access to all items and especially for gear.
Dailies are something that happen daily.
A daily quest is a daily. An event that happens daily is a daily.
Just because there is not an NPC that says, "This is a Daily quest" does not make a daily event not Daily.
If it functions daily. The reward is daily. The activity is daily. It is daily. The word, "Daily Quest" doesn't need to be tied to it to magically change its function some how.
You are right that the word "Daily" or "Dailies" are the problematic ones because those can mean either daily activities or daily quests. That is why I would suggest to separate daily quest and daily activity from each other. At least daily quest is very easy to to define as its original meaning; A repeatable quest which can be done once / day. It means exact that and nothing else. I hope we can all agree with that.
Daily quests have two main purposes like already pointed out in this thread:
- With daily quests players are encouraged / forced to login daily basis by the Developers.
- The Developers does not need to create new content when they can recycle the old one with repeatable quests.
Those who have not experienced a daily quest rat race might be okay with the system at the beginning. However, in the process of time doing the same quest over and over again is getting boring. At some point players stops to think that is this the reason why I play this game? Every day the playing session starts with the mandatory dailies which can consist of daily quests but maybe on top of that from other daily activities as well. Then after these mandatory tasks you finally have time to go play the game and do activities you want to (if you still have time).
This is why I hope developers (in general) to consider add as less as possible any daily activities to their games. They should trust more on their product and its content rather than adding cheap hooks. Some daily activities e.g. crafting timers are fine because those are also needed from economic point of view and not just to get people online everyday. Those are also very optional which is a good thing. Not everyone should or need to be a crafter and e.g. PvP players can have their stuff from loot drops and some dungeon crawlers buys their gear with ingame currency what they have looted from mobs. In addition, some people can make money via trading, gathering or market flipping and then buy the stuff they need. This is why daily activities like timed crafting are totally fine and what also makes them very different from traditional daily quests.
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With daily quests players are encouraged / forced to login daily basis by the Developers.
Encouraged yes. Only a bad daily would force a player to login. That is what makes it feel like a job.
The Developers does not need to create new content when they can recycle the old one with repeatable quests.
Absolutely not. I am not even sure where this came from. I haven't ever seen an MMO forego new content and instead just used dailies. I mean, it probably has happened and is a perfect example of what not to do.
Again. This thread wasn't, "What is the absolute worst type of Dailies, and lets use those ones". It is, "Your favorite dailies, or what you would like to see them as".
And as we are shown they prefer to use an integrated system that has 24 hour timers (Daily), and weekly (or monthly) maintenance on claims/cities. It's a good system.
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@Gothix said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
While it may take a day to craft leather, you may for example also steal that leather from someone else, or purchase it, or... (other sources of obtaining it, without cooldown)... You are not forced to do this daily activity, and you can still get that item in another ways.
But this is still not the point, as I said, the main point is psychological effect "daily quests" have on players.
Good points. The beauty of sandbox games is that no one needs to do crafting for example if they do dot want to. They can buy all their stuff and do only open world PvP or dungeons if that is what they want to do and they like the most.
This Psychological point of view is also true. Those players who have more experience of daily quests in other games can easily see red when someone mention or suggest dailies or especially daily quests.
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@tulukaruk said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
Tending to farm is a sandbox daily quest
It all depends on how we look at things. What you mentioned are exactly the dailies I'd like to see here.Additionally maybe some minor divine stuff daily as well to prove your devotion - like praying daily (as it will be a big part of the game, at least for my demon fighting for redemption).
Good points. It does seem the crux of the issue here is the way people view the word Daily/Daily Quest. Even though mechanically they could be exactly the same that extra word appears to trigger people, lol.
I like your idea as well. Could give a new simple blue print to build as well (For a little shrine in your house to pray at).
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@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
With daily quests players are encouraged / forced to login daily basis by the Developers.
Encouraged yes. Only a bad daily would force a player to login. That is what makes it feel like a job.
At first daily quests can feel supportive but with time those will turn to burden and feel like a job. Very basic pattern for daily quests.
The Developers does not need to create new content when they can recycle the old one with repeatable quests.
Absolutely not. I am not even sure where this came from. I haven't ever seen an MMO forego new content and instead just used dailies. I mean, it probably has happened and is a perfect example of what not to do.
So you can say "absolutly not" with assurance based on your unconsciousness? It is a very basic stuff to stretch the current content with help of daily quests (e.g. WoW, FF14, Archaege) so basically people are playing the same content over and over again. Those games which have not used daily quest system to repeat the current content are using at least the example number 1.
Daily quests are not implemented in mind to create interesting content for players which should be kept in mind.
Again. This thread wasn't, "What is the absolute worst type of Dailies, and lets use those ones". It is, "Your favorite dailies, or what you would like to see them as".
Perhaps you should check your original post before making this kind of argument.
"What are some games you think have done them right? What kind of daily quest would you like to see? Or they just an obstacle you would rather not be there?"
And as we are shown they prefer to use an integrated system that has 24 timers (Daily), and weekly (or monthly) maintenance on claims/cities. It's a good system.
These are not daily quests and I have not been against these like I have several times mentioned before.
Have you noticed that rarely any thread gets only positive approach to the topic and it is quite common to have differing opinions. Moreover, you do not have to take it as personal insult if I or anyone else presents critical arguments against the daily quests or systems used behind those.
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At first daily quests can feel supportive but with time those will turn to burden and feel like a job. Very basic pattern for daily quests.
You realize Fractured has dailies in the form of 24 hour timers, right? As well as a weekly (or monthly) in the form of maintenance for claims/cities.
So you can say "absolutly not" with assurance based on your unconsciousness? It is a very basic stuff to stretch the current content with help of daily quests (e.g. WoW, FF14, Archaege) so basically people are playing the same content over and over again. Those games which have not used daily quest system to repeat the current content are using at least the example number 1.
I am saying what you said is absolutely not what I said, or anyone else in this thread. Period. Then I moved on to saying I never seen a game do that. Then I acknowledged it is possible a game has but then pointed out even if one has that is a terrible idea. Hope that clarifies it for you.
You realize your examples prove you wrong though, right? Those games have dailies and they still have expansions (New Content). .
Again. This thread wasn't, "What is the absolute worst type of Dailies, and lets use those ones". It is, "Your favorite dailies, or what you would like to see them as".
Perhaps you should check your original post before making this kind of argument.
Look at the title. What does it say? I am using the words interchangeably because they are functionally exactly the same. If it makes you happy anytime I said Daily Quest just pretend I said Daily.
"What are some games you think have done them right? What kind of daily quest would you like to see? Or they just an obstacle you would rather not be there?"
And as we are shown they prefer to use an integrated system that has 24 timers (Daily), and weekly (or monthly) maintenance on claims/cities. It's a good system.
These are not daily quests and I have not been against these like I have several times mentioned before.
If your only argument is, "I don't like the word quest" then, okay just call them daily. Issue fixed!
Have you noticed that rarely any thread gets only positive approach to the topic and it is quite common to have differing opinions. Moreover, you do not have to take it as personal insult if I or anyone else presents critical arguments against the daily quests or systems used behind those.
I don't take it personally. I enjoy debating with people
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@Whisper I have not talked about Fractured I have talked about daily quests in general so there is no need to try push those timers in every answer. Those can be discussed separately though.
Answering with nonsense just shows where you stand with your arguments at the moment.
They have new content and I have not claimed otherwise. I bet you wanted to understand the number 2 example wrong so you could argue against it. Okay I will explain it to you more precisely, games uses daily quests so players will repeat the current content day after a day for a weeks and even months. Therefore, developers stretch the current content so they do not have to implement anything else before the next patch is released. If daily quests are not used for this purpose then those are just used to push people login daily. Daily quests are not content which are implemented from players perspective those are purely to drive developers intend.
Even you would like to call daily quest something else or compare those to daily activities, I have made it perfectly clear what I mean by daily quests. I have said that when I mention daily quests I refer to the original meaning back in time of WoW Burning Crusade. Blizzard implemented the original daily quest concept which others have copied since then.
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@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
@Whisper I have not talked about Fractured I have talked about daily quests in general so there is no need to try push those timers in every answer. Those can be discussed separately though.
But it is the answer to the question of this topic. It would be like arguing what 2+2 is. And you saying please stop saying the answer is 4.
Answering with nonsense just shows where you stand with your arguments at the moment.
Then let's keep it simple. I asked what peoples favorite dailies are. We learned fractured is using a 24 hour timer for dailies. People who support dailies like a system where it is integrated so it makes them (generally) happy. People who dislike daily quest are okay with it because it is not called a daily quest so it makes them (generally) happy.
It makes it a good system for both sides.
Even you would like to call daily quest something else or compare those to daily activities, I have made it perfectly clear what I mean by daily quests. I have said that when I mention daily quests I refer to the original meaning back in time of WoW Burning Crusade. Blizzard implemented the original daily quest concept which others have copied since then.
You can call dailies what you want. It doesn't change the fact a daily is something that happens daily. Fractured has mechanics that have a 24 hour timer which is... a daily.
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Double facepalm because one is simply not enough.
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@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
Double facepalm because one is simply not enough.Interesting point on the matter. You really brought your A+ game here.
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The Dragon's Dictionary, MMO Edition
daily
n.- any activity, task, or chore in an MMO whose design behooves the same player (as opposed to any interchangeable member of a guild et al) to perform the activity or task about once every 24 hours
quest
n.- [in a classical MMO] a task or chore given to a player by an NPC or other entity, which in most cases does not count any progress made before acquiring the quest, and which must be turned in to the same or another entity for credit
- [in a mobile or casual MMO] a task or chore automatically assigned to the player by the game's narrator, which may or may not count progress made before acquiring the quest and which usually requires the player to report that it is complete
daily quest
n.- a quest that can be repeated about 24 hours after the last time it was performed, usually measured starting from the last time it was turned in or resetting at midnight server time
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Could you link to the source for that? Not that it really changes the debate much unless the MMO Community came together to force definitions that explicitly state what can constitute a quest and what can not.
Hypothetically speaking even if there was a governing body that said, "A game must use an NPC or narrator for a mechanic to constitute a quest otherwise it is not a quest even if mechanically it is functioning exactly like one".
It wouldn't change the argument being made here because I am not saying, "An NPC MUST dictate we do these!".
In fact I have many times said the opposite when I keep repeatedly pointing out that the current system is integrated into the game with a 24 hour timer (Daily) and has claim/city maintenance (Weekly/Monthly). The word daily quest was never the crux of my argument.
So even if that situation existed it would just be me pointing out then sure, "Just change the word Daily quest to Daily like the title of this topic" since everything I suggested fits perfect into a daily and I never once mentioned an NPC giving quest, or a narrator.
But, I don't think that is the issue since I have many times suggested we could drop the word Daily Quest and just call it a Daily but this point keeps being made. I assume because people cannot argue daily doesn't means something happens once a day, and Fractured has content that happens daily.
So even though they have came out and specifically stated there is 24 hour content to encourage people to play daily now I have people trying to argue semantics about a word that is irrelevant to the points being made.
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@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
Not if they finish all the content and there is no longer a reason to login.
If you think the content what e.g. Fractured offers gathering, crafting, farming, building, trading, OWPvP, sieges, dungeons, asteroids, skill progressions, exploring... every single aspect of the game is better option to spend time in the game than daily quest in every way.
You realize Fractured has daily content as well that is locked behind 24 timelocks right? (We refer to that as dailies).
fractured will have 1200 skill/ranks to unlock. some behind karma walls (ie you have to be full good to get some; you have to be full bad to get others). it will have constant battles (even on the fury planet) which will cause gear to be stolen. i even assume they'll have a decay system for gear; i know they'll have a decay for houses, plot, buildings. then you add in the political game. i just don't see someone being "done" in a sandbox game as sandbox games aren't treadmill games where you have a defined ending (for an expansion or the 'game').
and daily content isn't daily quest. you are combining the two when they're separate. quest you seek out to do, whereas daily content is just there like killing rabbits for a days/week worth of food, getting enough materials to repair your buildings, farms, plot. Getting enough gear to handle being killed (pvp or npc); being looted or for climate differences. Then we'll have livestock which may have to be fed daily. That's the difference between daily quest and daily content.
Quest are more brainless chores. go kill 50 rats. bring this package to ms wastetime. escort ms wastetime to the outhouse. bring resources to the smith. those are daily quest we hate.
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@Jetah said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:
Not if they finish all the content and there is no longer a reason to login.
If you think the content what e.g. Fractured offers gathering, crafting, farming, building, trading, OWPvP, sieges, dungeons, asteroids, skill progressions, exploring... every single aspect of the game is better option to spend time in the game than daily quest in every way.
You realize Fractured has daily content as well that is locked behind 24 timelocks right? (We refer to that as dailies).
fractured will have 1200 skill/ranks to unlock. some behind karma walls (ie you have to be full good to get some; you have to be full bad to get others). it will have constant battles (even on the fury planet) which will cause gear to be stolen. i even assume they'll have a decay system for gear; i know they'll have a decay for houses, plot, buildings. then you add in the political game. i just don't see someone being "done" in a sandbox game as sandbox games aren't treadmill games where you have a defined ending (for an expansion or the 'game').
Gear currently has durability that causes it to break when it reaches zero. I agree the game has content other than it's dailies. I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought daily content should be the only content. Fractured has a lot more to offer than that. Daily content should never be the bread and butter of the game. It should be something to encourage daily logins
and daily content isn't daily quest. you are combining the two when they're separate. quest you seek out to do, whereas daily content is just there like killing rabbits for a days/week worth of food, getting enough materials to repair your buildings, farms, plot. Getting enough gear to handle being killed (pvp or npc); being looted or for climate differences. Then we'll have livestock which may have to be fed daily. That's the difference between daily quest and daily content.
If it makes you feel better drop the "Daily Quest" part. They are the same mechanically different in name only. Like the title of this thread points out I have no problem just calling it dailies.
Quest are more brainless chores. go kill 50 rats. bring this package to ms wastetime. escort ms wastetime to the outhouse. bring resources to the smith. those are daily quest we hate.
Brainless dailies are. It only takes a little work to integrate them into the game and make them more seamless.
I 100% agree with you that the daily quest you describe and have been describing is a horrible approach to a daily system. And I have not once advocated for any of the ideas you have suggested as the bad examples. I think anytime someone pointed out they didn't like daily quest because of a certain example I have pointed out that no one is suggesting using those bad examples.
I think the daily system Fractured has is the best approach. It is integrated into their world.
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[...] even if there was a governing body that said, "A game must use an NPC or narrator for a mechanic to constitute a quest otherwise it is not a quest even if mechanically it is functioning exactly like one".
This is the de facto standard use of the term "quest" in an RPG setting. If you don't activate it through some trigger entity - at the very least, activating with an announcement when you walk into an area and something questy is obviously present - then it's not called a quest.
Achievements, for instance, are effectively quests that are already "taken" at the start of the game, and can be completed as soon as their objectives are encountered. They are never called quests in standard parlance, even though literally the only difference is you never talked to an NPC to start it.
It wouldn't change the argument being made here [...] Fractured has content that happens daily.
Every online game in the world has repetitive content. Most entire games can be considered a daily / weekly / etc. Most entire games could be considered a quest, too ("get to the maximum level" etc. etc.)
But that would just be silly, so for the sake of cohesion, the only content generally counted as dailies and quests (and daily quests) are formalized checklists that are presented as such.
The following daily / weekly concepts are usually not counted when people talk about dailies / weeklies / et al:
- paying insurance or maintenance for house claims, guild taxes, etc.
- regular bidding for contested things (like market spots in ESO)
- resting XP
- seasons / leagues / monthly PVP brackets
- daily or otherwise restocking purchase offers
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If we are arguing semantics and also bringing RL in...
Then "daily" just means something that you do every day, and it in no way has any cool down tied to that activity.
You eat daily, but there is no cool down, so you can eat as much as often as you want (that not being healthy is another issue).
If one simply wants to convert a world to be used in a field (like gaming) than you have to consider what that word means for the "most" individuals in this field (in this case players).
"Daily" imho. for most players means a quest that you do 1 time per day, that has cool down of 24 hours.
Activities that you simply do every day in game, "most" players do not call dailies. When you hear daily, in your mind is something else.
