Evolution of "The Kill" in MMO PvP
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In classic Everquest, it was a matter of spamming dispel/pummice, to strip buffs, while funneling DPS into a single target.
In World of Warcraft, it was a combination of interrupting and using hard crowd control such as polymorph and fear on healers, while focusing DPS into another target, to land a kill.
Modern MOBA games use a combination of the above WoW-style PvP, with displacement mechanics and "ultimate" synergy, also known as the "Wombo combo" (using multiple ults together to win a team-fight)
What's the perfect balance? What kind of kill threshholds do we want to see in Fractured? What sort of play should land a kill?
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No class/build should ever be so OMGWTFBBQCHICKEN powerful that it doesn't need teammates.
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there's a hardline with balancing CC. I hate not having a chance to defend myself when jumped. I guess it comes down to how much CC and TTK for me.
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I’d prefer no 1v3 op’ness but I would like it to be a competitive who can use the better skill quicker kind of thing
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What I see lacking from most MMORPGs to make the combat mechanics fun and an easy fix for boring mechanics is the ability to undo debuffs like stun, snare, freeze, etc. in a single skill. Most RPGs make what I would call a mistake, simply making these "un-debuff" skills worth long CD (which makes it quite weak), making these undebuff skills only undebuff certain CCs like only stun, and only creating at most one of these skills. Having, lets say, two medium length skills that do other things and do undebuffing makes a much more fluid gameplay. For anyone who played something like Drakensang Online back in the days when PVP was not screwed up before the management team changed and set forth the power creep you should know what I mean.
Personally I like RPGs where you CAN 1v3 (of course the 3 are probably not as skilled as you) if you're good while someone else playing the same class (well there isn't a class in Fractured so lets say using similar skills) can't do the same. Basically, a game where there is a high skill ceiling and for those who actually mastered it (top 0.01%) you can pull off stunning feats like a 1v3 (not because of some stupid item build and steamrolling your opponents like you do in mobas like LOL giving you a matchup advantage etc.).
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What I hate the most is the so called stunlock, where you just get stunned by a wave of certain skills by 1 or multiple people and you can't do anything.
Solution could be to get a stun immunity for a short time after the 1st stun wears off. So then you actually still have a chance to fight back.
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Sure would be nice if more mmos were based on actual skill and not merely on spamming lucky hits until your stun proc'd so you could do your memorized 0 to kill skill order!
Blade & Soul is the only MMO I've ever played where I liked PVP in it. The arena PVP felt just like a fighting game. Sure it had some of the boring traits of other fighting games like "once this combo starts you literally cannot escape it so its basically one long waste of time move" but until one of those starts it actually feels responsive and not just like watching ants put buckets on their heads and slam into each other.
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@evolgrinz said in Evolution of "The Kill" in MMO PvP:
What I hate the most is the so called stunlock, where you just get stunned by a wave of certain skills by 1 or multiple people and you can't do anything.
Solution could be to get a stun immunity for a short time after the 1st stun wears off. So then you actually still have a chance to fight back.@fibs said in Evolution of "The Kill" in MMO PvP:
Sure would be nice if more mmos were based on actual skill and not merely on spamming lucky hits until your stun proc'd so you could do your memorized 0 to kill skill order!
Blade & Soul is the only MMO I've ever played where I liked PVP in it. The arena PVP felt just like a fighting game. Sure it had some of the boring traits of other fighting games like "once this combo starts you literally cannot escape it so its basically one long waste of time move" but until one of those starts it actually feels responsive and not just like watching ants put buckets on their heads and slam into each other.
I hate to be rude, but it sounds like neither of you have played an MMO or a MOBA at a very high level.
"Stunlock" only exists in the mind. It's not a real thing, and never has been. People who complained about this in World of Warcraft were casuals, who never wanted to change their gear or build, or playstyle in order to adapt. If you're not willing to adapt, and look for counters, you're always going to get abused by people who are willing to do whatever it takes to win.
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@dulu said in Evolution of "The Kill" in MMO PvP:
"Stunlock" only exists in the mind. It's not a real thing, and never has been. People who complained about this in World of Warcraft were casuals, who never wanted to change their gear or build, or playstyle in order to adapt. If you're not willing to adapt, and look for counters, you're always going to get abused by people who are willing to do whatever it takes to win.
so the video of a naked rogue stunlocking a max level player was an imagined thing?
Yep those are imaginary video's there. Now these are old video's and could have been done before the trinket or the trinket was used.
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#1 That Rogue isn't naked. He's using a technique called "Reskinning", which has been around forever. Making a character model on your end LOOK different. Enemies still see him in his gear, but on his screen he can look however he wants. You can look at his hotbar, and still see he has his gear on, and his buff bar to see he has trinkets and other procs from weapons.
#2 None of the victims in these awful videos are stunlocked. They are just simply very bad. Take note of the mage who is inflicted with two bleed effects, garrotte and rupture (lol?), and he apparently tries to chase the rogue in near melee range, as he bleeds to death. He doesn't ice-block, he doesn't run away... he just panics and runs like a chicken with his head cut off and bleeds to death. This is a perfect example of why these "Casual" videos can't be used to demonstrate anything balance related. Your average player is complete gutter trash at PvP.
#3 Every class in WoW has a counter to stun. Or at least a survival cooldown. Classic Rogues were opportunistic predators. Crying about stunlock in 2018 is pathetic, and shows an unwillingness to learn how to PvP.
#4 Those videos piss me off for the single fact there isn't one Druid in Ironforge? Not a single level 44+ who can instant cast Fairy Fire on the Rogue? (Un-resistable by the way) He'd die to guards from a single instant cast. Trash Alliance. But no, it's much easier to cry.
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@dulu said in Evolution of "The Kill" in MMO PvP:
#1 That Rogue isn't naked. He's using a technique called "Reskinning", which has been around forever. Making a character model on your end LOOK different. Enemies still see him in his gear, but on his screen he can look however he wants. You can look at his hotbar, and still see he has his gear on, and his buff bar to see he has trinkets and other procs from weapons.
#2 None of the victims in these awful videos are stunlocked. They are just simply very bad. Take note of the mage who is inflicted with two bleed effects, garrotte and rupture (lol?), and he apparently tries to chase the rogue in near melee range, as he bleeds to death. He doesn't ice-block, he doesn't run away... he just panics and runs like a chicken with his head cut off and bleeds to death. This is a perfect example of why these "Casual" videos can't be used to demonstrate anything balance related. Your average player is complete gutter trash at PvP.
#3 Every class in WoW has a counter to stun. Or at least a survival cooldown. Classic Rogues were opportunistic predators. Crying about stunlock in 2018 is pathetic, and shows an unwillingness to learn how to PvP.
#4 Those videos piss me off for the single fact there isn't one Druid in Ironforge? Not a single level 44+ who can instant cast Fairy Fire on the Rogue? (Un-resistable by the way) He'd die to guards from a single instant cast. Trash Alliance. But no, it's much easier to cry.
video 2 is naked. actually they do have a tabard on.
