Suggestion for combat
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After seeing the first gameplay video I made a suggestion to add a sprint ability to the game linked to endurence bar or energy bar. Here is the tread about sprint: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/1686/gameplay-suggestion-after-seeing-vid?page=1
Now that player collision is confirmed in the latest Q&A I would like to suggest to add to combat that you do increased dmg if you attack someone from the back (and little increased dmg if you attack from the rear).
If you cc someone then to get the most out of the cc you would prefer to move around your target (player collision prefent to to move through your target) to get max damage. To get there quick you probably use sprint to get there asap.
This will add more skill to the gameplay.
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@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
Now that player collision is confirmed in the latest Q&A I would like to suggest to add to combat that you do increased dmg if you attack someone from the back (and little increased dmg if you attack from the rear).
The players who attack from the backline are already advantaged does not need to increase the damage
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@benseine just like Finland said, there is Assasin class in the game,which gives you stealth skills such as backstab, assasinate...
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I know, I played this way vs assassins and they where a pain to deal with. Right now assassins have their full potential from withever direction they attack you. I say limit that to the backside. The character movement is mouseclick, so one mouseclick and your character has turned around 180 degrees, while the assassin has to walk around you, because of player collision, to get his max damage. It's just a matter of balance. I say let ppl only do maximum damage from the back, that way only the ppl who manage to spent most time at the rear or back of the oponent do the most dmg, and are therefore the better players.
You can also balance assassins to have weapons that are better for penetrating heavy armor and weapons that are more efffective at slicing up clothies. Make it more situational.
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Also rangers wouldn't be able to take advantage of that.
Short stun on someone, and then run 100 yards around him to get to his back xD meanwhile stun ends 50 times over
Rangers would need something else then, for example, attacking from higher ground gives you damage bonus.
Not really sure if Fractured will have higher grounds though... or at least many of those, maps seamed relatively flat.
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Flank and back attacks in a realtime game are horrible - they give a tremendous advantage to cheaters who doctor their connections to exploit lag, as codified in Dark Souls, a game where PVP revolves almost entirely around backstabs and cheaters are ubiquitous.
It also isn't intuitive in a click-to-move, wherein you don't really determine your character's orientation as opposed to just their position. I don't identify what direction you're facing as a relevant concept in MMOs in general and click-to-moves in particular, and would really hate to be screwed on this awkward mechanic under the highly questionable euphemism of "skilled gameplay".
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What I described is pretty much the pvp in Age of Conan, still hands down the most fun pvp I ever had in a mmorpg and I played it for years. I recently played Albion Online, mainly as a tank, and I absolutely think it's possible in point and click movement.
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@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
What I described is pretty much the pvp in Age of Conan, still hands down the most fun pvp I ever had in a mmorpg and I played it for years. I recently played Albion Online, mainly as a tank, and I absolutely think it's possible in point and click movement.
Absolutely it's possible. I just think it's a thoroughly terrible idea
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@gothix nope it works perfectly fine for rangers. If the game is balanced melee will have gapclosers. If they use gapclosers on rangers, rangers need to cc and make distance again. Goes like that in most games, right? But now you move away in certain direction, but not too far because then you have less time to shoot in the back
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@fibs said in Suggestion for combat:
@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
What I described is pretty much the pvp in Age of Conan, still hands down the most fun pvp I ever had in a mmorpg and I played it for years. I recently played Albion Online, mainly as a tank, and I absolutely think it's possible in point and click movement.
Absolutely it's possible. I just think it's a thoroughly terrible idea
What is the terrible difference between fighting from any direction and it doesn't matter, or the same fighting, but from a certain direction, the backside, you get extra dmg?
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I like the idea but not necessarily for every build all the time. Maybe it could be something you can spec for with talents.
@gothix said in Suggestion for combat:
Also rangers wouldn't be able to take advantage of that.
You can if you're shooting someone that's running away. "Backstab" damage + a fear effect with a ranged weapon could be really good.
@fibs said in Suggestion for combat:
It also isn't intuitive in a click-to-move, wherein you don't really determine your character's orientation as opposed to just their position. I don't identify what direction you're facing as a relevant concept in MMOs in general and click-to-moves in particular
Orientation is a major factor in one of the biggest click to move games, Dota, to the extent that
would be a lot of fun.
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@target said in Suggestion for combat:
Orientation is a major factor in one of the biggest click to move games, Dota, to the extent that
would be a lot of fun.I'm not at all surprised that the codifier of a MOBA, the second-least professional game genre after indie horror, has added this to its long list of completely idiotic design choices.
What is the terrible difference between fighting from any direction and it doesn't matter, or the same fighting, but from a certain direction, the backside, you get extra dmg?
As I already said: online realtime games that have flanking & backstabbing become games of lag exploitation. This also happens with throws. Grand Chase and Dark Souls both largely devolved into being based solely on who has the most advantageous lag because of these mechanics, with only a minority of fights between equally-laggy people showing any heed to actual skill. (This wouldn't affect shitty MOBAs and other "esports" because top-level play is done thru personal attendance at an organized event where there is little to no lag to speak of.)
It also just plain doesn't fit; it shouldn't be a feature in an all-range game as opposed to a game where, say, the camera is always behind your character, e.g. "forwards" and "backwards" are coherent concepts to begin with. It shouldn't matter what direction my character is facing, and I shouldn't have to wait for the daft tart I'm controlling to turn around because "you can't attack an enemy you're not facing". I'm absolutely sick of pretend-meta RC car physics; make a playable game, thanks.
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@fibs well I played with extra dmg from back and rear attacks in Age of Conan for years and never encountered the problem you described. And the developper Funcom is not know for making flawless games, boy did Age of Conan have lots of problems. So maybe the problem is just ib Dark Soul and the other game you described.
And ofc it matters what direction for character is facing in a game with isometric view. In Albion Online on my tank I jumped toward my enemies, aiming with my mouse on wich side of my enemies I would land, so after landing I would aim with my club in what direction i want to use my 20 meter knockback, to knock them into a group of elite mobs.
I don't know why the remark about character turn time is directed at me though. I didn't brought it up and if it is upto me the turn time is as fast as you can click with your mouse.
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@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
And ofc it matters what direction for character is facing in a game with isometric view. In Albion Online on my tank I jumped toward my enemies, aiming with my mouse on wich side of my enemies I would land, so after landing I would aim with my club in what direction i want to use my 20 meter knockback, to knock them into a group of elite mobs.
In that situation, the direction the characters are facing doesn't matter - their relative position matters. You weren't prevented from performing your club attack because "you have to face your target before attacking". That's entirely consistent with my argument so far.
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@fibs said in Suggestion for combat:
@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
And ofc it matters what direction for character is facing in a game with isometric view. In Albion Online on my tank I jumped toward my enemies, aiming with my mouse on wich side of my enemies I would land, so after landing I would aim with my club in what direction i want to use my 20 meter knockback, to knock them into a group of elite mobs.
In that situation, the direction the characters are facing doesn't matter - their relative position matters. You weren't prevented from performing your club attack because "you have to face your target before attacking". That's entirely consistent with my argument so far.
Ah ok, well we have a misunderstanding I think. I don't say you have to face him directly before you attack. Just be at his backside and then attack. I would prefer if the game makes my character attack my target as soon as I activate the ability.
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@benseine said in Suggestion for combat:
Ah ok, well we have a misunderstanding I think. I don't say you have to face him directly before you attack. Just be at his backside and then attack. I would prefer if the game makes my character attack my target as soon as I activate the ability.
It shouldn't matter whether you're behind him or in front of him (in terms of both of you standing in the same position, the only difference being what direction your victim is facing.)
It's simply not intuitive to notice or respond to the direction characters are facing in any game where you don't give directional input to move. For instance, if I press LEFT on a direction pad, I immediately understand that my character will be moving left and thus facing to the left - wherever he ends up. Similarly, if I turn left in an FPS, then I know my character will be facing however much more to the left than before - wherever he ends up. In these scenarios, you input a direction to move, and your position is derived from that.
But in a click-to-move, you input a position to move, and your direction is derived from that. When I move my character, he might be facing any which way depending on where he was first and on how the pathfinder seeks to that position; I didn't and often can't tell him to face a particular one. Therefore, the gameplay should not care as much what direction the character is facing in contrast to their position, because players input position first and direction second (if at all.)
But my main beef with the idea is simply that it bogs a game down and makes it less fun to do anything. It can even make a game blatantly unplayable. In World of Warcraft (which may or may not have backstab damage hell if I know), your character does not automatically turn to face things you target, not even gradually or slowly; you have to manually turn the idiot around before inputting an attack, or all you get is a message saying you can't attack because you're not facing your target. This is one of many reasons I only played WoW for a day or two (free trial).
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Well there are bad ways to do it ofc and good was. I'm here to test the game and make sure the idiotic sounding WoW problem won't happen here
backstabbing bonus or not
