Instanced Dungeons/Raids
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with instanced dungeons there still might be players waiting at the exit to kill players that just fought the boss and rob them.
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@tulukaruk just put instanced dungeons in safe regions (arboreus). Give spell to teloport players around the planet (choosen city?)
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Instance dungeons are kinda cheating. I would say that only 10% of all dungeons should be instanced and that should only be the end boss. A fully populated dungeon makes people be social even if it isn't 100% advantageous it makes the game feel more alive. Killing a end boss should be a big thing, so killing a boss should only be allowed 1 time a week for each boss. Attempts should be limited as well, three attempts per week. Back when Everquest was going super strong I loved the extra excitement that random social encounters brought, and games like WoW lost that aspect 100% and it is sorely missed.
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@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Killing a end boss should be a big thing, so killing a boss should only be allowed 1 time a week for each boss. Attempts should be limited as well, three attempts per week.
I can already see how this is going to work. People kill the boss once, and for the rest of the week they kill other people who just killed the boss and rob the loot from them.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Give spell to teleport players around the planet (choosen city?)
You're right - that could even be one of the rewards for killing a boss
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@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
WoW lost that aspect 100% and it is sorely missed.
WoW lost it when the blizzard implented the LFG and LFR.
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@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Instance dungeons are kinda cheating. I would say that only 10% of all dungeons should be instanced and that should only be the end boss. A fully populated dungeon makes people be social even if it isn't 100% advantageous it makes the game feel more alive. Killing a end boss should be a big thing, so killing a boss should only be allowed 1 time a week for each boss. Attempts should be limited as well, three attempts per week. Back when Everquest was going super strong I loved the extra excitement that random social encounters brought, and games like WoW lost that aspect 100% and it is sorely missed.
It's not cheating, and I don't get why you say so. Givin the chance to kill the whole dungeon to a small group is way better than an open dungeon cleared h24, with 300-500players running around trying to find 1-2 mobs or boss camper spwon trying to zerg it and steal eachother. Dungeons shoud be no attempt limited, Raids should be 1 clear per week. Instanced thing are good to avoid pvp while doing pve. You can fully focus on one thing.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Instanced thing are good to avoid pvp while doing pve. You can fully focus on one thing.
You can still focus on PvE and avoid PvP in an open world if you manage to cooperate with others! Have one half guard you and watch your back while the other is busy with the PvE aspect, then either switch or pay your guards.
I can even quote you. *winks *@finland said in Enemies with immunity:
(...)If people wants to play solo they can go for a single player game not a MMO that should entice the cooperative gameplay(...)
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@logain said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Instanced thing are good to avoid pvp while doing pve. You can fully focus on one thing.
You can still focus on PvE and avoid PvP in an open world if you manage to cooperate with others! Have one half guard you and watch your back while the other is busy with the PvE aspect, then either switch or pay your guards.
I can even quote you. *winks *@finland said in Enemies with immunity:
(...)If people wants to play solo they can go for a single player game not a MMO that should entice the cooperative gameplay(...)
Nope, Albion Online had Rare spowns, World Boss and Dungeons Open World but there was no way. Those zone became Zerg vs Zerg. Player were just tagging the mobs to oneshot players around or those who were hiding till your party was low hp to one shot everyone and steal everything. Not funny at all! Instanced gives you immersive and relaxed dungeon experience. Open dungeon/boss were just PvP fight (zerg mostly) with some mobs around.
I can understand that gankers want to have nearly all players around in pvp on areas but you will never have there players that does not want it. Said that why don't you want to give some enjoyable content also for those that does not like your playstyle? I really don0t see eny problem. those who want open pvp will do it. those who want to do instanced things (dungoens/battlegrounds/arena) will to that. I think Open pvp players are scared about instanced things cause it steal players from open world. Well this means that players prefers instanced things otherwise everyone would play open world ;). Give things for everyone is what I say. You will never see high population by forcing players to only open world pvp.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Albion Online(...)
Albion Online is (contrarily to how Fractured is being promoted) heavily focused on grinding. This means you have to kill the same boss over and over again and there is end-game content because of progression, where people naturally start to stack.
We have been told this wouldn't be the case in Fractured, because you have neither progression (only very limited in power, more in variety), nor do you have to keep grinding a specific creature.@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)relaxed dungeon experience(...)
Now I wouldn't express it in such a harsh and blunt way, but I agree with the general gist of your statement in another thread, which fully applies here (tricky versus relaxed, needing players to safe-guard enticing cooperation and interaction in an MMORPG) as well:
@finland said in Enemies with immunity:
(...) blizzard has done it due the noobs around. Tricky things make childs cry! (...) People where feeling more usefull. "Shit they needs me for that boss!" And so on, you needed a big pool of players (...)
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Said that why don't you want to give some enjoyable content also for those that does not like your playstyle?
I do! As long as it doesn't negatively effect the complete design of the rest, while there's an alternative. Which unfortunately is the case here. You can have absolutely safe and laid back PvE only in an open world dungeon if you interact and cooperate with people who guard you in the meanwhile (that's the alternative) and you get rid of the countless botters that completely mess up the competition in PvP (that's the negative effect on the design of PvP).
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I don't see how instanced pvp or pve is going to be viable in an open world game with pvp.
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@jetah it's just an option for those who does not want to open pvp or do pvp during a dungoen/boss run.
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yes, the whole forum is setup to voice opinions. it's your opinion that the game has it, it's mine that it doesn't. only fact we can count on is when DS says what they're doing.
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@logain said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
This means you have to kill the same boss over and over again and there is end-game content because of progression, where people naturally start to stack.
The only end game of that game is PvP related and it's the challange to controll more terriotires than other guilds.
@logain said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Now I wouldn't express it in such a harsh and blunt way, but I agree with the general gist of your statement in another thread, which fully applies here (tricky versus relaxed, needing players to safe-guard enticing cooperation and interaction in an MMORPG) as well:
Yeas sorry, relaxed was not the right term. I think an instanced dungeon should be tricky but If you have to focus on only one thing is some how relaxing. Instanced dungeons/boss you focus only on pve. Battleground/arenas you focus only on PvP. Both could be triky. Managing both became just PvP.
@logain said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
You can have absolutely safe and laid back PvE only in an open world dungeon if you interact and cooperate with people who guard you in the meanwhile (that's the alternative) and you get rid of the countless botters that completely mess up the competition in PvP (that's the negative effect on the design of PvP).
Nope in open World/Dungeon it's just a question of numbers. You may go there with 6ppl defending you and another guild comes there with 100ppl and will harass you down. In Albion the top pvp guilds were monopolizing the dungeons/boss area. this happend not only for the grinding thing but also because dungeon where the places with the most players. If we get the same thing the game will be like Albion.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Instance dungeons are kinda cheating. I would say that only 10% of all dungeons should be instanced and that should only be the end boss. A fully populated dungeon makes people be social even if it isn't 100% advantageous it makes the game feel more alive. Killing a end boss should be a big thing, so killing a boss should only be allowed 1 time a week for each boss. Attempts should be limited as well, three attempts per week. Back when Everquest was going super strong I loved the extra excitement that random social encounters brought, and games like WoW lost that aspect 100% and it is sorely missed.
It's not cheating, and I don't get why you say so. Givin the chance to kill the whole dungeon to a small group is way better than an open dungeon cleared h24, with 300-500players running around trying to find 1-2 mobs or boss camper spwon trying to zerg it and steal eachother. Dungeons shoud be no attempt limited, Raids should be 1 clear per week. Instanced thing are good to avoid pvp while doing pve. You can fully focus on one thing.
If the game is set up in a good way then there will be plenty of dungeons or places of interest to hunt. If there is one place that has the best stuff and everyone ends up there then it becomes a social dilemma and one must use social skills to gain footing and come up with solutions. I never had trouble even when everyone seemed to be where I wanted to be. Honest to god social skills.
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@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
If the game is set up in a good way then there will be plenty of dungeons or places of interest to hunt.
10k players splitted in 1000 dungeons prolly better but I doubt devs will develop so many dungeons. Instanced dung could solve the problem abit. I'm not saying to remove open dungeons but just to develop both. They could create a portal near every open dungeon where the people could enter to join the instance. This way will be a player choice. Those who prefer instanced will enter the portal instead those who prefer the open world will go straight the road. The instanced dung could be ruled by: A reset every 1h after clearing it this way people will be motivated to move around and try out more than one dung spam. Forcing people to travel to the dungeon instead offering a system to queue up and get in.
If will be set like you wish there will be lots of zerg around and low population ;). Albion online got what you described and the dungeons or world boss are more PvP zone than PvE. 20-30 open dungeons are nothing on a single server with 10k?100k? 10k players splitted in 20-30 dungeons? it will be a pvp zerg. I would like to avoid a game with just big numbers rushing and spamming spells, killing loads and stealing everything (No sense games) . Instanced things keep it balanced and will bring some skill. Open world = big numbers (zerg). There's no skill at all, it's just an aoe spam and those geared better with more players will win the fight.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
If the game is set up in a good way then there will be plenty of dungeons or places of interest to hunt.
Open world = big numbers (zerg). There's no skill at all, it's just an aoe spam and those geared better with more players will win the fight.
I have to agree with finland here that experience tells us that zerging is just the way it goes with complete open world. I do enjoy open world, I prefer it but the draw back is pretty massive. I dont know if there is a way to subvert that other than having some instanced areas. Anyone have a good way?
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@miffi said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@mazikar said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
If the game is set up in a good way then there will be plenty of dungeons or places of interest to hunt.
Open world = big numbers (zerg). There's no skill at all, it's just an aoe spam and those geared better with more players will win the fight.
I have to agree with finland here that experience tells us that zerging is just the way it goes with complete open world. I do enjoy open world, I prefer it but the draw back is pretty massive. I dont know if there is a way to subvert that other than having some instanced areas. Anyone have a good way?
Good point. With open world dungeons we'll probably see large zergs AOE the whole place down, trivialising the content and unbalancing the economy. This is something the developers need to be really careful with.
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if mob hp and damage scale with nearby players then zergs might not work.
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@jetah antizerg mechanic = oneshot. Griefers hiding around can steal-loot. Open world pvp is fine but not dung or boss. Albion proved it ppl were tagging the mobs just to let the boss oneshot the orther guilds players. I know that you care just about gank some players around but about pve side I have more exp tho.
