Posts made by Kralith

@Harleyyelrah very good summary about the happenings and the state of the game, including the views of the players.

I think it maybe wasn't the right time to give free the features of flagging criminal & bounty hunting/jails. I also would have like to see, that militias would become more meaningful this test and that we can test the first steps of Sieges.
With a more meaningful Militia system, all PVPers would have been in Militias and would have found probably enough PVP all over the world, without bothering the PVE-only-player, as long they don't have their save place that is called Arboreus, where they can test all the PVE stuff in freedom. Don't get me wrong, even i maybe will play in release on Arboreus, i wouldn't do in test phases, since i am thinking it is important to test PVP, even it means, i am dying again and again.

But well, we have now the criminal/jail system, so we need to deal with.
First step is to set us all by ourself in the position of the future Syndesia player, no matter if we are fullPVE or FullPVP. That means, we need to see on that feature with the eyes of the middle player who like both, but don't want to be in a ongoing fight wherever they walk.

If i look with the eyes of such player to the thing, i see the Prison as a good possibility to bring justice against criminal activities. But there should be a criminal activity before i can bring justice. What do i care if the evil character has 100 or 10000 Karma, if he isn't doing anything bad at the moment? I want to have an evidence that he was stealing/destroying/killing lately.

Also i see the Prison as a good feature, that the Criminal gets this special fear, that he can get locked if he can be caught. For the kind of fear to probably get killed, some PVE Player will play on this planet, including me. So, why not giving the same "fear feature" to the PVP player who decide to be evil? If he can't deal with getting locked, he should stay on Tartaros later on

As for the length of prison time, i think we all (PVP and PVE player) agreeing, that it needs to get adjusted, especially the cause of time to spend. But as long it is just based on Karma, it will be unfair in many cases. Someone who murdered around to get 10000 Karma and was already sitting in jail and is doing nothing bad after it, should not get in jail again for the same, just because he still has this bad Karma. And i am also against to reset Karma, when someone was going into jail, because it would be highly abusable then. "Oh come, send me to the jail, i pay the 2k gold and will be almost good again."
As i suggested before, find another counter for the jail time, thats based on the actual performed criminal act. 1 kill of a good one = 1 jail time counter.

So, if we fade out the heated argueing in this thread, we have already very good suggestions and feedback here. And if i take a closer view, nobody of them is against the prison itself, but against the actual reason. Well, i think, that can easy be fixed by Devs, since it isn't a totally change, but just adjustment and additional database entry and query of already existing values.

I have a small idea coming in my mind, after reading @Alexian s post:

What would be, if the Criminal is getting "jailed" just in the list? He can walk around and doing PVE stuff, but lose the ability to fight, kill and loot someone for the said time, until the time is over or he payed the bail?

Btw. i am thinking, the young player status should protect you from looting by non allowed people.
Means, you should be still able to activate group/guild looting for reason of dying while an expedition, but not be able to get looted by anyone else.

@Honeybadgerr That is abusing an opportunity of game technique to bypass the young player protection.
They do it, because they can't kill you in reason of your young player status, so they force you get killed in reason of too many KOs.

To perform PVP this way, is the cheapest you can do. It is just used to gank people you should not be able to gank.
They just do it, because they have fun to go for the weakest instead of searching real opponents.
And even if Prometheus is fixing this lack, they will find a new one to annoy the weakest player.
They just sit in their Voice-Channel and laugh their ass off, that they annoyed you and maybe made you quit. Thats their honey on the bread. We won't change such people, even the Devs find ways to restrict them.

Btw. for that reason Dynamight decided to implement a justice system with bounty hunting and jailing the criminals. But that gives at the moment a heated debatting about it, because honest PVP player get a too high punishment for things that was meant to be a system against gankers.

@GamerSeuss said in Unable to build a 4x4 Patio (or any 4x4 Blueprint) on a 4x4 plot in town....why?:

I know the 5x5 plot option isn't working, or at least wasn't

Still not working, i tried to place the 5x5 before i placed your 4x4.

We was testing with personal plots inside a city and i faced an interesting problem with the House Icons as a Governor.
If i place a personal plot inside city boarder, i get the usual house symbol and the house symbol for removing a plot again (finally removable house plots, thank you Prometheus ).

But the both symbols stayed persistent, even i step out of the claim, after Dary claimed the plot.
While the first symbol does nothing, except not vanishing, i could watch his claim management window:

I figured out, it happened, because i was still standing in his claim, at the moment he claimed it, so that the UI seems to have no trigger anymore to hide the symbols, since the unclaimed plot isn't there anymore.
At a newly created unclaimed plot, the hiding of this symbols works as intended, when i step in and out.

@Ostaff interesting, yesterday we had grass in our tavern too, when i logged in today, it was gone.

@joop yeah we experienced same behaviour, but somehow just realized after we unlocked more and it was droped back to normal behaviour.
In fact around rank 1-4 we seemed to get always excellent stuff from the special workshops, me per example with my mage staff, but when we was going to a higher rank, it droped back to normal behaviour, means now i usually produce just good quality, as it should be.

Did you see that insane high exceptional chance somewhere in the tooltip?

@Prometheus a maybe important information about the behaviour, i played yesterday for 8 hours straight without any relogin. And i didn‘t got any problems, but i was just walking between Valhalla Atrium and Vale of Shadows. So i think the behaviour is depending on the amount of areas your client load into the memory and doesn‘t give the space free without a relog.

We have already a Thread about, would be nice if you put your feedback there

@GamerSeuss said in Bounty Hunting & Jails - Official Feedback Thread:

The game can work. The game does need a middle ground arena, and Syndesia is that middleground, so we have to come together and figure out what works best.

Exactly this forget the raging people here.

We are on the playground for both sides and we really should stop to disputing about „i have more knowledge about games than you“ and instead talking like grown up people to find a good middle way.

@Nekrage & @trik
It doesn‘t help in any kind if you both start insulting each other.
@Nekrage Trik may be true about that you simply don‘t like the design, you said it several times.
@trik and Nekrage did made good points, he even said, he would play a Sheriff entirely, if the system fits.

However. What we need is a solution, where each side can live with.
In this case neither a „Drop the whole Prison“ nor a „Make it more punishing“ helps, like some people just droped it in this thread in an one-liner.

I am someone of the PVE Fraction and even i say it is too high and too unfair, because the Punishing is depending alone on the karma amount not on the real act. I would almost say, that they should unbind it totally from karma, but set it on the act itself.

You stealed something and you get a punishment, you will go in jail for an hour maybe. You murdered someone, you get lets say 4 hours, for each you killed with a max timer of 24.
Once you was in jail, your timer is getting resettet.

Without namecalling, it would mean for some criminals, which we all know well, they would go directly to the jail for 24 hours, because they was ganking for hours the poor grandparents on the streets, while other criminals can just walk around without fearing a jailtime, because they didn‘t do anything bad.

Also, theft should have an expiration, while murdering should not have.

And just to clarify once again, we talk about criminals, about doing crimes without a reason (Players fun isn‘t a valid reason).
As crimes should not count valid area conflicts and killing people who step into your controlled area. But going to other areas and kill people just for fun, is a crime, as long there is not a siege and you are involved.

@Ostaff ohh i had similar, but i always thought i just moved out from the finishing process.
But it happened so less, that i didn't noticed it could be a problem, just sometimes i wondered like "oh i can't add another one, i already addes all i needed?".
But yeah, from time to time the building didn't started after filling up all and you have to click manually.

@fr4me01 said in Patch Log - v.a.2.5.0f + Jail System Info:

...fail to understand the problem. But I guess most carebears would to protect "their domain" from evil pvp people trying to pvp in a pvp game.

Wow, harsh words to conclude we wouldn't understand a problem, just in reason of short answers and without a good conversation about. Slow yourself boy.
Even if i am a carebear, i don't "protect my domain...", because "my domain" will be most likely not Syndesia, but Arboreus, where YOU PVPer have nothing to say.
I think you don't understand, that we are in a game where PVP and PVE will exist beside each other. And you maybe don't understand, that we are on Syndesia, the planet for both sides. For your "pvp in a pvp game" you will have later on Tartaros, there you can PVP without consequences.
Maybe read about the game design, before you are doing fast conclusions.

How about you flip the situation and BOUNTY HUNTERS who were on the job and killed don't get to respawn unless they pay for AT LEAST a full 24 hours? Is that still such a wonderful idea

I already said in the feedback thread about, that i think the 24 hours are way too much.
Maybe read there, it is more the place for discussing about this topic.

@Nekrage i can agree in parts with you, as you point out important things.
I have some thoughst about your points, maybe also some questions that just can answer Jacopo in an live Q&A.

For first, we need to point out, that we just speak about Syndesia.
The Jail-System would not be a thing at Tartaros, since there are all evil and not for Arboreus, since there will an evil one not be able to stay.

So we are in a world, where PVE and PVP hits each other.
In Future, the evil ones (aka Demons) will not be at Syndesia for a long time and the rest is just figthing in smalls wars all around the planet to get areas controlled.
So when we talk about someone who want to turn into an evil one, it will be a criminal, a player who likes to steal and to murder no matter if there is any honor in it.
If you decide to be honorless, there should be a punishment.
Different to be just involved in area fights with others, means if you invade an controlled area or declare a siege.
At this point i am a bit disappointed, since the "controlling an area" is litterally not existing. You have no indicator if an intruder took your stuff from your area or someone who is belonging to you. But well, thats a different point i think.

Whats about to point out the PVP options in general, the need for a real goal for being in a militia?
I think most people just don't chose a militia, because they just don't see a sense in it.
Being a criminal sounds way more interesting, because it sounds like you can be an outlaw, can PVP whenever you want and killing whoever you want. What a fun to kill over and over the small girl on the green field, just because she was too far out of her house.

If we had a real and understandable sense for Militias and a benefit from it, then there wouldn't be a need for being a criminal, except you really want to be bad.
But if you decide to be a real cool bad ass criminal, you should be aware, that it can lead to some serious consequences.

All in all, it will need from the side of the studio a good description, that people being able to know, what they can expect.

Now lets look to the jail time.
I know that system from Salem the Game.
If you did something criminal, you could go to the stocks. No matter if you just was stealing by accident, because you didn't noticed the chest was on a claim or if you murdered someone, you left a scent and if this someone found, you could get placed on the stocks for 24 hours. Visible for each in the maintown. People could whip you or throw tomatoes on you. Earliest release time was after 4 hours and you had to pay gold. And your character was the whole time "online". In a permadeath game.
Well, short side view. Back to Fractured.
You can be immediately free, if you pay yourself out or a friend is doing that. So it isn't an absolute excluding the player.
Also if you watched the Criminals, how they ganked around every people who came by, they surely collected this way thousands of gold coins, so it should be an easy thing to pay the prison to get released.

The Reason for Jail...
Yes, in this case you are absolutely right and Harley also pointed that out, it can't be fair, if someone just flagged hisself and get killed after he steps out of the town and need to sit in jail for 24 hours, even he didn't anything bad.
But we should maybe think about, that maybe not the jail system, aka prison is the problem here, but the criminal flag itself. Being a RED shouldn't mean in general you are eligible for sending into the jail. But a criminal act should make you valid for a bounty hunter.
You steal something out of a box, you maybe will be catchable for an hour or if you are far enough from the area where the theft was performed.
You killed a innocent child playing in front of the house, you will be catchable for 24 hours.
You killed another RED one, you will be maybe just catchable for 10 Minutes.
You will be not catchable, if you fight in a declared war as a militia member and you was fighting with another militia.
Well, it was just some examples, but i guess you got what i mean.

Is it fair?
I think yes.
Your argument about "oh they get taken out" is literally the fear they have to live with.
Alone walking good aligned player need to run, if they see REDs, because they get killed and lose all their stuff they was collecting for hours.
Alone walking bad aligned and flagged player need to run, not to go to jail and lose hours of gameplay.
Sounds quite fair for me, just the amount needs to be a bit more adjusted.

Sheriffs
I think yes, for that it should be a restriction, that not everyone will be one.
Maybe combine it with a malus, i am just not quite sure, what exactly it could be, to prevent everyone from being a Sheriff.
To bind it on the amount of killed criminals, i think isn't the right way. Because does it mean meanwhile the criminal can't get jailed? I think that would be wrong.
I think everyone should be able to be a "Sheriff", the criminal already has the benefit from it to be able to see who can jail you and who not and for this reason being able to avoid you.
As i said, some kind of malus would prevent, that all people just chose to be a Bounty-Hunter.

"No PVP, i left the server"-Crying
Just to say, before people started to figure out about the Bounty Hunting System and REDs was killing just for fun each one they found, a very good amount of PVE player already droped the game, because it was unplayble in their eyes and not worth it to play a game, where they can't do a shit except to sit in the border of a town and doing nothing.
Here we are, both sides sound frustrated. And both sides will get the bill next week, when the plots going poof and nobody is online anymore to test the system entirely.

Now i am coming. A totally PVP Noob, a pacifist even ingame/incharacter, a carebear and a flower picker. And what should i say about these "Meh, i am leaving"s?
Everyone, if PVE or PVP who is crying now and leaving the game is in my eyes a wimp, a pussy, a child that didn't got their icecream from Mommy.
Instead of being constructive and helping the Dev-Team with feedback, they just cry at our shoulder and in our ear, that the system is so bad and they drop the game... and they don't realize it is a fucking Alpha, and who else, if not THEY are able to be involved in shaping the game with THEIR feedback about, what is going wrong.

And at the end there are just the "Nekrages" and "Kraliths" (no exclusive calling, just an example for PVP side and PVE side) who say something, after they had "fun" for some days to argue to their people please to test this damn game to make it better.

Okay, i think enough rage, otherwise the novell would become a serie.

@Jahlon said in Bounty Hunting & Jails - Official Feedback Thread:

With that said, do I think that 24-48 hours of jail time is an acceptable number? No. I think that is insane. I think at most it should be 10 minutes (1k negative karma) to 100 minutes (10,000) negative karma.

While the rest of your written words are quite accurate, these values are absolutely too low.
10-100 Minutes, well that will lead to never payed money to get out of the jail, they just would wait the 10 Minutes or eat something, go to bath or just play a twink, till the 100 minutes are over. While you call 24-48 hours insane, is your suggested time just a joke, then you can drop the jail totally, it would not have any worth.
I also believe 24hours minimum is too much, but i would start at least at 12 hours.
Otherwise it would not be any real punishment and criminal PVPer would just laugh about that.

@Prometheus Sadly no, since we was on tour and i was not thinking about, but if it hits again, i will make a screenshot.

I think to have a bounty hunting system on Syndesia is a great idea in general.
Because thats a possibility to bring justice to the evil ones.
PVP should be lawful on Syndesia, if someone decide just to gank every good aligned player who is just outside to pick up flowers, should count with consquences.
Without it, we would lose for this test all the PVE player, because they can't step out of towns anymore without getting killed almost instant. For reason, that we have PVP player who think ganking is a nice and funny thing.

If the criminal is getting catched by a bounty hunter, he has to take a break or have to pay for. That means, if you decide to be evil, you have to count for, that you get taken out for a while. Fair enough, because if you decide to annoy others, you should also have an "annoyement".
If the time he has to be in jail or the money he has to pay to step out of the jail is fair enough, thats the task to figure out this (and maybe next) test.

My concerns/suggestions about the actual system:

• time is maybe too high and will keep PVP player away, since the consequence is quite hard
• maybe depending the amount of money on the time they have to spend
• maybe giving PVP player PVP only zones, where they can PVP each other without fear of Bounty-Hunting, that they can test the PVP fights without fear to get jailed. Means as long we don't have Tartaros, create an "Tartaros" Arena for unlawful PVP. (got answered by @Shivashanti i forgot about, you don't need to be a criminal to have good PVP)

@Lemdul81 said in Patch Log - v.a.2.5.0f + Jail System Info:

So....no pvp this alpha? Got it.

Just because it has consequences, if you are evil?
Or just because you are forced just to make PVP with other REDs instead of just killing people who are obvisiouly non PVP player, and you have to be same careful outside in the world as every PVE player has to be, because of open PVP all around.
Without the Bounty Hunting, the game wouldn't be playable for all PVE player anymore, because they would never reach the PVE hotspots without getting ganked again and again. So it is just fair, if they have a possibility to get justice.

If you think, it prevents PVP at all, please make a suggestion for PVP only areas, where Bounty Hunting don't work, but that PVE player can avoid to step in.

@argottt said in Oranthul is missing:

Oranthul is missing

Maybe the Easter Bunny was hiding it behind a bush.

@argottt said in Oranthul is missing:

Restarted the game, now it says my ID 493 is allready logged in the world.

That happens, if the server is thinking, you are still online, maybe Specter can kick you from the server, but mostly it is solved, when you just wait some minutes, till the server kicked you in reason for timeout.

Hail all the Sheriffs!