Stance on RNG Loot Boxes
-
@gothix for me a style similar to overwatch is fine. as it's only cosmetic and you constantly obtain them by playing. I hate the ones with a stat increase like in Tera.
I'd prefer to see an item to buy than to gamble.
-
Well belgium just declared loot boxes illegal anyways so that might spread to other countries
-
Well It's up to the people to care on their money. None force them to buy lootbox
-
@ioracle said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
Well belgium just declared loot boxes illegal anyways so that might spread to other countries
oh, nice! I hope it does. though it's going to be sad for Overwatch to lose those boxes.
-
Really though, it is just free cosmetics. Whatever.
-
@chrightt i agree. but if one or more countries make those boxes illegal then it's possible for the whole system to change. often times it's cheaper to have 1 build than multiple.
-
@jetah said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
@chrightt i agree. but if one or more countries make those boxes illegal then it's possible for the whole system to change. often times it's cheaper to have 1 build than multiple.
I believe the recent ban on lootbox was a ban for purchasing lootboxes with money (especially for games where you can trade the items from the lootboxes, not games where the items are untradable). If this isn't the case (do correct me and show me some citations please) then I guess people are just stupid.
Honestly they're tackling lootboxes only because of idiots run their big mouths about "RNG" and "lootboxes" and what not. If people had half a brain cell, card packs are pretty much loot boxes. Drops from creatures are damn lootboxes opened for you. Lootboxes are basically drops except you click the boxes to open. Therefore, it really only makes sense to ban lootboxes that are bought with irl money.
-
@chrightt that's interesting. but yeah, hell even lottery is lootbox.
-
@jetah lootbox are not controlled by Countries. If they could have a sales percentage I'm sure they would legalize them.
-
IIRC loot boxes were banned due to MMO rating (not only adults play MMOs) and you need to be adult to be allowed to gamble. And it was decided loot boxes are gambling (which they really are).
I'm not sure what would be the case with adult rated MMO, but imho, for MMO (or any game) of lower rating, where not only adults play, it is right thing to not allow loot boxes (since they ARE gambling).
This is why loot boxes that you buy with real money were banned, cause it is gambling with real money, and kids are not allowed to do that.
In game virtual currency was not considered real money, if there was no re selling of cosmetics purchased for real money for in game currency.
This is why if developer wants to put RNG boxes in game, they need to make sure boxes are purchased with in game currency, and that cosmetics purchased with real cash can not be re sold for in game currency.
At least in that country where such decision was made.
-
As long as the contents of the boxes are purely cosmetic and have no ill effect on the mechanics of the game, more power to them. If their cosmetic change has any adverse effects on the performance of gameplay of other players, that poses a small hidden problem.
An example would be that a cape or whatever could be a woodland camouflage pattern and would making hiding near trees and shrubbery a very sought after effect. Messing with people's heads with the use of cosmetic items is still Pay 2 Win.
I could also be completely psychotic and wrong on several levels.
-
@jetah said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
2 isn't a problem if the cosmetic funds are going to content funds. Bungie created Eververse as a means to trickle rewards to users when in between content patches (or DLC) and made the claim "that use these new items to bolster the service provided by our live team for another full year.". The idea was to take the income and use it on content.
and really the only time i've seen cosmetic sales provide more cosmetics is when the game is dying.
Sure, exceptions are possible, but the rule is that, if [A] brings in revenue, the devs will focus at [A]
1 why would you have a non-rng lootbox.. how.. isn't that just an item in a box, like a gift wrap?
You have a lootbox from which you choose from. Is this a gift wrapped? Yes
2 Fractured is a sandbox but they have raids and dungeons so it's both.
Good point
-
@phaethonas what happens when the remaining revenue is lost because x, y and z where ignored? i don't consider an rng lootbox rng when it's an item gift wrapped.
-
@jetah said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
@phaethonas what happens when the remaining revenue is lost because x, y and z where ignored?
This is exactly the problem. The game falls apart. But in the process, the dev company is still making money by just catering to the people who care, or even are addicted, to cosmetic lootboxes.
What I am saying is not theoretical. What I am saying is very much happening as we speak. From personal experience I will say that this is happening at SWTOR.
Now, there are examples of successful cosmetic cash shop, there is no doubt about that. The problem though doesn't go away.
Let's make a hypothesis;
Fractured is b2p with a cosmetic cash shop (that much is a fact).
months. Unless Dynamight gathers all new content into an expansion, which will also be b2p (see GW2 model), then this new content will be either; a) not delivered or b) delivered for free.If not delivered, then (once more as you correctly implied) the game will have a problem. If delivered for free though, where will the revenue come from in order to make this content and keep the servers running? The answer is; "Cosmetic cash shop".
So, in this case, the cosmetic cash shop is bringing revenue, but the new content is not. The cosmetic cash shop will have to pay; a) the new content, b) server upkeep, c) new cosmetic items, which if not introduced, the game will stop making revenue.
Now here is the thing. In the short term it is better to focus at the new cosmetic items and forget about the new pve content. In the long term, the game may survive without new pve content, or rather with minimal pve content (see SWTOR's case). In that case the game is in a limbo, dying, but not dead, so it is still making money from mostly the cosmetic cash shop.
The devs will have to be very very very very [...] very very very very dedicated to their game in order not to fall into that trap. Admittedly an indie studio is more likely to succeed at not falling into that trap, than a multinational like EA/Bioware (SWTOR's case).
That though doesn't guarantee that the indie dev company will succeed.
This is why, probably the best solution for Fractured, considering the correction you made (that pvers will need new content), is the GW2 model.
Both the cosmetic cash shop will bring in revenue, as well as the new pve content.
And that brings two questions.
- Will there be new pve content? Is anything regarding that, announced explicitly?
- Is it clear, absolutely clear, if possible expansions, will be b2p (GW2 model)? Or will this new content be provided for free?
i don't consider an rng lootbox rng when it's an item gift wrapped.
OK.
Call it what you like.
After all, the whole point is, that many people don't want an RNG element into the cosmetic cash shop.
-
@finland I think if you read some news you will understand what @Jetah is talking about. Belgium banned lootboxes a few days ago because lootboxes were considered "gambling". To "legalize" is to imply it is currently illegal, which it is not for most countries. read what @Gothix wrote above for some idea too.
Also, gambling, RNG these type of stuff are honestly just classifications and how people want to determine what they really mean. After all, humans made up these words ourselves. Why were MTG cards not banned? They came in cards packs, which is practically gambling. Kids could buy them legally too and sell the cards if they want to. Now some digital pixel worth nothing except looking more badass than your fellow gamer comes into online gaming in the form of digital lootboxes and countries start to freak out and want to ban them. Logic at its finest by the less intelligent portion of our race. Kids buying these lootboxes with real money? Of course that is legal if their parents allow it. However, if they do buy these lootboxes without their parents consent it would be perfectly same as buying virtual gems to make your character stronger. Lootboxes don't make the purchase any more illegal because the kid spent money that he wasn't allowed to spend. Now if we think about it, this could happen to MTG cards too. Some kid steals cash out his/her mom's wallet and buys MTG card packs. Why isn't MTG illegal yet? As far as I'm concerned it is one of the most p2w games there is. Honestly, there isn't any point speculating about lootboxes at this point, and as per usual the government loves making rules for things they don't even comprehend.
-
Everyone can hate on RNG Loot Boxes but we can't ignore the fact that it's the most profitable item to the developers after launch
-
It's illegal!
-
@avalon in certain countries.
-
@jetah said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
developers never mention it's a 1% chance to get it.
That's right - the chance to get each item should be clearly shown or equal for each item.
Also there should be no crap items in RNG boxes.
-
@tulukaruk said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
Also there should be no crap items in RNG boxes.
A paper note that says "Better luck with next RNG box".
