Guilds and new players
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Fractured has made the claim of having little 'beginner' time, where you have to build up your character; that a beginner is almost the same as a player that's been on for some time.
This is true for stats.
But what about equipment?
A beginner hasn't got full mithril plate yet.
A beginner can't even get armour without citizenship of a city and money.
A beginner HAS to join a guild/party/city (will unclaimed resource nodes be accessible to anyone in the completed game? or will resource nodes only become useable when the relevant city is claimed?)These are all good things, I like that you have to either work at it by yourself or join a city, I like everything about the character progression.
However, and i don't know if they intend to change it, but to join a party or a guild, you have to find the guild master/party leader so that they can add you. to join a city you just need to find it and request citizenship/vote.
But my point is, you have to find them, which means you need to use the global messaging system and ask people(see my post on the value of information)Perhaps the starter cities could have a message board (do they already? i've never looked) where guild masters can leave directions for prospective members, and governors could leave directions for their cities.
Question: What crafting stations/utilities will the starting cities have in the completed game?
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Guilds
If anyone has seen the anime Grimgar, they will be familiar with a concept of guilds that doesn't seem to be prevalent these days, i think it was in some old fantasy/rpgs and is more in line with the trade guilds.
A lot of fantasy(games/tv/books) seem to have guilds as a collection of un-like people with like goals, while traditional trade guilds were collections of like people; jewellers guild, carpenters guild etc.
In this vein, as in Grimgar, the guilds were related to area of expertise/occupation, and not to moral/social like-mindedness.
For example; an adventuring party might contain a member/members of various guilds: a member of the healers guild, a member of the teleportaion guild, a member of the couriers guild, etc.I can't imagine any game mechanics related to this, simply an idea for guilds i suppose.
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@Mirgannel12 said in Guilds and new players:
he claim of having little 'beginner' time, where you have to build up your character; that a beginner is a
In short... Dynamite Studios lied. In reality there is no way to have a beginner on the same scale as a veteran in any game that has "depth" to it. Their thinking was that a horizontal leveling system would be quicker to achieve competitiveness instead of a vertical system.... as we know... after you get down to it.. there isn't all that much difference between horizontal vs vertical. Its still a distance traveled, just in a different direction is all.
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@Mirgannel12 said
Hi!
Your post makes a couple of really important points about early progression - leaving the starter town w/o decent gear can be fatal, but getting decent gear without a smelter or an enchanting table is hard to do. Whether those are planned for the starter cities in the finished game is not known (at least by me) at this point.The tutorial is so very basic right now! I'm hoping that by launch, there will be some re-working that gives a newbie a little more direction & some small rewards for completing quests/challenges. Those rewards might include an enchanted weapon or item of gear, to enable them to more easily get to the city of their chosen guild and make themselves a really good set.
But my point is, you have to find them, which means you need to use the global messaging system and ask people(see my post on the value of information)
Finding a guild in-game is not how I would recommend going about it, tbh. The forum Recruitment thread is better, and the discord server's guild recruitment thread probably the best for up-to-date info about active guilds.
Perhaps the starter cities could have a message board (do they already? i've never looked) where guild masters can leave directions for prospective members, and governors could leave directions for their cities.
I certainly hope that this is a planned feature! Problem is that right now, there's a lone, volunteer moderator for all the chats, and no way to mute/ignore trolls and d-bags. Until that situation changes (which I hope, please please @Prometheus, will be soon) adding another place for d-bags to make jerques of themselves probably isn't a good idea.
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just to nitpick a bit. Most players wont be wearing metal armor at all.
You could easily be a mage or an archer in a day, but a tank is a real investment.A currently unimplemented system is that skills will have 3(?) tiers.
(this next part is hear say and I hope it's implemented)
-Novice : players can mentor another player. the mentored player can use the skill load out of their mentor. The skills are lesser versions of the proficient tier skills (about 25% reduce damage)
-Proficient : skills gain thought knowledge or enemy's
-Master : Skills that are further studied by other quest and grinding (only a few skills can be mastered at a time, you can lower a skill back to proficient anytime to pick up new master skills)
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@Ostaff well, it doesn't seem to be so much that your character requires progression, but you have just entered a new world, so naturally you need to find your place in it, and equipment, which is good, no one would play if time spent playing didn't bring rewards.
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@PeachMcD there will however, always be people that just started playing the game, and, particularly for this game, where guilds/parties/cities are so important, these people will need something to go on as to how to find those, and not everyone wants to just ask a question of the entire world, some people like to know things without having to ask, so perhaps a guild register or something in the starting cities, that the tutorial directs you to when you finish it? or something like the militias? i dont actually know how those work, do you need to go to the starter cities to join them? or can you join anywhere?
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@maze that sounds really cool, you say hearsay? who say?
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@maze hey, you know the shadow empire link you have at the end of your posts? how do you do that?
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After character creation, you're ready to wear top equipment instead of follow any level requirement, and that's horizontal...
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@Mirgannel12 said
there will however, always be people that just started playing the game, and, particularly for this game, where guilds/parties/cities are so important, these people will need something to go on as to how to find those, and not everyone wants to just ask a question of the entire world, some people like to know things without having to ask, so perhaps a guild register or something in the starting cities, that the tutorial directs you to when you finish it? or something like the militias? i dont actually know how those work, do you need to go to the starter cities to join them? or can you join anywhere?
I agree that the tutorial needs to be more instructive. Right now, it tells you to do things w.o telling you HOW, and doesn't even reward you for figuring it out.
I feel VERY sorry for the players who jump in without checking out the forum or the wiki first. That really is flying totally blind. As someone who plays a lot of games, it's not something I'd consider doing, tbh. It's esp important to get a clue or two before you jump into a game where dying = losing all your equipment and loot.
That said, getting some clues about how to connect to guilds/citizenship/militias/parties into the tutorial seems obviously necessary and compassionate. Hope that will happen SOON, but with things evolving as quickly as they do in the development of a game, I understand why the tutorial is limited to basic mechanics that won't change (much?)
Meanwhile, experienced players who are online have been fielding questions in the chat as best we can, and Specter is awesome if you run into a glitch and need help. I only wish new players would take 5 minutes to read the FAQ so the chat isn't clogged with repeated explanations of basic stuff. A grrrrl gets tired of telling people how to make a campfire.
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I approve of this message
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Horizontal doesn't mean everyone is equal at any given moment.
Horizontal, here, means that everyone has an opportunity to invest effort to create whatever he wants right away, without grinding for levels first.
But you still need to put time and effort to create every single item (or group up with friends, gank someone and take his stuff, that works too).
Veteran can get ganked, all gear stolen, and loose everything, and during this time while he is naked, you as newbie will be stronger than him, if you are wearing armor, regardless of how long he is playing already.
Full loot MMO = constant theft, gear loss, gear recrafting, economy, consequences (unless ofc, you opt to play only on Arboreus PvE mode).
Not everyone will be equal at all times. Everyone will go up and down, depending on circumstances, strategies,...
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That's only partially true.
If talents weren't so effective, I would agree.
The reality right now is that a player with 60 talent points is completely on another level compared to someone with 20. That's not horizontal.The initial idea was that talents were there just to give an edge over other players, for those that were interested in min/maxing. Right now they are effectively a level system.
Base stats should be higher and talents should be less powerful to achieve an horizontal progression.
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@spoletta yes exactly
