Best posts made by Manaia

With the starter package, anything that isn't a mage can't kill a Willow Wisp. I think it's fine that there's variety. Just because one build can't solo something or dies too easily doesn't mean it's imbalanced or over powered. It means that the person hasn't found out why they're strong/weak and adjusted to accommodate.

If a starter mage build can solo anything, why be anything else?

@Razvan said in Concerns related to the attributes:

You were talking about guild transports.

To clarify, I was talking about transporting goods for the guild Whether personal mounts, guild mounts, or otherwise.

I highly dislike situations in which meta changes and your main becomes borderline useless, as it happened to my single target mdps in Albion.

This 100%! Patches that makes your character unplayable/useless is bad and hopefully never happens, unless their fixing unintended interactions/bugs/exploits of course. Though if people are playing for the TOP DAMAGE BUILD RAWR then their flavor of the month will change as skills are balanced/added/etc and they'll change with it. But for other people, as long as they're competitive/able to do what they want to do, those kinds of balancing tweaks shouldn't (hopefully?) affect them.

@Jetah said in Gobblin Enforcer can't be killed by solo mage:

@Manaia said in Gobblin Enforcer can't be killed by solo mage:

@Jetah said in Gobblin Enforcer can't be killed by solo mage:

@PedroBillyMattos said in Gobblin Enforcer can't be killed by solo mage:

@Jetah I was wearing the ragged cloth. But I wasn't in it's reach so that didn't matter and even in the mobs reach it couldn't solo kill me, the bandages healing worked fine. The problem I found was that my DPS was not hig enough to beat its healing.

sounds like a gear problem, not an 'in alpha, it's op' problem. if we're able to solo everything nearly naked then the game is doomed to fail.
get geared and try again.

What gear is there that increases caster dps?
His ragged clothes weren't the issue as he said, and he said it's a dps issue not a survival issue.
I've got 100% knowledge in everything and basically crafted everything (all 23 creatures) as well and don't know what you're talking about.

so you're telling me that gear doesn't increase stats, doesn't increase dps? it sounds to me like a level 5 wondering why they can't raid with the level 60's.
can it be overturned, yes. can it be as a mini-boss, yes.

That's 100% what I'm telling you.
So when you say "Get geared and try again" - please, let us know what you're talking about. Also, Goblin Enforcers are FAR from being a mini-boss. It sounds like you're a lurker and haven't actually played the Alpha 2 Test 1 fully; I'd recommend not giving incorrect advice to people if this is the case.

@Farlander said in Concerns related to the attributes:

Respecing, if available to everyone, has absolutely no bearing on another player.

You've clearly not read my response I made to Tuoni regarding mega guilds "forcing" you to respec to how they want. Or peer pressure amongst any group of friends to have someone fit the role they want. Tuoni basically said "I don't care, so it's not a real issue." Are you saying that too? That if it doesn't impact you it's not a real possibility?

@Eurav said in Concerns related to the attributes:

@Manaia Let me start by saying my only post in this thread is:

@Eurav said in Concerns related to the attributes:

Pretty sure Jacopo mentioned in the last Q&A (or maybe the one before that), that everyone will get a free Attribute Reset and that Attribute Reset will be content of the Cash Shop. There will be a decent cooldown on the usage of that though

We will be able to get additional Attribute Points through gear and the Talent Tree but I think they hard cap at 25?

The only concerns I currently have about the system would be wether it is too simple and that the Attribute Points one currently gets might be a bit too many.

And I voted in the poll for a "More sandbox based" game, so I don´t know how you came to the conclusion that I support your view

Whoops, agreed! I was trying to rush on a time sensitive thing and wanted to post this...rant, for lack of a better word.
I thought I used the verbiage agreed/opposed instead of agreed with him and agreed with me; and then took your concerns with the system whether it would be too simple or not. Tuoni also asked you to expand on what this meant and you didn't reply - we were both I guess unsure on the exact meaning. In the end though, I misread and that's my fault.

@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:

You've clearly not read my response I made to Tuoni regarding mega guilds "forcing" you to respec to how they want. Or peer pressure amongst any group of friends to have someone fit the role they want. Tuoni basically said "I don't care, so it's not a real issue." Are you saying that too? That if it doesn't impact you it's not a real possibility?

What I don´t really get about this, and what I think @Tuoni also already said... if there is peer pressure from the group / guild it does not matter if you have attribute respec or not. You can "respec" by simply creating a new character. So if a guild only wants "properly specced people" having Attribute Point resets or not does not matter, they can still pressure anyone for going for a good specced character... If anything it makes it easier to respec, so that you can join the guild you want without having to throw away all the progress you made with your first character.

That was my suggestion to him, he can make an alt for the purposes of respecing. That doesn't impact the main character that was created, whether the individual character cares about said character vs a blank slate is up to them.

Coming back to the poll, I don´t like it. The poll seems laid out to "trick" people into picking the "More RPG based" option. Character choices, immersion, consistency... are important, and they can exist in a "More sandbox based" game as well as in a "More RPG based" game.

The intent wasn't to trick, the intent was to focus on two different genres and parts of their core.
I broke it down to RPG and Sandbox; I did not mention Sandbox MMORPG or MMORPG. Let's use one of the most popular Sandbox game: Minecraft. Minecraft vanilla has no skill system, you can literally be as flexible as you want for the job that needs to be done. The most that needs to be done is craft and equip the gear and you're good. While you can have RPG elements in Minecraft, it's not built around that. There are no alts in Minecraft, so it's important to have that flexibility as the game would be limited otherwise.

I have seen you arguing about the ability to respec multiple times a day / respeccing to specific situations and that that would kill that the joice of Attribute Points matters, that it would kill immersion and I totally agree. I don't think anyone argued for having that.

I want to have Attribute Resets, but in a way that it does not destroy the game. So I think the one we get for free at the start is good, because nobody knows what he is doing then and would probably like to reset later at some point and I also think we need respecs later on. I think getting one respec for every significant patch could be an option, or just having it in the Cash Shop with a long enough cool down like two months e.g.. Then they could ofc also have a limited time of usage, so that you can´t store / collect them and "abuse" them. Although that would probably be a very minimal problem, to "abuse" that mechanic every six months or so :D. You could of course also have a limit of how often you can respec your character. There are many ways to prevent a "daily / situational respec".

Agreed, the one respec would be fine since it's not a mechanic of normal gameplay...if that makes sense. And I've mentioned that I'm also fine with cash shops providing it. My views of the cash shops is it breaks the fourth wall of immersion anyway, so that's fine - it also provides more income to maintain/develop future content.

I think having the option to reset the Attribute Points in Fractured is pretty important. As people already have said, it is important if specific playstyles get nerfed, or you just want to change your playstyle to something else, because you got sick of your old one. I think creating a new character in that case would not be an option for many people. The devs already said that gathering knowledge about skills will surely take multiple months. Having to throw away all that progress and create a new character (I am sure some people would not have problems with that, but I think most would.), suck it up that I can't change my playstyle or maybe even quitting the game seem like rather bad options to me.

This boils down to personal preference too I'd suppose. I'm not one to make alts, if I do they generally only serve the purpose of supporting my main. Other people love alts and the leveling process, in here it'd be knowledge gathering. They obviously wouldn't have this issue. It may take multiple months to learn everything, yes, but how long will it take to learn the ~8 skills you're going to be using that "class" for? Probably a weekend at most? It took me two days to learn all the skills available in the latest test. That's with making a 5x5 plot, running back and forth to meet friends, and gathering significantly more materials than I should have. When the game is live, if it came to a point where I made a new character for a new "class" then I'd have gear already made and enchanted too, which would make the grind a lot easier once combat starts.

I think we'd agree on a lot of things on this issue, we just haven't had the chance to address each other about it

@Tuoni Yeah, there was a lot of information there! Sorry!

• There were some dailies (fishing, I remember) implemented in TBC and others implemented in WotLK, but the daily boom was in MoP and those were the way to gain reputation instead of doing the grinds. They've changed since then, though when the MASSIVE amounts of dailies were put in, it was for that.
  *LFG/LFR was a necessary evil I think; still was bad for the social aspect of the game.
• Garrison stuff - no need for any more discussion here
• WoW Classic I was in a highly competitive guild on the Dragonmaw US server, we had Ragnaros first kill. At least one priest was required to have divine spirit, one paladin required blessing of kings, no shadow priests allowed (they had to respec holy to raid), and so on. Other competitive guilds were the same; some even requiring their priests to be dwarves for Fear Ward.
• When the QoL of faction changes came out, a lot of competitive Alliance Guilds rerolled to Horde because their racials were better. This through off the faction balance even more than it was. It severely crippled Dragonmaw Alliance's side to maintain competitive raiders. All this for a QoL change for faction changes.

Regarding all builds being the same/pretty much the same, it's very boring for me. I've played Diablo 3 competitively for several seasons and the funnest part for me is a fresh level 70 and filling in the gear slots before you become class clone #564632 with all the same gear, stat priorities, abilities, etc. People use the builds and have no idea why and how, just because it's the popular build. Some builds are just outright NOT fun, but because they're good people (including myself) play them to remain competitive.

We have to remember that build swaps offers guilds a lot of flexibility what it comes for raiding and is for sure used a LOT of more to good rather than bad.

Requiring a priest to have divine spirit was good for 39 people and possibly bad for one

If we want the demons play this game, then the answer is yes. Usually those players are the most hardcore and competitive players.

Wouldn't the most hardcore and competitive players know how the stats work and interact and would be the ones who LEAST need the hand holding of attribute rerolls? I can't remember if it was you or someone else who said that if players make the mistake and not understand the stats then they should be able to reroll them otherwise might quit the game in frustration.

META is the thing especially in Tartaros and I would not want to try take that away from them.

The meta will still exist, and it will exist in variants of str/dex/int based builds. There shouldn't be a need to reroll attributes for this. And the competitive scene will be better imo without this because the people with more insight and understanding to the game will have the better character builds.

To wrap this up, as I'm getting older I'm less competitive, but I'm still competitive and generally don't like to play games casually. If I'm looking at this from a casual point of view, I can see how most reasons about free rerolls being a lot more appealing.

Edit: I do play games less competitively and here and there, like Hearthstone. I use my own meme decks and try to get them to work, that's how I do that competitively - it's mostly against myself to see if I can get something to work. Playing the same 54% win-rate decks is also boring, and right now it's boring when 70% or more are the same Demon Hunter decks

@Razvan said in Concerns related to the attributes:

What competitive scene do you guys believe Fractured will have?

This will be a good idea for a new thread with a poll!

• I'd imagine there will be a strong end-game PvP; whether from mechanics or hosted by the players themselves. Like having arena matches where players give the governing town an entry fee.
• There will be world bosses and I believe dungeons were in the kickstarter, so that'll likely be the PvE end game. It really all depends on how that's done though to really say how that will shape the competitive scene. Obviously speed running/killing the dungeons/bosses will be most effective though - but if it's not spamming it wouldn't be required.
• Depending on how world bosses are looted, it will probably be highly contested by multiple guilds and will have both PvE and PvP interactions during those contested periods of time where the boss is fought over.
• There will very much likely be a trade and wealth end-game and competitive scene within that aspect as well. This will probably be more dominant with Beastmen since they don't have to worry about PvP very often, if at all. Just competing with resources with other players.

As for meta... with the number of skills and defensive mechanics we'll have, I doubt there's going to be anything other than vague archetype builds for casual pve and small scale pvp.

I'm confident there will be online sources that have popular builds, and great deal of the playerbase will gravitate towards that once it's known. This is done in pretty much any multiplayer game; especially games with stats and gear. They'll just Google "Fractured int demon" or something. Until the online sources are known though, yeah there will be general playing around with builds. I'm just as confident that builds will be out and available before the game's even released though.

For zvz, guilds will have their own quite strict builds as far as items and abilities are concerned...

Leading people to be "forced into a build" - things I've mentioned in this thread
If there are free attribute changes, it'll be easier to "force" the stat archetype as well. Changing skills just requires the knowledge and a camp fire, less imposing on the player.

...because the shotcaller needs to know what each group can do and their cooldowns, but it doesn't really matter if a particular DPS has 16 or 21INT.

Sounds like this is a case where changing stats isn't as important or needed?

Also, it may very well depend if the DPS has 16 or 21 INT, some spells use the primary attribute as cooldown reduction. There will be optimal breakpoints, which means once the breakpoint is hit you might be able to enchant your gear with another stat instead! Or you might need the highest INT AND all the cooldown reduction gear.

Killteams and hardcore pve are probably the only areas where people would follow hot builds religiously and respec as much as they can.

"respeccing" is not the same as changing attributes, to me. Respec is short for respecialization, which is changing your abilities, I 100% agree with your statement! Specialization doesn't change your characters being - they can't change what they're "born" (character creation) with. I'm not sure if you consider "respeccing" to include stats or not though. In Dungeons and Dragons it'd be wizards memorizing different spells (like the campfire in Fractured); in WoW it'd be changing the talent trees, in Diablo 3 it'd be changing your skills/passives and Paragon points. None of these change your class and/or attribute distribution though.