Posts made by Tuoni

@twitchjackyace said in Economy Balance:

Or do we have some ideas within the community?

All three planets have at least partly different resources, which is a good starting point to create local (planet wide) economies. People now needs to travel to gather/trade resources from another planets if they want to make some good profit or get access to some rare crafting recipes.

I still hope that Fractured will focus even more to localize the economies. This can be done with smart placing of biomes and resources inside a planet. Every town does not need to have easy access to all resources from that planet, and resources should be placed enough far from each other so local economies and markets can born. This will create interesting traderoutes for merchants around the world and even between planets.

Crafting has also a big role how the local markets and economies will work. In Fractured basic gear crafting will most likely be relatively easy, because lost gear is intended to be replaced without huge efforts. I understand that, because it promotes people to take part for open world activities and not fear to loose their precious stuff. However, this may have also downside. If crafting items is too easy, and massproductive, this can easily lead overflood the markets. In Albion Online I even saw situations where refined materials and crafted gear pieces where multiple times cheaper than the resources (of that item). So it was impossible to make any profit with crafting or refining. So quality over quantity would be much better choise from economy and crafting point of view.

One challenging part is to create working item- and ingame currency sink to prevent inflation.

Ingame currency can be removed from the game with repairstation payments, different kind of taxes from town services (like marketplace fees), buying VIP time, buying cosmetics, offerings for gods, fast travels and with a lot of more micro transactions options..

We need also to get rid of items, so there can be room for new craftable goods. Once again start with preventing massproduction. Because we have full loot system, that gives the game a chance to trash small part of lootable stuff. Also adding possibility to salvage items back to resources (just portion what originally needed) helps. Maybe some items can not be repaired for ever and those will decay with time and eventually break. Maybe already crafted items can be combined with together to repair and/or craft a more powerfull/different item.

Moreover, it is important to keep all resources needed and part of advanced crafting as well. That way every resource is still valueable the whole lifetime of the game.

@Goemoe said in Economy Balance:

Since even travelling is nothing easily done in fractured, you can't just travel to a couple of cities to compare prizes and availability.

Unless.. there could be fast traveling, which is usually free (in other games) when traveling naked. This possibility is implemented so people can more easily group up with friends and guild members and does not need to run long distances after killed and full looted. Then people uses this feature for market checking.

@Goemoe said in Economy Balance:

@Sindariya said in Economy Balance:

The quest system is also not in yet.

We will have to wait for more information before I even start thinking of "balance".

Will there be a quest system at all? I have only read of the divine quests so far.

I guess quests have minor role in Fractured, but I still hope we have some polished ones with meaningful, lore-driven, long journey and rewarding content.

And tasks inside knowledge system are like small quests anyway.

Albion did few mistakes which affected negatively to economy. They created one main hub city Caerleon where they centralized almost everything from economy to fast traveling over the world. That slowly destroyed all other local economies. Now almost two years after this decisions, they are trying to fix this and making city/portal rework.

Second problem is biomes and resources what you can get from those. Game has 5 different biomes, 5 different resources and you can get 3/5 of those resources from one biome. In addition, those different biome types are too close to each other so you can basically get almost everything from almost everywhere. Its hard to create local economies and meaningful traderoutes with that kind of concept.

Albion's crafting is also too mass productive, which easily overfloods the markets. To prevent inflation games needs to implement more reasonable silver- and itemsinks to keep the economy healthy. After that supply and demand will cross better.

I will get back to Fractured situation later..

Well, there is no exact definition for religion, because it can construct from different kind of things. However, if there is a god or gods, those needs some kind of religion around them.. or has someone heard about a god without religion? Can that even exist?

@Gothix That is true.

This also opens up good players possibility to exploit system and make neutral players flagged as aggressive, when just running in AoE effect (made by neutral player) for example, and after that good players can attack neutral ones without consequences (karma loss/flagged murderer).

FF can be executed many ways, but in Fractured it can be quite complex when there are alignments and planets involved. I would really like to know how devs have planned to do this without hurting too much the game itself. Or what actually is their plan?

@Jetah interaction with environment is easy to fix, for example making mouse right click not to interact with anything. Same goes with holding mouse button down for auto-moving.

Do not make false arguments how many directions WASD can go in isometric games and I do not need to stick with that. So simple.

Finally I found discussion where Stefan, developer and founder of Albion Online, tells people why they do not go with WASD. I will copy here his posts and I will put the link for whole conversation if someone is interested (propably not, but I will put it anyway) to read that. I wanted to point this out, because there is a lot of same with SBI and DS. Both are small studios (SBI ain't anymore, but were back then) with limited resources, and both have kind of same vision of the movement and how it will affect to the combat.

Will there be an option for WASD movement for PC players?

"So just to be clear when you say you want WASD movement you want it like it is in Hotline Miami? So a digital input which gives you only 8 possible movement directions?"

"I can't even say, when and if we would implement it. The controls are optimised for a movement similar to Diablo, LOL. I understand that there are some people asking for it and we will evaluate here if it is a low hanging fruit we can add but nothing promised right now."

"The reason not to implement it is that it takes effort to implement and to maintain which cant be spent on other features, in particular if you consider that it is an inferior movement scheme. Someone playing with WASD would probably never kill someone playing with mouse movement. So despite the effort which is a key argument for a small team like ours it is also the general principle of implementing something that is not the best choice for our game and will "very likely" be only used by a minority. Small Sidenote: To the guys who are asking for WASD movement, eventually just play the game first and see how it feels?"

"I would add reason No 3 here:
When you say that having no WASD movement is a killer for you then I truly believe that even if we implement it you still wouldn't be happy about it cause it is not the right design choice for the game we are making, it just would feel wrong!
If you say that it's a killer for you that is ok for me as well. One thing I learned once we started this project is that I can't make everyone happy and instead we as a developer have to focus on our core concept. The feedback from the community is always very important to us, but in this case it does not fit into the whole movement concept."

"Reason 4 against WASD movement:
When we started Albion Online it was clear for us that there is a huge probability that we will release and have to shut down everything soon after cause we realise we can't survive. So when deciding about new features to implement: We always ask ourselves will this feature make a difference if we survive or not, will this feature significantly change the amount of people who will play the game."

"And in terms of the WASD movement is the answer NO, it is not a key feature we need. Instead we are putting all our focus on the core game mechanics with which we are still not satisfied. In other words: We can't afford to work on an optional movement control as long as the game is not great fun to play!"

"It is still a long time till then and a lot of things might happen and I never say never. I can also tell you once the game goes live things will get tougher for us and we will face completely new problems which have nothing to do with new features."

Kind regards,
Stefan

Link to WASD conversation in Albion

At least we know this much under here. I was wondering what that bestowed a Divine Blessing keeps inside?

"TEMPLE OFFERINGS
A Temple Offering is a monetary donation that can be performed once a day in the home of one of the Gods of Fractured.

Temple offerings are an effective – albeit expensive – way to change your Karma towards that of the God you’re donating to. Offerings given to Elysium, Tyros and Nelena have a positive effect on your Karma, while money pledged to the dreadful Babilis cause a heavy Karma loss. Donations to Neutral Gods such as Iridia and Galvanos instead have no impact on your moral stance.

Other than (possibly) changing your Karma, a Temple Offering increases the favor of the God towards you. If high enough, you might even get bestowed a Divine Blessing, or assigned a Divine Quest to carry out!

DIVINE QUESTS
Divine Quests are missions obtained at shrines and temples that must be completed by anyone who wishes to become the Champion of a God. Fulfilling them triggers changes to your Karma, pushing it towards the Alignment of the God in question.

By becoming the Champion of a God, you are granted a unique blessing in the form of a permanent status effect, plus the chance to use one or more Divine Abilities that don’t have to be memorized. The number and power of said abilities depend on the deity’s favor towards you and how well your current Karma matches the God’s one."

@Gothix said in Optional wasd movement?:

@Tuoni argument here is not to remove point to click in favor of WASD. The argument is to have both in same time, so players have an option to use any they like OR to use them both simultaneously (which I would personally prefer).

I know, that is why I said it will need a lot of resources to work with two moving options and balance those with together. That only is good enough reason to go with just one moving style.

I have used both moving styles so I do not have to promote the one I am more familiar with. Just from my experience click to move works better in isometric MMO games and WASD better almost in every other. Even click to move is old moving style it still works so damn good, why many isometric games still prefers that. Albion Online has only click to move system in use and it works so well that there is no need for another option. I remember how this same topic was discussed there during the beta test, but I do not remember why the devs were exactly againts implementing WASD. I will try to find the reasons.

It would be actually a good thing if devs here would open up a little bit why they are not going with WASD and what kind of challenges that would cause to them. Maybe that would make people more to understand the choise.

@Corben said in An option to NOT choose a deity?:

Re: Religions

Will there be an option to have no god?

Perhaps instead of blessings and divine spells there could be an engineering element added? Or perhaps something with the eclipse cycle?

How about put your "faith" on science and/or evolution?

@Jetah said in Optional wasd movement?:

When moving is with mouse, it leaves easier access to use abilities from keyboard. For example Q, W, E, R, T, Y, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Trying to use abilities with WASD is harder.

false. otherwise wow wouldn't have done it. WoW has 12 keybinds "1 through =", plus any additional you need, and uses WASD to move, plus moving the camera with the mouse. There's also modifiers with shift, alt, control so those 12 can be 84! while still using WASD to move and holding the rmb to move the camera!

False? If you use mouse to move with your right hand then you have your left hand totally free for abilities on keyboard.

Yes, in WoW you have more directions because moving camera is supporting WASD, but in Fractured moving is not like in WoW. You do not have that chance to turn camera and because of that you can only go 8 directions. Still waiting example of isometric game where you can have more directions in use with WASD.

@Jetah said in Optional wasd movement?:

@Tuoni said in Optional wasd movement?:

What valueable WASD moving systems brings on table what current click to move can not already handle?

controllers can be setup to play the game where disabled individuals would have access. if the game was on console one stick would be movement, it'd be no different in this situation.

I do not know what you mean by this, but the game is not designed for consoles.

@Althalus said in Skills from monsters:

@Tuoni so you'd rather pander to the people who think killing 10 more monsters might be a traumatic experience than to the people who are here because this is a game with new ideas? Sorry but if I wanted to play same care bear hand holding type game then I'd be playing WoW...

I already explained how it can be much more than just one task. What is the point to treat players unequally? And I am also a little bit confused what that has do with hand holding or care bearing..?

When moving is with mouse, it leaves easier access to use abilities from keyboard. For example Q, W, E, R, T, Y, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Trying to use abilities with WASD is harder.

DS is also small studio and working with two different control systems would not be reasonable. What I have understood it is not a simple task to implement WASD controls for isometric games and it will take time, and on top of that they need to balance that with click to move.

What valueable WASD moving systems brings on table what current click to move can not already handle?

@Jetah said in Optional wasd movement?:

@PedroBillyMattos said in Optional wasd movement?:

@Darian What an unnecessary douchy comment man... Genobee´s concearn is a valid one! There are many ways to give your opinion without beeing rude. Maybe the dificulty due to mouse movement is a nice feature to make Fractured a more competitive game prone to favouring the better skilled player! I actually agree with you =D

it's been a year.. somethings you just let die.

@Tuoni

I have seen both moving options in isometric games, but what it comes to similar games as Fractured or which have quite similar combat system, then click moving just feels more fluid option. Generally WASD moving is too angular in isometric games, but way better in games where you can change camera angle.

I personally support devs choise here. This click to move works really well and smooth in Albion Online and I am sure it will in Fractured too. And I do not personally want to see people moving with 45 or 90 degree angles. Moving will also effect to combat why it is better go just with one option.

how does moving a mouse feel more fluid when keeping the mouse over your target while letting your character move freely is more fluid? the animation of either movement method can be 8, 16 or even 32+ directions. WASD would function no differently than playing WoW with the keyboard while keeping the mouse fluid in movement.

With 'click to move' you can you can point where to move, but you can also keep auto-move button down (e.g. mouse's right button) and turn your character smoothly without angles. That gives the fluid feel. I am not sure, but I understood this auto-move was still missing in latest test phase.

WASD would function differently in isometric game where camera angle is locked and you can not turn your camera freely like in WoW. And what isometric games uses WASD and have 16 or 32 moving directions? I would like to know, because WASD limits for 8 directions if you can only use those keys for moving.

And it might not be just one task. Some people can be extremely luckly and get easy progression as whole and some can be really unlucky and stuggle with almost every task. That is why it might be better keep the system equal to everyone and avoid frustrations.

@Althalus I guess it can depend. If a beastman for example needs to travel to Tartaros kill certain monsters. Then need to kill multiple creatures can easily be crucial.

@devilbd said in Question about Basic Pledge Packs:

So I want to know will the game be with monthly subscriptions? Thanks in advance.

Well it depends.. There won't be monthly subscription you need to pay, but there will be optional subscription for premium. In Albion Online there is same kind of system, but because those premium benefits are so good, you are basically forced to upkeep that or fall behind of progression. I really hope Fractured won't follow that path and those benefits are calm.

I have seen both moving options in isometric games, but what it comes to similar games as Fractured or which have quite similar combat system, then click moving just feels more fluid option. Generally WASD moving is too angular in isometric games, but way better in games where you can change camera angle.

I personally support devs choise here. This click to move works really well and smooth in Albion Online and I am sure it will in Fractured too. And I do not personally want to see people moving with 45 or 90 degree angles. Moving will also effect to combat why it is better go just with one option.

@Althalus Interesting idea and I like where you goal with that, but it will place players in unequal position, which is a bad thing. Some people will have much more easier access to abilities than others. I am not sure if anyone wants to see that happening. We could see different unlocks with different races though.