Clarification on the target audience
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While we've gotten some nice design journals and we know the 'general classification' of Fractured as an open world MMORPG with a MOBA influence, most everybody seems to have a divergent idea on the general target audience for the game. As a result of this, the suggestions on what would be good or bad design for the game (and the expectations on the game) are very different (meaning that some people would have to be inevitably disappointed). Would it be possible for you to select some 'core design pillars' that clearly lay out a vision for a specific target audience @Prometheus (and mention how your specific features and functionality enforce that idea in future design journals)?
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Settling for a certain niche is certainly a bold move that would greatly improve the experience of those who fit the niche. Still, from a marketing perspective is not very wise to cut off everyone else unless you already have a strong resource flow, and your niche audience is large enough to support your project. It's pretty risky business. So it's better if you have your target set for yourself, but allow your project cater to a larger audience, at least a bit.
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This post confuses me somewhat. Is it not obvious that there is something designed into this game for everyone? A whole world for PVE'ers where they don't have to worry about being ganked. A whole world for PVP'ers where they can PK to their hearts content. Guild action for the empire builders. Crafting up the wazoo. Due to the setting catering to the fantasy crowd.
Did I miss anything?
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@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
This post confuses me somewhat. Is it not obvious that there is something designed into this game for everyone? A whole world for PVE'ers where they don't have to worry about being ganked. A whole world for PVP'ers where they can PK to their hearts content. Guild action for the empire builders. Crafting up the wazoo. Due to the setting catering to the fantasy crowd.
Did I miss anything?You can get ganked on the PvE world and that is exactly the problem from what I can see. There seem to be a fair amount of people here who think that Arboreus is fully PvE, or want it to be. The devs on the other hand have repeatedly stated that PvP and ganking will happen on Arboreus, it will just be harder to do. I have the feeling this is going to cause a lot of friction in the future. There's a real clash between PvE and PvP players going on in some threads right now.
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@darian said in Clarification on the target audience:
(...)Still, from a marketing perspective is not very wise to cut off everyone else unless you already have a strong resource flow, and your niche audience is large enough to support your project. (...)So it's better if you have your target set for yourself, but allow your project cater to a larger audience, at least a bit.
That can backfire quite drastically (if I interpreted your suggestion correctly as 'let people think they would enjoy the game till they paid'). Shroud of the Avatar is a classic example, they allowed the backers to drag them from their original vision to a more 'mass market' design, alienated most every original backer, got horrible Steam reviews and hardly anybody playing the game.
@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
A whole world for PVE'ers where they don't have to worry about being ganked.
That's already an example where you'd be wrong (and because it is so easy to be mislead here, you'd be rightfully unhappy when the game goes life and they stick with their current design).
Demons can invade the beastman world and kill anybody on sight there. It's not easy for them, but it is possible (and likely a 'sport' most PKers are going to aim for at the beginning of the game, since the beastman population makes the 'sore' kill that they strive for).
That point is exactly what I'm trying to highlight with my desire to set a clear vision everybody can see and judge right from the beginning.
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@logain I think I wasn't clear in my statement. You don't "let people think". You present game mechanics without tagging them. It is the labels that drive people off due to previous unsatisfying experiences with that label. But no two games are ever identical.
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I've warned Prometheus months ago that there's a good chance the beastmen world will actually become the main PvP hotspot because they'll be seen as carebears. Judging by the comments in the PK punishment thread, this is exactly what seems to be happening. Prometheus talked about some of the measures to make it harder for gankers to gank on Arboreus, but I would like more details about those measures now that it's clear that many gankers are going to make Arboreus their main target. Personally, I wish they would just turn off PvP completely on Arboreus. Fractured would be one of the first sandbox MMOs without forced PvP if players don't want it, giving them the whole PvE sandbox market to themselves. Instead, I got the feeling they rather make the same mistake every sandbox game has made before them, somehow expecting a different outcome.
So yeah, I agree with Logain that it's time for the devs to give us a clarification on the target audience. Is this a game where they want PvE and PvP players to co-exist on different planets, or do the devs envision a game where Beastmen are cattle for the Demons.
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ok ok if you want to get into a battle of semantics fine. I should have said a whole world dedicated to PVE where PVP COULD happen but would be difficult and not the main focus of activities there. OK are the semantics police happy now?
the overall point of the post (which apparently was obscured by my poor word choice) is that this game is being designed to appeal to all style of gamers unless you dislike the fantasy aspect or dislike the movement system.
ok looking forward to reading about what semantic mistakes I may have made this time.
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Niche games does not bring moneys ;). I hope on a game that suits all playstyles like wow has been in vanilla
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@vengu said in Clarification on the target audience:
I've warned Prometheus months ago that there's a good chance the beastmen world will actually become the main PvP hotspot because they'll be seen as carebears. Judging by the comments in the PK punishment thread, this is exactly what seems to be happening. Prometheus talked about some of the measures to make it harder for gankers to gank on Arboreus, but I would like more details about those measures now that it's clear that many gankers are going to make Arboreus their main target. Personally, I wish they would just turn off PvP completely on Arboreus. Fractured would be one of the first sandbox MMOs without forced PvP if players don't want it, giving them the whole PvE sandbox market to themselves. Instead, I got the feeling they rather make the same mistake every sandbox game has made before them, somehow expecting a different outcome.
So yeah, I agree with Logain that it's time for the devs to give us a clarification on the target audience. Is this a game where they want PvE and PvP players to co-exist on different planets, or do the devs envision a game where Beastmen are cattle for the Demons.
Yeah but don't forget that mostly all gankers loves to pk undefended ppls ;). Demons are allowed to fight themselfs but that will happen rarely.
- Losing things = play safe = better chance to win by attacking pvers
But hey we need to test something before get our conclusions
- Losing things = play safe = better chance to win by attacking pvers
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@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
OK are the semantics police happy now?
I am sorry, I didn't mean to go 'semantics police' on you/-r post! I was simply judging by the fact that plenty of other people seemed to be unaware of this and it made a massive difference to them knowing that they could actually be killed on a 'PvE planet' and that very action would be a design choice.
@finland said in Clarification on the target audience:
Niche games does not bring moneys ;). I hope on a game that suits all playstyles like wow has been in vanilla
I dare to strongly disagree. There's a bazillion 'mass market' games out there competing with you, so yes, while you have a larger target audience, they have more choice as well and are less likely to end up with your game. But fortunately the choice is not upon us
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Are you joking tho? Ihave tryed out many Mmorpg after 11 years of wow but no way
every mmo I try sucks or is not fun ;). Anywaythe best choice is give pvp to pvpers, pve to pvers and rp to rpers this way you will get an high player base
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well br guild just will come to play with us whe played old linkrealms the old game of that guys now ancious to see that one
i hope i will seee u al in game well
seee you italoPoa xD
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@finland said in Clarification on the target audience:
Niche games does not bring moneys ;). I hope on a game that suits all playstyles like wow has been in vanilla
Eve Online is niche and is doing great! I'm wanting to say PoE is niche also.
When I read the topic I thought the OP was referring to age groups.
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Eve is doing great cause it's the only one space based
and I don't think it's a niche game. Not going to talk about PoE cause I have no clue about that game. But keep making games for the same target is pointless by me.. there are billions mmo gankfest around (mostly dead? wondering why hahahaha:P).
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@finland said in Clarification on the target audience:
Eve is doing great cause it's the only one space based
and I don't think it's a niche game. Not going to talk about PoE cause I have no clue about that game. But keep making games for the same target is pointless by me.. there are billions mmo gankfest around (mostly dead? wondering why hahahaha:P).Eve is one of the very few that has passive skill training with no levels. Oh and Eve has pvp. I lost my hauler with 1.5b worth of goods in safe space!
I'd say it's mostly the people that can't handle failure (pvp death) that wants the game changed, the developers do that then they leave anyways. once people start to bail then others follow then a game is shut down.
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That kind of games makes the worst communities. I met so far many players from that game (cancers).
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@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
This post confuses me somewhat. Is it not obvious that there is something designed into this game for everyone? A whole world for PVE'ers where they don't have to worry about being ganked. A whole world for PVP'ers where they can PK to their hearts content. Guild action for the empire builders. Crafting up the wazoo. Due to the setting catering to the fantasy crowd.
Did I miss anything?^ This. Whilst others have stated that there are slight variances to this, predominately that the PvE planet will still have PvP, the onset of a buff will see that it will most likely be minimal. And if it isnt they can always increase the buff. Thats also what a beta is for right?
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@Miffi the point is that @Gibbx missed the fact that all pkers/gankers wanna go kill players on Arboreus ;). Yeah it's possible to kill there ;). Hard but possible. They don't care about the Demon Planet (lowless) because players mostly wants to kill players to hurt them e let them rage quit (so those who are going to play on demon planet are not so appetizing for pks). Best choice is to remove pvp on Arboreus so everyone gets what they want. a planet for fully pvp, one for fully non pvp, and one for both.
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@finland said in Clarification on the target audience:
@Miffi the point is that @Gibbx missed the fact that all pkers/gankers wanna go kill players on Arboreus ;). Yeas is possible to kill there ;). Hard but possible. They don't care about the demon platent lowless because players mostly wants to kill players to hurt them e let them rage quit (so those who are going to play on demon planet are not so appetizing for pks). best choice is to remove pvp on Arboreus so everyone gets what they want. a planet for fully pvp, one for fully non pvp, and one for both.
Exactly, and this is something that the devs need to understand. All those Demons who want to PK on Arboreus to "kill the carebears", are doing so with the intend to drive them out of the game. Unless the debuff is huge, like 90% stat reduction huge, it's not going to matter. If evil players have their stats debuffed by 5%, and Beastmen get buffed by 5%, that's not enough to make a difference. There's a reason the only hardcore PvP game out there still standing is EVE. Darkfall died like 2 times now, Albion is dying, Mortal Online is a corpse that doesn't know it's dead yet, Runescape shut down Darkscape, etc. Heck, LinkRealms, the game Prometheus worked on, apparently shut down today.
I feared that Arboreus would become a PK hotspot due to its carebear nature, and the comments I've seen the last few days certainly confirm that fear.
